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How did December 25 Become Christmas?: The tradition is that the pagans were keeping December 25 from Babylon and that Christians started to say that Jesus' birthday was December 25 starting in the fourth century AD after Constantine made Christianity a legal religion and it was good to take in the Pagans by taking their holiday and making it the birthday of Jesus. I was taught this, we find it in most books, articles , documentaries and sermons. This understanding came from scholars studying the best material available to them a few hundred years ago. However, there have been more discoveries made that those scholars did not have available. We need to update our information. The problem from the story we have all grown up with and have been taught is that there are some fairly new historical discoveries. I just learned about it for the first time in the journal "Bible Review" (it was a sister journal to Biblical Archaeology Review but now they are again just one journal) in either the year 2001, 2002 or 2003 in the November-December edition. Since then there have been a few articles in Biblical Archaeology Review that I've seen, and on some of the newer programs on the history channel referring to this and have been starting to hear it in sermons and a short article about it in either the Adventist Review or one of our other papers. So if you look up the December issues of Bible Reviews in the early 2000s and recent years of the Biblical Archaeology Review you can study this information for yourself. We now know that Christians were saying that December 25 was Jesus birthday starting in the third century, 100 years earlier than we thought. And it was done 100 years before Constantine, by people who wanted nothing to do with Paganism and who were hiding from Pagans in the Catacombs. Then what makes it more complicated was in the second century, 200 years prior to when Christians were supposed to have started to see December 25 as the birth of Jesus, the church has the feast of the Annunciation (where the Angel told Mary that she was going to be Jesus' mother) every year at Passover. The date of the feast was different each year originally depending on when Passover was. Then one year the church changed from the Jewish calendar to the Roman Calendar. That year Passover fell on March 25. The church started to celebrate the feast on March 25 every year thereafter. What is 9 months after March 25? These events were not related to wanting to appeal to the Pagans and the Pagan feasts. In fact some studies have suggested that the evidence is that while the pagans had different holidays that fell in approximately this time frame, that there was nothing special about December 25 until the fourth century and that the Pagans may have taken it from the Christians. But that has more room for debate. Anyway, the current evidence is that it came from taking over a Jewish tradition. During the intertestamental period the Rabbis were saying to expect good things at Passover. A number began teaching that it was Passover when Isaac was born. But others were teaching that it was Passover when the 3 men came to Abraham, two went on to Sodom and Gomorrah and the third, who turned out to be the Lord, told Abraham and Sarah that at the appointed time Sarah would give birth. Thus that Sarah got pregnant with Isaac at Passover and that he was born 9 months later. (Guess when that would place Isaac's birth?). Then they were also saying that it was on another Passover, the anniversary of either Isaac being conceived or the anniversary of his birth that Abraham took Isaac to sacrifice him but God provided the substitute. In the second century AD (200 years before Constantine) the church and synagogue split into two religions. This was a very sad time in the history of God’s people. Like a divorce people on both sides were hurt and would lash out to cause pain to people on the other side. Frankly I like the idea that we got this from the pagans better than the fact that it came from this sad time in history. One of the things the church was saying in it’s lashing out at the Jews was that Christians were better than Jews because Isaac was merely a type of Jesus while Jesus was the better antitype. Church leaders drew in the second century AD drew parallels that said that as the Angels and the Lord visited Sarah and Abraham that Passover day and announced Sarah's pregnancy and Sarah gave birth to Isaac 9 months later. So the angel visited Mary and the Lord entered Mary's womb on a Passover day and Jesus was born 9 months later. Thus with the feast of the Annunciation use to be first every Passover and then changed to March 25 and the events surrounding the church-synagogue split and the Jewish tradition on Passover and Isaac is indication that we got December 25 from the Jews and not the pagans. (Note: That year the rabbis and synagogues in Greece said that Passover was April 6, and they changed from celebrating the feast of the Annunciation every Passover to every April 6 and this affected on how some eastern churches celebrate Christmas on January 6). Now, we most likely have the wrong date, however we do have the correct event! And also this is the same season as Hanukkah that John connects to the raising of Lazarus, thus focusing on the importance of enjoying our loved ones and to have hope that when our loved ones die that death is only an interruption and that one day we can be reunited with our loved ones and never ever part again!

if someone thinks Christmas (Christ's Mass) is pagan and refuses to celebrate the holiday for that reason, that's okay. But the truth is, most pagans (and I'm thinking of the witches and other neopagans, along with Druidic and Celtic factions, rather than centuries old-established non-christian religions) aren't particularly impressed with Christmas. The day has no relevance in their sacred calendar (and never has), contrary to what many Christian writers have tried to espouse. The Winter Solstice (Yule) was the important day... and it's *never* on Dec 25th. So many Christians get so worked up and fearful of "touching" anything that could possibly be conceived as "pagan" — and end up sounding the false alarm. Let's be thankful for a day when most of the Christian world remembers the Christ Child's birth, and stops for a bit to think good thoughts. But as I wrote first, if someone doesn't want to celebrate Christmas, fine. But don't steal the joy from others who truly get a blessing from the day...

In view of Stinsonmarri's post, I feel a need to clearly say that in no way did I intend to imply that she was a Jesuit hiding under my bed. As a matter of fact, I am confused as to how either she or any other person could think that I might have implied that she was a Jesuit. To set put this in context, for any who do not know: Jesuits are all male. There is no such thing as a Jesuit female. My understanding is that Stinsonmarri is a female. I would never imply otherwise. Further, I would never consider Stinsonmarri to have any desire to hide under my bed.

We don't know what day Jesus was born. Maybe he was born December 25, probably he wasn't. I've come across 3 times that have been offered. I have to admit I don't really understand all of the arguments for these 3 possibilities, but want to share here and if you are interested you can probably look these up. Some give evidence that he might have been born during the feast of Tabernacles, and I have to admit this is where I sort of lean, but it's more the reputation of some of the scholars who suggest this view than my understanding of their reasoning itself. Others argue for it to be in the spring. Some say that shepherds would not keep their sheep in the field in cold weather, but the weather around Bethlehem has large variences year after year. Sometimes winter is cold and damp, other times it is much more temperate and somewhat warm. Also sheep for the temple would be kept in the fields of Bethlehem all year round. One point that interestes me in this argument is that Jesus celebrated his Bar Mitzvah at Passover in the temple. The third argument that I've come across is that apperently someone has figured out that when the priests of Zechariah's two week rotation would always occurred over the Day of Atonement and thus that it was the day of Atonement when the Angel appeared to Zechariah and thus the angel appeared to Mary 6 months later, making it Passover which could place his birth around this time of the year. But I've only heard this view from more conservative evangelicals and not from anyone who I recognize as a respected Bible scholar. I want to clearify that while I'm open to any of these three suggestions being correct, The way we actually got December 25 is not based on the above arguments, nor was it based on paganism, but was based on the two intertestamental Jewish traditions. that I posted earlier this evening. So I don't believe that Jesus was born on December 25.

If you all will excuse me for a bit, while I leave this forum. I think that I need to check to see if there is a Jesuit hiding under my bed. I think I heard some strange noises from that area, recently.

I stand corrected. At any rate, I appreciate the light that you, Gregory, and Kevin have shined on this subject.

However we have misunderstood this. The Bible gives several feasts, most of them were given by Moses for feasts and fast such as Passover and Day of Atonement etc. These celebrations were related to the agricultural cycle of the land. They were celebrated by the pagan Canaanites centuries before Abraham was born. They were the important days in the worship of the Baal religion. The Bible takes these very days and kept the less objectionable parts of their customs but removes the orgies and the idea that you needed to unite your life force to help Baal and the gods of life, and change the focus to rest in God being able to do it all by himself without your works to help and to focus on what God does for us. The Bible tells the Hebrews what they can and what they cannot do on these days. As we read this carefully it should not come to be a big suprise that the lists of dos and don'ts for these feasts came from the pagan celebration where they did both what the Bible commands the Hebrews to do but they also did what the Bible commands the Hebrews not to do. The Bible also gives us other guidelines that can give us guidance on how to deal with say Christmas:　 Later we find the events of Queen Esther which became the feast of Purim. So here we see the Bible addition to itself additional feasts for events worth celebrating. We also have the feast of Hanukkah. You cannot find Hanukkah in the Old Testament. Yet in the New Testament Jesus is celebrating this non-Biblical feast and adds to the celebration the focus on enjoying and appreciating our beloved friends and family and he placed this as the setting for his greatest miracle. While we don't find Christmas in the Bible, we find guidelines that tell us how to relate to Christmas. Seventh-day Adventist follow these guidelines and thus accept Christmas, although volunteer since the Bible does not command us to keep it we do not command people to keep it.

To be clear: If my wife knew that a female was hiding under my bed, my wife would chase the female away.

BTW, I brought up the connection with charity and Christmas. And I stand by it and would not be cold hearted enough to suggest people not give in memory of Christmas spirit because it might be a "pagan" day. It is just a reality that needs increase during the winter and people may need a reminder to keep giving more than the rest of the year. As I already said, all days belong to God and you can go around the calander and find a pagan named day (every day of the week has a pagan name. I suspect we all use them every day. So, are we worshipping pagan gods?), a day of a pagan god's birthday, and even heinous things done by pagans. They should not have "dibs" on every (or any) day of the year! AGAIN, as EGW wrote, "... You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible." We are allowed to celebrate the birth of Jesus on any day of the year we choose and it has worked out how it has.

5 Things You Didn't Know about George Washington On December 18, 1799, George Washington's funeral was held at his beloved home at Mount Vernon. Washington led an amazing life, but you probably didn’t know the following 5 things about this founding father... Washington Freed All His Slaves Washington was the only president who freed his slaves. He had fought in the American Revolution for freedom and his attitude toward slavery changed with time. When he made his will, he owned about 123 slaves and stipulated that they be freed upon his wife’s death. His estate paid for their care for many years after they obtained their freedom. He Was a Colonial Era Innovator Washington was a keen believer in innovation and worked throughout the years to improve his crops and livestock breeding and is reported by some to have invented crop rotation. Among his accomplishments were the introduction of donkeys to the United States and his work toward breeding the American foxhound. He also patented new technology for an automated mill and designed a threshing barn that greatly improved the tedious work of separating the wheat from its chaff. Washington Was a Whiskey Tycoon One of the most profitable ventures that Washington undertook was the whiskey distillery located at his home at Mount Vernon. It was one of the largest distilleries in the country and produced almost 11,000 gallons in 1799. The distillery remained in operation until about 1808 and burned down a few years later; however, it was rebuilt and is still in operation, selling whiskey made from Washington’s original recipe. The Painting of Washington Pictured on the One Dollar Bill Was Never Finished Gilbert Stuart began the portrait of Washington in 1796 but never completed it. Stuart, along with his daughters, painted about 130 copies of the portrait, selling them for around $100 each, and retained the original. The original painting was purchased jointly by two art galleries in 1980 and is displayed at the National Portrait Gallery in Washington, D.C. Washington Holds the Highest Military Rank Washington was highly instrumental in leading the country to victory in the American Revolution and was also its first president, so it isn’t surprising that the country would want to honor him in a special way. Washington held the rank of lieutenant general when he died, but having three stars didn’t seem like it showed enough appreciation for his great sacrifice and service to his country. In 1976, he was posthumously awarded the rank of General of the Armies, and General John Pershing is the only other officer to have been awarded this honor.

For most of the people on the earth, come late fall we enter a period of short days and long cold dark nights. Month after month people freeze and are hungry. So, for many many people the Christmas season is like a shining light in the misery of winter. In fact, if it were not for the Christmas season to remind people to be more loving and caring through charitable giving, many many people would be in serious trouble. I would not like to see what life for the poor would be like without a Christmas season. In the temple services of the desert, once a year they had the Day of Atonement, which symbolized the Investigative Judgement and the end of this age. But it happened every year. Only one time was Jesus born into this world, but we celebrate it every year. As EGW wrote, "... You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible." While she may have been writing about Christmas trees, you can extend it to the entire Christmas season. So what if at one point in time, December 25 was the birthday of some heathen figure. Like some social justice movements we can say Jesus "took back the day." All days belong to God anyway. Most people are aware that December 25 is not the birthday of Jesus. So, perhaps it is even a blessing from Heaven that we celebrate it in the dead of winter, after the shortest day of the year and days only get longer and spring is coming. Christmas is a reminder that Spring is coming like Jesus' life on this earth is a reminder that there is a life after this earth. Guaranteed after the lake of fire, no one will remember the original figure born on December 25. (Sorry, to those who live in the southern hemisphere!) But some people seem to have this hatred of Christmas, even those who claim to be Christians. People who see the blessing of Christmas are also criticized. And sorry to say, they even make reference to people being liars by saying Jesus was not born on December 25. Truth does not always need to be spot on exact. Jesus told a story of a man in hell, but we know there is no hell (yet!). In fact the Bible says so. So, was Jesus a liar for telling the story of Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham? So, I will accept the ideas promoted by Martin Luther and Ellen White before I will listen to those who will criticize Christmas for whatever reason they got their shorts in a knot over.

Many things are written in the Bible that those who do not really know will think they do and get it wrong. This includes even Adventists in the end time. "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." Daniel 12:10 Hence, one would be wise to pay attention when Paul wrote, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Cor 10:12 The issue of the Jews not understanding the Messiah even when He walked among them intrigues me. They totally missed the meaning or what was happening at the first advent. I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood. Not sure if I even understand myself what is happening and am studying intensely to figure it out. Therefore, like the unbelievers in the temple at Jerusalem, when God speaks from heaven in the very end times, only His people will understand and to all the rest it will only sound like thunder. So, during summer storms and peels of thunder think about God speaking and it only sound like gibberish! (Are you aware that the KJV uses the term "Take heed" 65 times thru the Bible?!)

Only traditional SDA's "know" this. I personally think the issues will be MUCH larger than this - like "who do you worship (in general) and who do you trust - the gods of this world or the One True God of heaven"?

Methinks someone is a legend in her own mind!