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When I was a kid, my Dad (a non-believer) would take us kids rock collecting and hiking around the Arizona desert, or beach combing at Ventura, Calif on Sabbath afternoon, while my Mom (devout SDA) took a nice long nap. I have to say, that time with my Dad was some of the most "spiritual" I ever spent with him. Fond memories of those Sabbaths.

Yes, and after further reflection, I ought not to have referred to certain traditions, practices and beliefs of certain Adventists as "silly". Rather I should have simply stated that I personally find these fine distinctions unconvincing. I did not intend to disparage the sincere convictions of others.

You could almost turn this into another thread - "What do you do on Sabbath that no one else would do?" or any number of other variations. Seems like everyone would have their own personal lists of dos and don'ts. Sometimes I would like to see a show on TV that comes is broadcast on the Sabbath. While I may not watch it on the Sabbath, should I record it for after Sabbath viewing? (Of course, setting up the record function before Sabbath!) How far will you drive on Sabbath. I know many will not drive beyond the range of their gas tank. The NT does refer to a Sabbath days journey, which on foot was less than a mile. If I am drying a load of clothes, providing I get it started before Sabbath starts, can it continue and finish during the Sabbath?! Same for dishwashers, washers, etc. Are all religious books kosher for Sabbath hours? Are books regarding Biblical history acceptable even if there is no spiritual application of the material? My ex-brother-in-law is very Orthodox Jewish and they have very strict Sabbath rules. One was you could not turn things (radios,etc) on/off on the Sabbath. One time his two year old got ahold of the radio and turned it on to a rock music station with loud sound. They had to "endure" loud rock music in their house for the rest of the Sabbath! You could go on and on with hypothetical invasions of the Sabbath hours. Probably the most important application you could draw from it would to not be an accuser of the brethren who understand and keep the Sabbath day somewhat differently than you.

Amen!

I would not go so far as to say it destroyed the environment, but there have been some serious consequences to the mining. One problem is, can you see 7+ billion people living on this earth with none of the modern, even if polluting, "advances" in modern life? Part of the cost of having this many people. (I am not a population reduction disciple and every one of the 7+ billion people and those yet to come are every bit as much loved by God.)

There is a lot of story about that church school and church in Dryden. But that is outside this thread. That congregation has suffered pain to include the pain of a long prison sentence for a member. But that is not the subject of this thread. Note: I have current contact with members of the Dryden congregation.

Thanks for sharing that. Your Dad sounds like someone I would have really enjoyed meeting. This story reminds me of "Adventist Adventure #345" where a bunch of us were going for a "sabbath walk" down a popular hiking place in a big city. When we got to the river, one could either turn right or left, to continue on down whichever section of the river we chose to. BUT, right there at the junction, was an enterpreneur with an ice-cream cart scoring on almost all of the sweating hikers that were on the trail. It was impossible to miss him, he was just right there. An elder that was with us turned to me and said: "what do we do now?" At this point all the kids were clamoring for ice cream, of course. I refused to say one way or another, and still, no one of our group got a lick of ice cream that day. I can tell you that three of the kids that were there that day stopped going to church the minute they turned into the age where they could decide for themselves. Im still not saying whether or not I think they should or should not have gotten ice cream; but what I can say is that they turned the whole thing into such a circus, it totally ruined everyone's day. "No rest for the wicked," I guess.

I remember a visitor bringing a bucket of KFC to a pot-luck once. People were either snickering or complaining about it; but I noticed it was the first thing gone at the pot luck. People must have snuck outside to eat it.

the reason Dad joined the Adventist church was because he was convinced it would be the remnant church, and because finally (in the 1980s) Adventists stopped being "holier than thou" to him, and started speaking to him as if he was their equal. Before that time, most of the SDAs with whom he came into contact were stuffed shirted, snooty bigots. I remember one time in Pathfinders before Dad was an SDA, he went on a campout with us (Dad had been in professional scouting, and knew more about the outdoors, camping, and survival than anyone else I ever knew.) The Pathfinder leader had asked Dad to lead out in singing some campfire songs, so, naturally, he started teaching the kids a Boy Scout campfire song. Sadly, it was called "Ham and Eggs," and the Pathfinder leader jumped up and yelled at Dad, "STOP!! STOP!!! WE DON'T SING THOSE KIND OF SONGS!!!" Dad had no idea what the idiot was having a conniption fit about; he said later, he thought maybe his zipper was down or something. But no....it was the fact that the song included the word, "Ham".....

There are some things I learned before I was baptized that I thought were ridiculous. Some of these things I still think are ridiculous. One thing I found to be ridiculous was making sure you purchased your Sabbath meal tickets prior to sundown of Friday when attending camp meeting. So - I exchange US Government script for SDA script and pay for my meal that way? Why couldn't I just use my credit card and pay when the bill comes in? IMHO, what's the difference? The people in the kitchen are still working their fannies off (breaking the Sabbath?) no matter how people pay.

A number of SdA cultural traditions surrounding the sabbath are silly. I know people who will run the dishwasher on sabbath, but won't run the washing machine or dryer for clothes. I know people who will use a lint brush on their clothes sabbath morning, but who wouldn't dream of using a iron to get out the wrinkles. I know people who will go for long walks in the park, but will not go for a jog or run. I know people who will drive their cars on sabbath but won't take the bus, subway, taxi or uber. I know people who will park in a lot that the church rented for sabbath use, but who won't park on the street where a meter must be paid. I know people who will toss a frisbee back and forth but who won't play catch with a baseball. I know people who will cross-country ski but who won't downhill ski. The list is endless. The SdA list of dos and don'ts for sabbath are ludicrous, and of course each SdA has his or her own personal list. As I get older, I am coming to the conclusion that Romans 14:5 means exactly what it says and that observance of days in the New Testament era is simply a matter of personal conviction.

My personal opinion is that NONE of us are ready for whats coming; and Jesus will be our ONLY hope then. I would imagine we can start practicing that anytime now.

Well, please don't take this personally, but I did ask that question for a good reason. This is not saying anything about you personally, just about people, in general. I have learned some really tough lessons, the hard way, about being confident like that, and thinking/proclaiming that "Im ready." And after what I have learned, I realize how un-ready most of us really are. Peter, for one, is a very good example. When Jesus told Peter he would deny Him 3 times later that night, Peter was almost indignant in saying: Paul also sounded the warning about this very thing : I know quite a few people, who, years ago, said quite loudly and proudly "Im ready for the time of trouble," and NONE of those people are in the church now, and most of them are not even Christians anymore. They were not apparently half as ready as they thought they were, so I am just putting out the warning, so to speak about that. its not for you personally, its for everyone, including me.

You started this topic, so if you don't feel it was hijacked, so be it. My apologies to you, PK. I meant no offense.

mercy for thousands ? Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

IMO, there was NO "hijacking" attempt. PK is one forum member who doesnt do that. In all the years I have been on the forum, I have never seen him do such things, not even once. BTW, a little thread drift is ok, but its not OK to make it personal, about a specific person. You should try looking over a persons posting history before jumping the gun. Not everyone that mentions Trump is "hijacking."

Coal mining destroyed the environment; and shutdown of coal mining has destroyed the economy. So sad!

The economy in the US now is stronger than it's been in decades. Nonetheless, our crippling national debt and the hopeless economy in much of the rest of the world will eventually drag us down. I would not be surprised if there is a worldwide economic "reset" in the next 10 years which will result in a worldwide redistribution of wealth in order to minimize worldwide sovereign debt.

Yes I am!!

Did I say EVIL trump?????????? If I did let me have a link to that statement!!!!! Please, otherwise do not respond in this way!!! Fake is the statement that I said "Eveil trump!!!" That would be you And keep believing that there wont be a sunday law, because it will happen!!!!!

Also off topic: Religion is very important to many throughout Appalachia. But like everywhere, church attendance is declining. Many churches sit empty and largely abandoned partly because of declining attendance, but also because of declining population. The aged are leaving this life and many of the young are leaving the area for economic reasons. Even some Adventist churches have closed down. While at a regional camp meeting, one person was heard to say, "we only get new members when they move here, but almost never are any new members to the church. We have had many come to church who arrived because of Doug Batchelor. There are many non-Adventists who really like listening to him. But they usually do not stay. I find that most people are very aware of the Sabbath day as being the Sabbath of the Bible, but it seems not to matter. Regarding the Pennington Gap and Big Stone Gap churches, they have combined to one church in Dryden. They have a church school, but they have been downgraded, if you will, to a non-salaried lay pastor. Seems that lay pastors come with or without stipends for their labors. Other churches are at risk of being downgraded to "mission status."

5 Things You Didn't Know About The Holland Tunnel On November 13, 1927, the Holland Tunnel linking New York City and New Jersey beneath the Hudson River was opened to the public. Here are 5 surprising facts you didn't know about the Holland Tunnel... Construction of the Holland Tunnel Shared Several Firsts in History The Holland Tunnel was built because it was deemed impossible to construct a bridge to connect New York City and New Jersey. This tunnel was the first that passed through the Hudson River and the longest in the entire world when it was completed. The tube width is the world’s widest as well. It measures 29.5 feet wide, which set the standard for underwater tunnels built in the future all around the world. The Holland Tunnel Gets its Name From the Designer While many people may think the tunnel was named after the Netherlands for some reason, it was named after the designer, Clifford Millburn Holland. His design was for the two two-lane tunnels. However, Holland died the day before the tunnels were supposed to link on October 28, 1924. President Coolidge had planned a remote detonation as part of the day’s events to celebrate the completion of the tunnel, but celebratory events were canceled due to the designer’s death, and it was decided to name this amazing structure after him. Calvin Coolidge Opened the Tunnel From His Yacht When the tunnel was dedicated on November 13, 1927, President Coolidge was aboard his yacht, Mayflower, which was in the Potomac River. He used a telegraph key in gold, which moved apart the American flags located at the Holland Tunnel entrance to signal the opening. This key was the same one used by President Woodrow Wilson to detonate the final blast of the Panama Canal's construction. Pedestrians Were Permitted to Walk the Length of the Tunnel Only Once On the opening day of the Holland Tunnel, pedestrians were allowed to cross on foot, but apparently at a fairly high toll, according to a report by The New York Times. It apparently didn’t keep people away because it was reported that around 20,000 pedestrians had walked the length of the tunnel along the entire 9,250 feet within the first hour. That heavy foot traffic continued all day until the tunnel was closed at 7:00 p.m. The Worst Accident Inside the Holland Tunnel Occurred in 1949 A truck carrying hazardous materials through the Holland Tunnel on May 13, 1949 caught on fire, killing a firefighter and injuring 66 civilians. The truck was transporting 80 barrels of carbon disulfide, which was forbidden. The truck had made it around 2,900 feet into the tunnel when a barrel came free and fell onto the roadway, cracking open. The vapor ignited, catching four other trucks on fire and causing five others to be abandoned. There were 125 vehicles trapped inside the tube before it could be closed.

Rachel, you're braver than I am. There's no way I would try to put together a study on Lucifer aka Satan aka The Devil. Tread carefully.

Many powerful people in powerful positions are in league with the devil. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are in power because they have sold out to satan. Through the influence of these powerful leaders (I have some names in mind, but won't mention them for fear of turning this into a political thread), people are turning away from God's values and towards the values of the evil one. I will mention a couple groups who IMHO are preparing the world for the reign of the antichrist - the entertainment and news media groups.

You are fortunate. I lost my dad to divorce at age seven. He was never allowed visitation or to have us kids on weekends because my "devout" SDA mom was afraid he might have us doing something wrong on the Sabbath, feed us meat, or any number of other imaginary possible sins. Much of his life the next several years were largely lost because he spent so much time looking for us.