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B/M, I don't need any references; I totally agree with everything you just said (for a change)! The big thing you said that we all must recognize is that there will never be unity in this age in doctrine - IMHO even between two individuals much less two denominations. My wife and I can't even agree on every point of doctrine. But agreeing on absolutely everything is uniformity - not unity. Unity has to do with the heart just as much as the mind. By my read of the NT, the most important characteristic of the church is love. We are to be unified in our love of our Savior and each other. See 1 Cor. 13. There are people on this forum with whom I have big doctrinal differences. That being said, I still care for them deeply because their care for me comes through even though we disagree on some (usually "trivial") piece of so-called doctrine. I hope my care for them comes through in my posts.

I watch/read a lot of non-SDA spiritual stuff. It amazes me that certain otherwise very good preachers and commentators still consider SDA's to be a "cult". I was listening to John MacArthur last week; and he said that SDA's were a cult because they put the writings of EGW above scripture (a lie); and because the early church did away with the requirement to keep the 7th day holy (a misreading of Acts 15). Another pastor called SDAs heretics because of they don't believe in the unconditional immortality of the soul (a misreading of the entire Bible). If people would only study scripture instead of swallowing what they hear from the pulpit generation after generation and in their classes at the "semitary" (where the truth dies), maybe we could come into better Christian unity.

Unity is one thing Jesus wanted for for His people and His church. But the behavior of the leaders of some divisions is cause for concern in the positons they have taken in more than one issue. Especially is this a concern when they pushed their agenda even against a vote of the world church. Of particular concern is the effect it is having one the laity throughout the church. Many even wonder if the church will fall. This reminds me of a couple of situations. In the camp of the Israelites in the desert, what were the different individuals to do when Korah rebelled against Moses. We all know the results of that rebellion. Another situation which bears some similarity is that in the case of domestic violence. Two parents can be fighting, but at the same time each one ordering the children watching to do something or go somewhere. And each one ordering the children to do the opposite of what the other orders. And the children know that either parent can inflict severe pain on them. So, we have the "leadership" of the NAD, TED, and SPU ordering the "children" to do different from the GC. While I read often in the testimonies that you should not criticize the leaders in the church, but then what is a member to do when the leaders are criticizing each other? Each member of the church should feel under sacred obligations to guard strictly the interests of the cause of God. The individual members of the church are responsible for its distracted, discouraged state, by which the most sacred truths ever committed to man are dishonoured. There is no excuse for this condition of things.{5T 278.1} What does any member do when conflict exists in many levels of the church from the highest all the way down to the local church? Truly, it is easy to agree with, "Times that will try men's souls are just before us, and those who are weak in the faith will not stand the test of those days of peril." {5T 273.1} Woe be to the man that shall in the least degree seek to hinder the work which God is doing. We must labour for others; we must try to weaken the hold of our brethren upon their earthly treasures; for many will sell their birthright to eternal life for worldly advantages. {5T 274.3} The worst enemies we have are those who are trying to destroy the influence of the watchmen upon the walls of Zion. Satan works through agents. He is making an earnest effort here. He works according to a definite plan, and his agents act in concert. A line of unbelief stretches across the continent and is in communication with the church of God. 5T294

The Internet is full of criticism of the SDA Church. Often, in my thinking, that criticism is simply gossip, that is repeated without being check out for the facts. Recently, a criticism published on the Internet was that a basketball team from Walla Walla University (A SDA School) had played a formal match against another team on Friday evening, during the Sabbath hours. The actual facts were that the match began about I PM on Friday and ended well before sundown (the Sabbath) in the area where the match was played. The person making the criticism lived in another time zone where the Sabbath began several hours later than it began where the match was played. NOTE: The person making the false statements has apologized for doing so.

It was an early morning at the Glass Blowing studio, "Design With Fire," and 55 YO Patrick Mullen was practicing his art. A young male walked in, holding a penknife and said: "Give me your money, Old Man." Patrick responded: "My blowpipe is 4.5 feet long. The glass at the end is heated to 2,000 degrees. You should be asking your self if you can run faster than this old man.." NOTE: The man made a rapid exit. With thanks to: A. J. Baime. "West Sacramento," AARP Bulletin, December 2019, Page 16.

I've never encountered anyone who was fully in agreement with himself.

I can relate to this. It would seem that the way Big Media currently destroys peoples reputations and livelihoods has actually been learned from the church at large, who have always done this kind of thing to anyone with a different belief or doctrine. To publically label a group based on a simply doctrinal difference, is just so wrong, on so many levels. Yes, You heard it first from church. BTW, there is no such thing as "unity" if we are basing it on doctrinal agreement; additionally, divisions are an integral part of both OT & NT churches. Scripture tells us it was not always frowned upon and that The Holy Spirit was/is totally capable of working with us, despite the doctrinal differences. Something that certain people and churches need to learn. (this is my without references version.

https://atoday.org/is-church-membership-of-any-value/

Frankly, I think the only ones who *value* (or are concerned about) church membership are the ones whose salaries come directly from the tithes and offerings of said members. Those are the only ones who get tangible benefits from church membership. And the intangibles? Well, sadly, to be brutally honest, other than rubbing shoulders with [usually] like-minded people, there's not really anything of value that membership in the church offers to individual members. I can sacrifice and be of service to others until the cows come home, but I don't need to be a member of the church in order to do that. Nor do I need to be a member in order to be altruistic in other ways.

well; I wouldnt be surprised to see this topic shut down soon too. Seems like its ok to say anything, as long as its in line with The Agenda. While some would regard me as a rebel, or "out of line" when it comes to this topic; I actually hold back 90% of what I think. All we are seeing with "leaders" now, for the most part, is a battle to control the media and the public speak. Of course, the "leaders" are going to, initially gain the upper hand there. Especially the ones with all that gravy running down their chins as they feast on the "tithe" money. When Pharoh tried to interfere with Gods EXPRESS will; and His specific directive to the people of God; it cost Pharoh everything, right up to his first-born son, and as these closing movements do close in, there will be catastrophic loss of control. Will the church survive whats coming? I am reminded of one "leader" who told me I should not say anything to a Pastor, (him) or Id end up like the ones who called the prophet "baldhead." While I thought that was quite melodramatic, we can all note that I am still here, the "bears" did not show any interest in ripping me apart. "In good standing" is a mockery these days. Absolutely disgusting. (with a few exceptions). I am thankful for a few people "in leadership" or related to it somehow, who do reach out, sincerely, and in Christ. They are the only reason I don't say the rest of what I am thinking - but if said "leaders" ever hope to "bring them in" there will have to be a major over-haul.

5 Shocking Facts You Didn't Know About Frank Sinatra On December 12, 1915, Singer Frank Sinatra was born in Hoboken, New Jersey. He later became one of the most influential singers of the 20th century. Here are 5 shocking facts about the singer nicknamed “Ol’ Blue Eyes.” His Nickname as a Teen Was Scarface Forceps were used in Sinatra's birth, leaving a scar from his jawline to his mouth, along with a cauliflower ear. His nickname was “Scarface,” when he was a teen, and to add more problems, he suffered from severe acne that pitted his cheeks. Sinatra hated being photographed along his left side and often used makeup in an attempt to hide his scars. His physical insecurities didn’t end there. At 5’7, he also wore elevated shoes to appear taller. He Was Arrested For Seduction And Adultery Frank Sinatra’s brief stint in lockup was thanks to his womanizing ways. In 1938, the crooner was dragged into jail on the charge of seduction, evidently a serious deal back in the ’30s. Sinatra was caught sleeping with an upstanding single woman, a pillar in the community until she was corrupted by Frankie’s wicked ways.The charge was eventually dismissed, and Sinatra was let go until he was hauled back to the slammer the following month. After doing a little detective work, authorities discovered Sinatra’s lady friend was married, and Frank was charged with adultery. Eventually, officials dropped the case, and after a combined total of 16 hours in jail, Sinatra was back on the prowl. He Tried to Commit Suicide Numerous Times Sinatra was a heavy drinker and described himself as manic-depressive, or bipolar. During the 1950s, he tried to kill himself with a gas stove because he thought his popularity was waning. Fortunately, his manager found him in time to save his life. While he was with Ava Gardner, he tried to commit suicide three times, once by trying to shoot himself. Sinatra Could Have Played the Lead in Die Hard The role of John McClane ended up going to Bruce Willis in the movie Die Hard, but Sinatra had first call on the part. This is because the movie was based on a sequel to the book “Nothing Lasts Forever” called The Detective in which Sinatra had starred back in 1968. Because Sinatra was 73 at the time Die Hard was being cast, it was probably a good idea that he turned the role down. The FBI Had a Big Investigative File on Sinatra Without a doubt, “My Way” is Frank Sinatra’s most iconic song. It become his trademark song and audiences wouldn’t let him end a show without singing about how he’d lived his life without regrets. The song became a part of music history, and soon everyone was singing it, not just Sinatra. “My Way” has been covered by everyone from Sid Vicious to the Three Tenors. In 2005, it was played at more British funerals than any other pop song. The funny thing about all of this is that Sinatra absolutely hated “My Way.” And whenever he performed live, he told audiences exactly what he thought about it. During a gig at Caesars Palace, he told the crowd, “I hate this song—you sing it for eight years, you would hate it too.” But the fans wanted “My Way” so he gave it to them without fail.

I like the passage in this version. Ephesians 6: 10-19 "For we are not struggling against human beings, but against the rulers, authorities and cosmic powers governing this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm. 13 So take up every piece of war equipment God provides; so that when the evil day comes, you will be able to resist; and when the battle is won, you will still be standing. 14 Therefore, stand! Have the belt of truth buckled around your waist, put on righteousness for a breastplate, 15 and wear on your feet the readiness that comes from the Good News of shalom. 16 Always carry the shield of trust, with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the Evil One. 17 And take the helmet of deliverance; along with the sword given by the Spirit, that is, the Word of God; 18 as you pray at all times, with all kinds of prayers and requests, in the Spirit, vigilantly and persistently, for all God's people. (Eph 6:10 CJB) Joe, you mentioned that our "back" is not protected. I looked at pictures of 1st century armour. The "breastplate" is supported from shoulder straps that also supported a back plate. The front plate would not stay in place - in balance, without that back plate. To have one was to have the other. We "put on righteousness" by putting on Christ Jesus - putting on His righteousness. Certainly NOT our own. Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (KJV) Understanding this concept of "how it works" is crucial to our defense. Think IMPARTED righteousness, vs IMPUTED righteousness. The breastplate would be imputed righteousness. Knowing that we are covered with Jesus' perfect righteousness means knowing that Satan's accusations are worthless. They mean nothing. They cannot wound me, or discourage me, or make me give up the fight - because I know that I am already forgiven of all past sins and will be forgiven if I "stumble" in future.

Faithful unto death ? Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Once again, we use scholars who thinks they know more then, then THE FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT! It is fascinating to me that the Bible continues to express throughout the Bible until the very end the importance and HOLY are THEIR NAMES and TITLE. We cannot do anything without our names. Unfortunately, Afrikan Americans have taken on the subtitle of the slave masters who was force on their ancestor. Names and titles are extremely important to us, yet we think it makes no different to THE ALMIGHTIES. When Jacob received his victory wrestling with YAHSHUA, he was given the name IsraEL in it stood the singular title of THE FATHER. YAHSHUA made it very clear when HE stated these words: I am come in MY FATHER'S NAME, and ye receive ME not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43 Ancient time the name of their Deity was in their name. I have yet to see any one use EL, ELOAH or ELOHIM in pagans people names. Only used by those who served THE MOST HIGH! Again and again we take man's knowledge over THE ALMIGHTIES who Created all of us! We all can think that this is not important, and many will see to late that it is. Even we fight hard to reserve our names as our legacy and think that THE FATHER doesn't? Well, all I have to say it will be so sad that all you have stood for will be nothing because we all truly do not understand the magnitude of who we dealing with. It is YAHWEH'S WORD over Bible scholars you choose! Blessings!

Photodude: Your statement that the NAD will reduce its tithe to the exact same per-cent as the poorest Division is incorrect on two counts: First: The entire rest of the world is on the exact same per-cent of giving. So you could have stated that the reduction was to that of the richest Division of the world. Second: You neglected to understand a second part of the vote in which the NAD agreed that the NAD would be locked in to paying an additional 0.85 % above that of the rest of the world. In brief: The NAD will continue to pay more to the GC than any other portion of the world. This is due to the fact that the NADF has effectively become a mission field that needs more financial support. You may disagree with the amount that the NAD is to pay the GC. But, please do not incorrectly state the facts due to your misunderstanding of the actual vote. In addition this vote was that of people from the entire world. The NAD does not have the votes to force its will on the rest of the world. So, in essence you are being critical of the entire world.

Well, thank you, JoeMo! I don't really enjoy fighting. If I did, more fun would be had going to some antifa rally! I have read quite a bit of EGW. In the last 3-4 years I have gone all the way thru Conflict of the Ages, currently up to vol 5 of the Testimonies (which are more chilling than I imagined ), and several other single books. However, I frequently look up quotes only to find them in the periodicals. I am wondering if I am going to have to read the green books next! What does concern me is that the reading of EGW is getting to very low levels among church members today. I have been informed by one pastor after a ministerial meeting that readership of EGW in the church has dropped to only about 2% of church members even read the writings. All that said, EGW herself said if people seriously studied their Bibles, her writings wouldn't have been needed. I don't believe that means all of her writings, I suspect that much of her writings such as the Testimonies is what she was referring to. I do have some serious doubts about the angel human offspring issue. I just do not see how in a biological sense it is even possible. Angels are not "carbon based" units. They are spirits which capabilities beyond anything we humans are capable, even when they have gone bad for a long time. The only evil angel-human creature out there is a demon possessed human. Further more, to produce an amalgamation, if you will, of angels and humans would have to be a whole new life form. I personally do not believe it is even possible as technically God is our Creator and gives us every breath we take. I do not really think He would permit such an occurrance. The moral consequences of that are mind boggling. Technically, if such as creature did occur, they would have to be eligible for salvation. But evil angels are not. How do you save half of a creature? As i noted before, many of these scenarios would be great scripts for scifi movies, but I do not see them happening in God's universe.