The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[Sojourner]

Did you know that the founder of the Mormons, Joseph Smith was a keen Freemason and that the LDS organized their own masonic lodges?

Did you know that the Mormon temple rituals are adapted from Scottish Rite Freemasonry replete with their own versions of Masonic Aprons and Regalia?

Did you know that members of the Priesthood in the LDS church consider themselves to be the continuation of the Levitical Priesthood in the Old Testament?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Did you know that the founder of the Mormons, Joseph Smith was a keen Freemason and that the LDS organized their own masonic lodges?

Did you know that the Mormon temple rituals are adapted from Scottish Rite Freemasonry replete with their own versions of Masonic Aprons and Regalia?

Did you know that members of the Priesthood in the LDS church consider themselves to be the continuation of the Levitical Priesthood in the Old Testament?

And did you know that there have been Adventist ministers who were members of the Masonic Lodge?? Perhaps Pathfinders is the current version.

[Gail]

Yes... and the way that EGW handled the issue was by telling a Mason that it wasn't right that any man should be addressed as, Worshipful Master.

I believe that Smith incorporated Freemasonry into his church in order to make it more pure (or something).

[Sojourner]

Rudywoofs, I am quite certain there would be a number of SDA's that are current members of the masonic lodge. As I am aware there is no prohibitation on Adventists being members of Fraternal societies be it the Masons or the Buffalos or whoever?

Yet the point is to show that Mormonism is actually founded by someone who used the Masonic lodge to form up their rituals for their priesthood. As I am aware the LDS are the only religious group to have done that?

When I spoke with the Mormon missionaries about it, they suggested to me that the purpose of their ritual is to give people an opportunity to learn spiritual truths by studying it.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

sojourner, would you please explain your reason for introducing the topic?

Do you want to discuss the LDS church's theology? Masonic "rituals"? Or ....?

[Sojourner]

sojourner, would you please explain your reason for introducing the topic?

Do you want to discuss the LDS church's theology? Masonic "rituals"? Or ....?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

in order to have an intelligent discussion, one would first need to identify the Masonic rituals, and what they represent. Then one needs to identify Mormon Temple "rituals.'

If you can succinctly identify those two elements, there might be a correlation. Or there may not.

While I have quite extensive knowledge of the Scottish Rite Masonic brotherhood, I have not been privy to any services or rituals in an LDS Temple, so I don't have any basis for discussing this.

[Gail]

Rudywoofs, I am quite certain there would be a number of SDA's that are current members of the masonic lodge. As I am aware there is no prohibitation on Adventists being members of Fraternal societies be it the Masons or the Buffalos or whoever?

Yet the point is to show that Mormonism is actually founded by someone who used the Masonic lodge to form up their rituals for their priesthood. As I am aware the LDS are the only religious group to have done that?

When I spoke with the Mormon missionaries about it, they suggested to me that the purpose of their ritual is to give people an opportunity to learn spiritual truths by studying it.

Sojourner, I know a fellow whose ministry is to reveal the inner workings of Freemasonry to Christians. Usually he is not well received in mainstream Christian churches when he speaks.

But he was curious about Seventh-Day Adventists because of their tendency NOT to be connected with Freemasonry. My boss gave him something that Mrs White wrote to support his stance.

I believe that she dealt with the issue when she was in Australia. Are you saying that in Aus there are SDAs that are Masons?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

My boss gave him something that Mrs White wrote to support his stance.

For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify the Lord of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.”

Isaiah 8:9-13. {Ev 617.5}

Quote:

There are those who question whether it is right for Christians to belong to the Free Masons and other secret societies. Let all such consider the scriptures just quoted. If we are Christians at all, we must be Christians everywhere, and must consider and heed the counsel given to make us Christians according to the standard of God’s Word....

{Ev 618.1}

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Sojourner]

Whilst I am not aware of any specific individuals that are SDA's and Masons, my research suggests that there is no probibition that would prevent an SDA joining a masonic lodge if they so wished to. When I joined the Salvation Army it was a rule that you could not be a member of the masonic lodge and wear the Salvation Army Uniform, I went away from the Salvation Army and rejoined it several years later and the question had been dropped and I was told that the prohibition now was only for people that wished to apply for Officership (to become a Pastor) in the organization.

What I do know is that in the 1980's a number of Salvationists in Australia were made to choose between their membership in the lodge or the Salvation Army. It still is not clear to me if this was because of official policy or local officers making that decision.

[Gregory Matthews]

Ellen White did speak against SDAss being members of such. The Trustees of the EGW Estate have made the following statement:
 

EARLY IN HER SOJOURN IN AUSTRALIA (1891-1900) ELLEN WHITE WAS CALLED UPON TO GIVE COUNSEL TO A PROMINENT WORKER IN OUR PUBLISHING HOUSE WHO HAD BECOME DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE ACTIVITIES OF THE MASONIC LODGE. THE COUNSEL SHE PRESENTED TO THIS BROTHER LED HIM TO SEVER HIS CONNECTIONS WITH THE LODGE IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT HE HAD ATTAINED THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF HONOR IN THE ORGANIZATION. {2SM 120.1}
WITHOUT CONDEMNING, MRS. WHITE POINTED OUT THAT THE CHRISTIAN CANNOT SERVE TWO MASTERS, OR RENDER ALLEGIANCE TO TWO AUTHORITIES. OUR BROTHER, WHO HAD BECOME SO INVOLVED IN LODGE ACTIVITIES THAT HIS WORK FOR THE CHURCH HAD BEEN SADLY NEGLECTED, RECOGNIZED THE SIMPLE TRUTH IN THE ELLEN G. WHITE COUNSELS, AND HIS CONFIDENCE IN THE MESSAGE WAS CONFIRMED AS MRS. WHITE--UNBEKNOWN TO HERSELF--GAVE THE SECRET SIGN USED ONLY BY MEMBERS OF THE LODGE. HE PROMPTLY SURRENDERED HIS MEMBERSHIP IN THE LODGE, ALTHOUGH HE HAD STOUTLY AFFIRMED ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS THAT NOTHING WOULD SHAKE HIS CONFIDENCE IN THE FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION OR LEAD HIM TO BREAK WITH IT. LOOKING BACK TO THIS EXPERIENCE IN LATER YEARS, HE TESTIFIED THAT THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY MESSAGE COMPLETELY CHANGED HIS LIFE. {2SM 120.2}
AT THIS TIME AND IN THIS CONNECTION, MRS. WHITE WROTE QUITE FULLY CONCERNING THE RELATIONSHIP OF SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS TO SUCH ORGANIZATIONS. THIS WAS PUBLISHED UNDER THE TITLE "SHOULD CHRISTIANS BE MEMBERS OF SECRET SOCIETIES?" IN PAMPHLET FORM, IT HAD WIDE CIRCULATION IN AUSTRALIA AND IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT IT HAS LONG BEEN OUT OF PRINT. THIS PAMPHLET IS REPRINTED HERE IN ITS ENTIRETY.

You will find the above statement in 2 SM page 120.Then in a section beginning on 2 SM page 121 and ending on page 140, she expands on the subject in what was first published as a pamphlet entitled SHOULD CHRISTIANS BE MEMBERS OF SECRET SOCIETIES.

However, the SDA Church today does not generally prohibit its members from also being members of such societies. As a congregational pastor, I once had a member who was also a Mason. But, at that time, he was largely inactive due to health problems.

My personal thinking, which is not based upon objective evidence, is that active Masons are not likely to be active SDAs.

[Gregory Matthews]

Pam said:

 

In order to have an intelligent discussion, one would first need to identify the Masonic rituals, and what they represent. Then one needs to identify Mormon Temple "rituals.'

If you can succinctly identify those two elements, there might be a correlation. Or there may not.

She is quite correct as to the beginning of the above. However, correlation is a different subject. Correlation is often confused with causality. It should be clearly stated that correlation does not demonstrate cause.

I shall make my point with an illustration:

A young elementary school teacher, teaching multiple grades in as small school deep in the woods came up with the idea that reading ability was determined by the size of the students big toe.

To test the above thesis, the teacher first measured the actual size of each students big toe. Then the teacher measured, objectively, the reading ability of each student.

In actual fact, as demonstrated by the above two objective measurements, there was a positive correlation between the size of the students big toe and their reading ability.

It is clear that the above demonstrated that there is a positive correlation between the size of one's big toe and their reading ability, in the above sample. It should also be clear that the above did NOT demonstrate causality.

Who can tell us why it did not demonstrate cause?

Confusion of causality with correlation is one of the most common mistakes that elementary students of statistics make.

By the way, to give credit for the above, see the apocryphal book of GREGORY MATTHEWS who first read about the above experiment in an elementary statistics book.



I trust that you have had your laugh for the day.

Pam, don't take any of this personally. You post a lot of good stuff. The "big toe" experiment is a favorite of mine and I could not resist the opportunity to tell it again.

Keep up the good work.



 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I wasn't trying to refer to a statistical causal relationship; rather, I was referring to an interconnecting relationship. So I think my choice of "correlation" was correct.

(I was the top student in Advanced Statistics in grad school)

[Gregory Matthews]

And, I was simply making an additional comment to enlighten people.

:)