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This is pure legalistic heresy. No one could EVER be saved in the past, present, or future without having Christ as an Advocate.

NOTE: There is no time, in this human life, prior to the 2nd Advent when any human can stand on their own merit outside of the salvation provided by Christ. Period. End of discussion.

In the quote below, HCH has introduced a thought, that carried to its logical conclusion, is rejected by the majority of Seventh-day Adventists today. It is not my intention to get into a point by point discussion with HCH as to what he said below. Rather I simply think it appropriate to inform those reading this thread that this is just an additional point in the body of material that HCH has posted that is rejected by the majority of SDAs today.

Little Moishie Rosen came home from school and said to her mother, "Ima, guess what? We learned how to make babies today." Mrs. Rosen, more than a little surprised, asked fearfully, "That's interesting. How do you make babies?" "It's simple," replied Moishie. "You just change 'y' to 'i' and add 'es'."

Dr. Goldstein moved into the neighborhood and began attending the local shul. Rabbi Feldman was delighted, and it wasn't long before they were helping each other in their work, Rabbi Feldman referring people to the doctor, and Dr. Goldstein telling patients about the shul. One referral from Dr. Goldstein called the shul office asking for a written copy of the Rabbi’s last four Shabbat sermons. Rabbi Feldman was most pleased until he discovered that the patient's problem was insomnia.

Two paramedics were dispatched to check on 92-year-old Moishe Applebaum who had become disoriented. They decided to take him to the hospital for evaluation. En route, with siren going, they questioned Moishe to determine his level of awareness. Leaning close, one asked, "Mr. Applebaum, do you know what we're doing right now?" Moishe slowly looked up at him, then gazed out the ambulance window. "Oh," he replied, "I'd say about 50, maybe 55."

Joe: In Revelation, it clearly states that the remnant will keep all of YAHWEH THE FATHER'S Commandments and have the Testimony of YAHSHUA. It does not specify just the Sabbath. I love someone to show me that it states that. Secondly, in Revelation Chapter 14, the whole chapter is actually dealing with the 144,000. I do not understand why we can not see they are receiving their reward for the work they have done. Then the Chapter shows what they did and if you notice Verse 12 states clearly about the patience of the saints and again those who keep the Commandments of THE MOST HIGH! I see nothing at all about the Sabbath vs. Sunday nor is their persecution. Chapter 11 speaks about the Two Witness which has been identified as the Bible or Gospel. Well, the remnant will have the Gospel and will have the power to shut down the rain and other powers. So I ask anyone if they have this power how is there going to be any persecution. You and I both agree that the beast and the whore are two different foes. Chapter 17 speaks early about the whore and then the angel showed the mystery of both the whore and the beast. The rest of the chapter is mainly on the beast and how he gains power and the now the 10 kings he makes along with him hate the whore and it is the fulfillment of YAHWEH! Chapter 18 deals with a city and specified the city in Rev 11:8 stating the Great City! This great city is where YAHSHUA was crucified so that would be Jerusalem. Rev 17:18 states again the great city or Jerusalem. Then Chapter 18 tells what will happen to Jerusalem. It will be the habitation of uncage unclean and hateful birds! This chapter calls the whore's daughters unclean and hateful birds! But look at the description of the city being destroyed. This is the city that killed the prophets and apostles, what great clue that this is Jerusalem. Paul before becoming converted killed the saints! It is also called the great city and it is being destroyed and an angel finishes the city destruction by using a milestone and casting it into the sea. The proof that the beast and the papacy will war for dominance is Rev 16:13, 14 is exactly like Rev 18:2 and Rev 16:16 is the battle between the two that will be Armageddon! So according to Revelation, the Sabbath is included in the Commandments and nowhere does it show that the remnant will be persecuted. The word "tsârâh:" Strong's Concordance: tsarah: straits, distress NAS Exhaustive Concordance-Word Origin: fem. of tsar-Definition: straits, distress I would love if someone can show me the Sabbath and persecution in Daniel Chapter 12 or Revelation and I stand and accept it. Please, no hidden agenda is must be plain and clear! My faith will always be SDA but according to the original description, the pioneers wrote and believed! Blessings!

Let's do another example, set back in the days of Roman persecution of early Christians. Let's say the Romans demanded a man bow down and worship Zeus or Diana or the Emperor, or another of the Roman/Greek gods. They threaten death or severe pain if the man refuses, and slavery for his family. If the man - in his mind - prays to the LORD for forgiveness, while he bows to the Roman god, will he be "saved" ? We can't really know - can we? The use of force - real persecution, changes the whole equation. Peter denied Christ and then ran away, because he was afraid. Was he forgiven? Yes! I do believe those who stand firm in faith, and suffer for Christ will be rewarded in a special way. Doesn't mean that folks who were "weak in faith" won't be there. It's not all or nothing. We are all at various stages of growth. The folks outside of the Ark were not threatened with painful death for getting aboard. So far as we know, ridicule was the only "force" used. I realize that loss of social acceptance is a powerful motivator for some folks, but I doubt the LORD has it very high up on His "extenuating circumstances" list.

Lou: You referred to Job. If I remember correctly, God called Job a perfect person. And yet when you come to the end of the book of Job, it says he repented in dust and ashes. What did he have to repent of? What does repentance mean when God has said to Satan, “Have you […] The post Questions and Answers (14:8) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

Be zealous therefore Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

We should worship God every day. In the beginning, He blessed every day. But there is only one day that He sanctified or set apart for holy use. It was in today's Sabbath School lesson. It is like taking a train ride. The train leaves every day from your city at 9 AM and returns at noon. You have a free ticket to take the train every Saturday, but it is only free on Saturday. You can take the train any day and every day, but you can only use the free ticket on Saturday. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. His custom was to go to church on Sabbath and Isaiah says that in the New Earth, we will meet on Sabbath. So why would anyone want to go to church on a day that Jesus is not there? Some pick Friday some pick Sunday, but Jesus is there on Saturday. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and of Sabbath keepers. What it really boils down to is obedience. We have enough evidence to know that Jesus is going to meet with us on the day that He sanctified (He is Lord of the Sabbath) and we can meet with Him when He is there or we can choose a day when He is not there. Revelation 14 says no (study it). As it was in Noah's day some folks probably believed Noah's message, but did not get into the ark. They were lost in spite of their belief. When Moses raised the serpent on the pole in the wilderness; only those who looked lived. Those who believed that God would save them, but who refused to look ...died! Apostate Protestantism is the last power to wage war against God's people. Islam does not teach salvation through Christ. They teach salvation independent from Christ. They will be involved as will all apostate religions: Jews, RC, Islam, evolutionists, Buddhists, secularists, etc.