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Mark Cahill, a Baptist, wrote a book called "One Thing You Can't Do in Heaven." It was a book about evangelism, and of course there will be no evangelism in heaven. But there will also be a time on this earth before the Second Coming when there will be no value in continuing to do evangelism. Jesus talks about a time when He will stand and say "Let the righteous be righteious still, and the filthy be filthy still" (paraphase). It has been a teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist church that that is roughly the close of probation. God's people will no longer sin. But also, it is no longer possible to be converted and be saved. If you are not saved at the close of probation, you are forever lost. Between the close of probation and the Second Coming, there is an indeterminate amount of time which also enclose the Time of Trouble. As mentioned there will be no value in evangelism as no one will be able to be brought to Jesus. While the Latter Rain has occurred, it is now unavailable to the wicked. Amos wrote of this when he penned, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it." Amos 8:11-12 See, the thing is, nearly every home in America probably has more than one Bible in their home, usually with a thickening layer of dust. You can go to any second hand store and find shelves full of Bibles. So, why will they search for the word of the Lord? One thing coming to mind is that when you read the Bible the Holy Spirit speaks to you through the pages of the Scripture. He will not so speak to the wicked in that day. Bibles for the wicked will have gone dark and no more understanding is available. The world for most of the people in it will have gone into a spiritual darkness or night time.

NOTE: This forum has taken the position that discussion of the issues with Linda should end. Do not think that we can again discuss those past issues with Linda. See: https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/3abn-brenda-walsh-split-rocks-adventist-network and https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/danny-shelton-steps-down-3abn-president

I loved Hee Haw and I loved the singing quartets, etc. If I'm not mistaken all those guys are now passed away??

my favorite "rock & roll"

So, we have seen many liberal / left wing ideas penetrating into the SDA church such as women's ordination, the push for acceptance of gay people into the church, the abysmal inability and even surrender of the men of the church to do anything about it (with the accompanying disappearance of many men/boys from the church), makes one wonder if we are far behind what many concerned Catholics are experiencing as they watch is going on in their church: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w2Ji4u8ymk

Surveys have been done in the past on people who left the church. When asked what bothered them the most, a common answer was "No one came looking for me." In my church, a large percentage of the members on the books have not been to church in many years. there are some unusual circumstances to this situation, but when I have brought it up to the pastor and the elder on why we do not go find these people and bring them back to church, it is like banging my head on the wall. Would they even want to come back to a place where they are most likely not even wanted?

Messianics and Hebrew Roots don't see it that way. They say "the Law" of God, is the entire Torah - every command in the 5 Books of Moses.

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." Some folks reject the Letter to the Hebrews, because of this "change of the law". I personally believe "the priesthood" was changed BACK to what it originally was - "the firstborn". That is how Jesus can be High Priest, because He is "the firstborn over all creation". God changed His Law at Mount Sinai, to make Aaron and his sons "the priesthood" - "instead of the firstborn". When that sin was wiped away by the blood of Christ, the priesthood could go BACK to "the firstborn".

It would be interesting to go through all the laws written in the Torah, to discuss what is retained in the "New" Covenant, and what is not.

The Conference President and I continue to have a polite conversation. In a situation like this it is important to have a common understanding on some basic issues. This has been a part of our conversation. I will keep you informed, to the extent that the President will allow me to quote him. I have given him links to this discussion here so that he can read this thread.

HOW would you explain "natural" law, from the Bible?

So, pray tell, exactly how was Abraham circumcised? Truth is, no one today knows.

Actions are weighed ⚖️ 1Sa 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

Indeed. I didn't think that was a question. As far as I can find, Paul didn't compel any Gentiles to become circumcised. However, if after reading the Scriptures (the Old Testament was all that was available) and hearing the gospel, it is quite possible that a Gentile man would request to be circumcised as Abraham was. I have seen an interview where a Gentile man tells how he wanted so much to be circumcised after reading the Scriptures that he circumcised himself. He was not compelled by anyone. After being circumcised in the manner of Abraham, a Gentile would still be considered to be "uncircumcised" by the Pharisees in Paul's day and by Orthodox Jews today because such a circumcision does not meet the man-made requirements for Gentile circumcision. In order to be considered properly "circumcised" in the eyes of a Pharisee or an Orthodox Jew, the circumcision has to be done according to additional man-made traditions, which include extensive instruction in the man-made traditional laws about how to obey Torah, and a life-long commitment to obey those additional man-made traditions.

I am not questioning what you saw in said studies, but I would question any premise that says the number one, two, or even three reason that any people, let alone young people, leave the church, or stay away from the church because of doctrine. I have personally visited many dozens of people who have left the church, in their homes, and it was a very rare occurrence that they left because of doctrines. In most cases I have experienced and talked to; they left because of people, not doctrine.

Many blessings for Rosh Hashanna. Rachel

It would be reasonable only if Paul were a false teacher. On what basis are you thinking that Paul rebuked people for following God's law rather than for following man-made religious traditions? Which of the several passages that are commonly taken out-of-context do you have in mind? I definitely do not believe that the apostle Paul tried to get believers to violate any of the law of God.

The President of the Conference that employs Susan M has began a conversation with me. At this time he has only asked me for information related to my request. I will inform you as to how this develops in accord with his willingness give me permission to cite him. Keep in mind the 17 hour time difference.

Joe: The problem it we have been taught that spiritual beings are ghost that you cannot feel. That is not so. Jacob wrestle with YAHSHUA! Also it was the angels that grab Jacob. They are beings that have bodies but their bodies are made different from us. That does not mean they cannot eat, touch or feel. Their bodies structure are made to appear and disappear, go through wall and many other things we are capable of doing. You really do not even know the original powers that the Adams had before sin. Our thoughts, mind and knowledge is not like our CREATORS. THEY can create anything out of nothing! You must separate all the superstitions that were taught and realize the power of THE ALMIGHTIES! Blessings!

They can appear as men but that does not mean they are flesh. YAHSHUA had a fleshly body prepared for HIM by HIS FATHER! No I am talking about the two Adam's according to the Bible. Both the male and the female were call Adams. Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen 5:2 Again, angels are asexual they have no gender they can appear as both a male or female according to the situation. I explained that with the names given of the two that is mention. Also, Paul said that they can also appear as an angel of light! They can appear as animals or anything because they are spiritual beings. That's the power they have and remember their actual appearance is four faces; three are of animals and one like a human being. As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a person (adam), and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. Eze 1:10 Man's ego over the female states that everything is male first, but that is not how the Bible is actually written. They are both Adam and they were equal no king and queen but rulers together equally! It is a shame how the Bible has been tampered with to cause so much confusion! But we all must study the ancient language and it actual grammar. It is really not hard these days! Blessings!

✨ God will help Isa 50:7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Disgusting, stomach turning, vomit inducing and unfortunately very true!