Criticizing spirit

[Stan]

Why do some here have such a criticizing spirit?

[Liz]

Well, off the top of my head. (1) They are hurting so much that they are bitter and don't realize how their words sounds. (2) They really think that they are helping and don't realize how they are coming across. I'm sure there are probably more reasons. 

[JimTN]

When a person finds the Lord and starts reading the Bible, they come to grips with trying to understand Good and Evil -- and how we are supposed to "love the sinner" but "hate the sin".... and like it or not, a born-again person is going to have to come to grips with "hating" sin!  And when they write about it or speak against it, they may not exactly do it in a "lukewarm" manner -- and the people who read it have to deal with the possible intense negative aspect of it.  God Himself has very strong "critical" views of sin and sinners -- it's just the way it is on this planet.

 

Being "critical" is a part of the refining process.

 

Just ask my wife.  <grin>

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I thought convincing/convicting someone of their sins was the job of the Holy Spirit.....not you or me.

 

If someone had come at me with "you're an evil person and gonna burn in hell," and proceeded to list my "sins" because I was a witch, it would have turned me even further from any association whatsoever with Christians.

[CS Granville]

Man by nature is obviously not comfortable looking into the public mirror under a close-up view by the public eye. And this is not limited to pastors and leaders of our church. 

 

Most of them, if not all, would rather want the congregants to shut their mouth, especially if they commit the most grievous sin. They would hate the public mirror and public eye. They rather want to face their own mirror in their solitude and blink their eye before the same mirror, only to deceive themselves that they're okay. And this will compound to self-deception as to believing that he can just do anything and just say: "Don't be judgmental!"

 

And here's the problem: A gross misconception about the concept of criticisms. Criticism(s) must we healthy. And why are we afraid of criticism(s) anyway?

 

Isn't it this criticizing spirit must exist for a reason?

 

The best thing is, we must be intellectually informed and should be settling into the present truth. In order to reach out to the root of any issue at hand, the church or an individual must be able to investigate and to criticize CONSTRUCTIVELY (not destructively) the object of curiosity, only if it is meant for the edification of the church. And the examiner must have that boldness to deal the same issue with the subject or prospect under scrutiny. 

 

To this end, one may be so uncomfortable about criticism(s). But,  a "criticizing spirit" is crucial in the process of correcting and purifying one's soul. After all, the final arbiter of the truth is the Holy Spirit. Therefore, one must fear not of any criticizing spirit.

[JimTN]

I thought convincing/convicting someone of their sins was the job of the Holy Spirit.....not you or me.

 

Titus 1:13 -- "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith..."

 

People are supposed to rebuke sin (sometimes sharply, sometimes not), and then the Holy Spirit will hopefully convict the person of that sin and that person will change their ways.

 

People rebuke, and the Holy Spirit impresses the need to repent.

[Gail]

A pastor I know, when people come to him with criticism, tries to discern the spirit behind the complaint. Good plan!

 

Critical statements will colour people's opinions of whomever/whatever the complaint is about. So it had better be true! And it takes many more positives to wipe out a negative.

 

It would be nice, too, if the person with the complaint would suggest a way to fix the problem and be part of a solution.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Titus 1:13 -- "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith..."

 

People are supposed to rebuke sin (sometimes sharply, sometimes not), and then the Holy Spirit will hopefully convict the person of that sin and that person will change their ways.

 

People rebuke, and the Holy Spirit impresses the need to repent.

 

I understand that's how many people justify their need to point fingers.  

 

I don't agree that everything Paul wrote to Timothy is direction for everyone... (by the way, Paul was telling Timothy to rebuke some of the Cretans for being liars, gluttons, and being so for the sake of money...)

[Gail]

One thing that EGW did and Jesus did is to talk to an offender as if the person was already at the point you wished him/her to be. Instead of bearing down you are lifting up.

 

Even rebuke can be given without crushing someone. Jesus knew who were vipers and He also knew who to rebuke gently (Go, and sin no more). I don't have the discernment of Jesus, so someone like me doesn't do very well with rebuking others.

[Gregory Matthews]

Jim, Pam is on the right track with your cited verse.  Paul's advice to Titus was to a very specific situation.  It was a situation where members of the Church were deeply involved in grave error and for dishonest financial gain.l  See Verse 11.  Your verse should not be generalized to that extent that it applies to everyone at every time.

[Woody]

I would have to be careful judging someone as 'critical' on the web. You would have to spend a lot of personal time with them to make sure what is behind the apparent 'critical spirit'. And anyways - who are we to judge another? But a larger answer is .... people here are no different than anywhere else. Humans are human. Here and there.

[Bravus]

I think perhaps before we presume to hold up a mirror for others, we may need to take a long hard look in it ourselves...

Not sure about others, but there are enough massive logs in my eyes that I need to keep looking in the mirror a while longer... probably the rest of my life.

I'll leave the specks of dust in others' eyes as a matter between them and the Spirit.

[Woody]

YES (to Bravus)

[JoeMo]

Sometimes, I think people who are not satisfied with their own personal spiritual walk take comfort is saying "at least I'm not as much of an infidel/heretic/sinner/hipocryte (choose one) as THAT person".  They highlight another's issues in an appempt to take the spotlight off of themselves.

Sometimes when people cannot effectively respond to a challengs, they feel justified in personally attacking another rather than sticking to the issues.

 

Anyone who thinks differently than me is an idiot.  

[Tom Wetmore]

 

God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethren with sin of far greater  magnitude than He will charge the one who makes a misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethren are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.--Letter 48, 1894.  {3SM 345.2}  

 

 

Do a digital search of EGW's writings just using the 3 key words "criticism" "condemnation" and "Christ"  Read each passage carefully.    The quote above is the first of a dozen like it. 

 

 

[Gail]

Adding to what Bravus has said: the Bible warns us that we condemn others of the things we are guilty of ourselves. That gives food for thought and pause before we move forward.

[Stan]

When ever I see posts that include  Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner...

 

I really have not seen the post in a loving the sinner attitude...  maybe that is just me.

[Gregory Matthews]

Why:

 

There is no one answer that fits all.

 

1)  Some believe that it is their Christian duty to battle with others for their soul.  After all, if the watchman fail to sound the alarm, the watchman will be guilty.  They operate in the name,  so they believe, of the Holy Spirit.

 

2)  Some cannot differentiate between sin and the sinner.   To them, the sinner is sin personified.  On that basis, while they may not acknowledge so, they must hate the sinner.

 

3)  Some feel a great load of guilt.  They cannot believe that their sins were expunged at the cross.  They still feel guilty today.  They accommodate by entering into an action in which they can compare and show to themselves that they are more righteous than the other person.

 

4)  Some like the spiritual power that it gives them. 

 

5)  Some people have no idea as to how to treat others and as to how they present themselves to others.

 

6) Some act in the same manner that others have treated them.

 

7) Some do not understand righteousness by faith and practice a modified righteous righteousness by works.

 

8)  Some believe that they are the Biblical Rod that should be used to beat others into submission.

 

I have not exhausted the answers.  Perhaps none of the above will fit some of the people here?  Perhaps some of the above will fit some?  I Do not know.

 

But, the above are some answers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CS Granville]

I think what matters most when it comes to constructively criticizing the object or subject of curiosity is for the examiner to demonstrate compassion and humility.

 

With these two traits, such one should have the ability to listen, to discern (as a matter of gift) and to find ways to see beyond the issue at hand with care. I would not want to use the word "LOVE" in this respect all because, for many, it is too big a word  and too abstract to comprehend and it is perhaps the most abused word of all time. After all,  "love'" is about Jesus and of Jesus  -  nothing more, nothing less.

 

If only we can internalize, nonetheless,  to view the concept of "hating toward sin and loving toward the sinner" through the eyes of how Jesus distinctly deals with sin and the sinner, criticism(s) would just become a healthy factor for one's Christian experience. And let me tell you this: it's not too late to have such reviving spirit in the process of refining even affecting the examiner's soul above guilt-driven recompense, that which leads one to foster the fortitude of reciprocity as to healing. Valid criticism(s), depending on how you convey it to the subject, must bring moral and social responsibility  to effect such purported mutual healing.

[JoeMo]

There have been a few prophecy-based threads on here that have been quite animated; but not mean. The posters are pretty passionate about prophecy (myself being among them); but I think they have pretty much stuck to "what does the Lord say" rather than "I'm right and you're wrong, dummy".  They feel like some of the Sabbath School classes I've attended!

[JimTN]

As a person grows in Christ, they will understand that there are many, many different ways to "rebuke" someone, or rebuke an idea, or a public sin -- mostly I've learned that I am just sad to see sins happening, and sad to know that God will someday punish them...

People have their free will, and boy are they using it on this planet.

[Tom Wetmore]

If we look at God ultimate act of judgment is exacting justice as punishing and destroying evil we are more likely to rush to judgment now and feel a need to lend Him a helping hand before the time is ripe for judgment.  Reading those statements by EGW she points out that by do so by our acts of criticism, condemnation and unwisely rebuking others, we foreclose souls hope and opportunity of redemption, pushing those most in need away from the One who can restore them.

 

But if we recognize that God's justice and mercy are one and the same that Divine justice is about setting things right, fixing what is broken, healing the sick and wounded,  and creating all things new again, redemption takes on a whole new hue of grace which we are to become dispensers of.  Extending grace  builds up, uplifts and draws  all toward the One who restores the victims of sin to full life as He meant it to be.  We are all victims of sin in need of the same restoration.  

[JoeMo]

I have found that encouragement to those who are open enough to talk to me about their problems (sins?) works much better than rebuke or criticism.  I respect people that have the guts to talk to me about "bad" stuff in their lives.  I have enough bad stuff in my own life - who am I to criticize?

 

Sometimes just a smile and/or a hand on the shoulder and/or a short prayer (if you know they are believers) is all you need to comfort them.

 

I don't ever remember Jesus rebuking someone who came to Him with a "problem".

[Gregory Matthews]

A rebuke is most effective when a person has a positive relationship with the person.

 

The Internet, such as Club Adventist does not always lend itself to building such.

[LifeHiscost]

 stuck to "what does the Lord say" rather than "I'm right and you're wrong, dummy".

Who'd ever do that? Why I can't believe it. None of US would do that.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!