Leaderboard

There are several straw-man arguments here. First, I know that some people equate "acceptance" with "approval." These two are not the same. We are called to accept people where and how they are, and by our love and inclusion show them a better way in Jesus. If God sees a need to change them (OR US), that's up to Him. (Mike-drop.) As far as " look[ing] out for the beliefs of whatever faith is under attack." the best defense is living a Christian life of love, acceptance, and support and letting others see the beauty of your belief. As far as defending God...well, that is just un-Biblical; God defends us. Read Isa. 46. As far as "private sins" are not ALL sins between the individual and God? And ALL sins affect people around us. How is "openly" LGBT+++ any different than "openly" controlling, lying, bullying or excluding. Yet the one is readily accepted and the other is condemned and excluded. ALL sin is sin. One is born with a very dominant personality needing to control everything, the other is born preferring the same gender. Both are "wired" that way. Neither one chose that. Both are sinners* Yet we exclude the one and praise the other. It is not our job to judge and condemn or exclude anyone. We are called to love and include EVERYONE. I know that sits VERY uncomfortably with the old-school mind. They're so afraid the church will be filled with homeless and hookers and drug addicts and pimps and thieves and God knows what. Actually, I can barely think of a better situation, because I AM INCLUDED! JoeMo, you said you had a jaded past. I relate. I have one too. I also have a jaded present. It bothers me, but I leave it with God. And God knows what. God knows what I have done. God knows what I will do. God knows what YOU have done, and will do. And God knows what He wants, and how to achieve it. *Certain caveats apply, beyond the scope of this discussion.

Jesus gave us an example of the dichotomy we are discussing. The Pharisees brought a woman to him caught in the very act of adultery to have her stoned. Jesus told them that he who was without sin should throw the first stone. They left. So the writer of the Law that said adulterers should be stoned to death was there with an adulteress. He was the only one there who was without sin; and He had the power and authority to condemn her on site. But He did not. He told her to go and sin no more. We don't know whether she indeed quit sinning, but if she didn't, and they brought her to Jesus again, would He have then had her stoned? I think not. I'm glad church discipline even at its worst isn't as harsh as it was then. What about the Corinthian church? In 1 Corinthians, he admonishes then about doctrinal division, incest, sexual immorality, taking brothers and sisters to court, among other things. Sounds like a pretty dysfunctional church to me! Yet Paul says: "To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours: 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 4 I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—with all kinds of speech and with all knowledge— 6 God thus confirming our testimony about Christ among you. 7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Cor. 2-9) This horrible church was still under the blessing of God. Who are we to say anything about what congregation is or is not under the blessing of God?

Jesus did not want to suffer for our sakes! But He submitted to the will of His Father. So, no I do not want to suffer, but everyone must. It is all part of the sanctification process. To be clear, by suffering I mean denying ourselves what our sinful selves want. This is not a physical pain. A similar situation would be someone who wants to lose weight. They deny themselves all the things they want to eat, but are they physically in pain? No, but it is "torture" to not drop in for a milkshake when driving by the Dairy Queen. Since our suffering involves more serious things that when we fail, Satan accuses us before the Father, then as heaven watches us intently and we achieve the victory thru Jesus, we have that opportunity to glorify God. Our prayer is not to suffer more, but "lead us not into temptation."

We don't need "Pastor" Mike to tell us that we are never beyond God's grace!! We have our real Father and his Son Jesus to tell us that!!