Prosperity

[Sojourner]

Just a thought, 

 

How would you feel if SDA President Ted Wilson revealed that he lived the same lavish lifestyle as Creflo Dollar in that he owned two Rolls-Royces, a Private Jet, and real estate such as a million dollar home in Atlanta, a $2.5m million home in Demarest NJ, and a $2.5m home in Manhattan, all this stuff being paid for by funds raised within the SDA denomination? 

 

Would you be in agreement, disagree or not really care at all one way or the other? 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'd choke on my muesli...

[Stan]

Are you trying to start rumours about Wilson?

[TruthSeeker123]

I'd be flabbergasted, mindboggled, dumbfounded and quite stunned!

[Sojourner]

Not keen on Prosperity then? 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

it's not an issue of "prosperity"; rather, it would be an issue of the *source* of the prosperity...

[Robert]

it's not an issue of "prosperity"; rather, it would be an issue of the *source* of the prosperity...

 

 

Good point....

[Gregory Matthews]

Before I made any judgment, I would want to know more about the source of his money/property.  I am reminded of a man I once knew.  As a destitute college student, a rich relative once gave him an older car the relative no longer needed.   While the car was older, as a new vehicle, it had been  very expensive.  The student kept it because it was mechanically sound and exactly served his immediate need.

 

I am also thinking of a retired SDA minister who lives very  well and beyond what would normally be expected for a retired SDA minister.  Major purchases   in his life come from an adult child who earns a very large income.

 

So, I would want to know more about the source of income.

 

I would also want to know more about how your illustrated person used the resources that were available to him.  To what extent does he use those resources for others.

 

In the example of my retired minister,  Within the last year, he used money that was available to him, to purchase a late model SUV for a woman in need of such transportation.  He gave it to her along with funds for registration and insurance for a year.

 

Reading the OP again, I see that you said that the money was raised within the SDA denomination.  On that basis, I would have more than a major problem, regardless of anything else.

[TruthSeeker123]

Quite frankly, in the SDA church one does not expect one's ministers to be rich and would question the motive of any minister to amass "worldly" wealth. (At least that's what I was raised to believe and what I've come across in SDA history.) Why? "For where your treasure is, there your heart is also," Christ said. You expect your pastors to live a life of self-sacrifice ploughing any surplus money back into the cause.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I've known of a number of Adventist ministers/evangelists/officials who lived in the lap of luxury.  By and large, most all had spouses who also worked, or they had inherited wealth from parents or other relatives.

 

I know it's easy to judge by outward appearances, but there's usually a whole lot more to the story.  

[TruthSeeker123]

I know it's easy to judge by outward appearances, but there's usually a whole lot more to the story.

So, true!

[Kevin H]

Same idea, I would not mind the lifestyle depending on things such as the source of the income and what else is behind the choice. The Voice of Prophecy team use to travel in a very expensive and fancy car. Turns out that for the number of people and amount of equipment that style of car was the most cost effective. Buses would have been too big and costly and more modest vehicles would have been too small and need a number of them.  

 

I have also come to place in life where I feel that probably what would be wise for our would be pastors to do is to first build up an income and then go into the ministry.

[Gregory Matthews]

Sometimes we do not know the entire story.

 

In the last year of my employment at the VA hospital in Denver, it became evident to my wife and I that my vision and therefore driving skills, were not sufficient to some of the conditions under which I was driving back and forth to work.  This was one aspect of our decision that I should retire.

 

As we looked into the future, we felt that it was likely that my vision would not improve and might decrease.  To prepare for that future I would need to be driving a vehicle that had some of the additional safety helps that were    coming out on some of the brand-new vehicles.  WE also felt that we would be best able to purchase a new vehicle while I was still employed.

 

So, we searched for a vehicle that had the most of those safety features.  We excluded luxury vehicles.  We ended up deciding to chose between a Ford model and a Nissan model.  After going for a test drive in the Ford, we decided against it for reasons other than drivability.

 

In order to purchase the Nissan that we wanted, we had to have it specially built, with the optional added safety feathers and to purchase that more expensive model of the specific Nissan that we wanted.  Our decision was controlled by the availability of the safety features that we felt I needed to continue driving.

 

It is possible that someone could look at that vehicle and tell us that we could have purchased a Nissan at a lower price and given the difference to the church.  No, we could not have  done so at that time, and had the safety features that we felt I needed.  I do not think that God expects me to give up driving just so the Church can have a bit more money.

 

Sometimes people simply do not know the entire story.

 

NOTE:  At the time I was working, my wife and I were driving more than 30,000 miles a year on our two cars.   So, at that time, all of our vehicles were hybrids--I have owned four (4) hybrids, one of which I still own.  They cost a bit more to purchase.  But, with the savings in gasoline and the Federal and Colorado tax credits, all of then saved money in the long run.  For people in other circumstances, that might not have been true.

[Geoarrge]

I'd say it's morally extremely dangerous to get into the practice of looking over our neighbor's shoulder and presuming to dictate how they should manage their wealth.    Deciding how best to use our own energy and resources is more than enough to keep ourselves busy. 

In this scenario, I'd certainly want to make inquiries and find out the president's salary, and what justification lies behind that amount.  Then I might be inclined to join the people calling for the GC to revise its upper-level compensation structure, and possibly have Wilson fired.  But it would be wrong to harass Ted Wilson personally over what he already (hypothetically) has.  How he keeps or disposes of his legal property is up to him and his conscience. 

 

Are we not a race of creators made in the image of the Supreme Creator?  Stop fussing about who's not sharing his pie and bake another pie. 

[LifeHiscost]

 

Are we not a race of creators made in the image of the Supreme Creator?  Stop fussing about who's not sharing his pie and bake another pie. 

I recognize only One as Creator, but am ambiguous about the word "procreation". Full agreement with baking another pie and grateful to those who are willing to mentor that all may be able to bake their own p1e.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

I would not be too concerned over the fact that TW had a ton of money, big house, big car, private jet, etc., if he does. I would be concerned with how he used it. If I was so motivated (I'm not), I might try to find out how he got that money. We had a pastor that lived on the meager salary paid by the church, but people in our church were crazy about the guy; and the rich ones gave him stuff - nice stuff. I have another friend in the ministry that was an entrepreneur and made serious bundle in the early .com business; and then became a pastor. He lives pretty high on the hog cuz he can afford too; but he is generous (IMO to a fault) with people who need help. Example - he gave a brand new car to a family whose car was totalled and without insurance.

Many people look down on prosperity when they only look at it as money. Prosperity comes in many forms; money being only one form. people can be prosperous in grace, in spiritual gifting, in joy, in children and grandchildren, and in the satisfaction they get from work. Money is NOT the root of all evil; LOVE of money (i.e., covetousness) is.

I also think one's compensation should be commensurate with the job responsibilities. The CEO of a denomination, like the CEO of a large corporation, is justified in getting a larger salary than a staff pastor.

[joeb]

Not keen on Prosperity then? 

So to you prosperity means flaunting wealth?  I've known some wealthy people who, other than the car they drove on special occasions, lived no differently than a middle class person who lived within their means and were saving for their retirement.  It wasn't until I got to know them pretty well, and I was a poor man whom they accepted as an equal, that I began to understand just how wealthy they were.  They were very prosperous.  They just didn't flaunt it.   Being wealthy and flaunting wealth are two different things, and your example conflates them.

 

Flaunting wealth is ego driven.  Being wealthy can be nothing more than being in the right place at the right time and working hard to capitalize on the opportunity.