Student Power

[Gregory Matthews]

In Colorado the Jefferson County School Board  voted to consider making changes in the Advanced Placement History Class that is taught in their High Schools.

 

Last Wednesday some 400 students walked out of school in protest and began picketing along a major Colorado road..

 

Thursday some 700 students walked out.

 

Friday some 1,000 students walked out.

 

Today a large number of teachers have reported that they will be unable to teach today.

 

The Jefferson County high schools have been closed by the School Board for today and tomorrow.

 

NOTE:  Tomorrow is the official day by which students in class determine the State funding for the next fiscal year.  By closing the schools to morrow, the closed schools will be allowed to have their next fiscal year funding determined by another day's attendance.

 

 

[Igakusei]

Good for them. Glad to see students standing up for academic integrity and resisting attempts to turn textbook lessons into propaganda.

[joeb]

Just what are the changes?  To support or oppose what's going on without any info seems a little foolish to me.  Are the students opposed to advanced classes on our Constitution?  Are they opposed to more socialist agendas?  What are they opposed to?

[Igakusei]

Just what are the changes?  To support or oppose what's going on without any info seems a little foolish to me.  Are the students opposed to advanced classes on our Constitution?  Are they opposed to more socialist agendas?  What are they opposed to?

 

Here's the controversial part of the proposal

 

 

 

Review criteria shall include the following: instructional materials should present the most current factual information accurately and objectively. Theories should be distinguished from fact. Materials should promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free enterprise system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights. Materials should not encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law. Instructional materials should present positive aspects of the United States and its heritage. Content pertaining to political and social movements in history should present balanced and factual treatment of the positions.

 

So it's hard to say exactly what they were planning on changing, because it didn't get that far. This paragraph could be viewed as harmless, but it could also be viewed as a carefully-worded way to allow the incorporation of more nationalistic propaganda into the curriculum.

[Neil D]

Are we talking about class 101 or an upper level class?

You are correct in that it doesn't look like much to protest about....but I thing there is more to this than meets the eye...the kids are smart, and they know when they are being railroaded....wonder why parents aren't involved in discussing this with thier kids and the teachers.....

[joeb]

Are we talking about class 101 or an upper level class?

You are correct in that it doesn't look like much to protest about....but I thing there is more to this than meets the eye...the kids are smart, and they know when they are being railroaded....wonder why parents aren't involved in discussing this with thier kids and the teachers.....

And students also have been taught to dislike their own country.  I've been sat in classes where the teacher flat out taught the students that their country is evil, and has always been evil.  On top of that she was teaching that socialism is the cure to all the ills our country has.   As far as I was concerned she should have been arrested as a traitor to her own country for teaching this.   She was also flunking me out of her class simply because I'd speak up and oppose her agenda.   I've studied our history quite a bit and I'd point out how the facts differed greatly from what she was teaching and she'd get extremely angry about it.  She couldn't deny what I'd have to say, but she wouldn't change her agenda either.  That's why she was giving me a failing grade.  I'd compare the paper's she would give us to write with the ones written by those around me and while I'd be given a failing grade on the papers mine were better written and I'd given much more support for what I had to say.   So, my research, grammar, spelling, etc... were all much better, but I'd get D's and F's and those around me would get A's.  

 

She was teaching that our country is evil, but she was very opposed to free speech within her own classroom.  In other words, she was opposed to the very thing that makes our country great.  

[Igakusei]

I'd like to see some of your papers.

[Neil D]

And students also have been taught to dislike their own country.  I've been sat in classes where the teacher flat out taught the students that their country is evil, and has always been evil.  On top of that she was teaching that socialism is the cure to all the ills our country has.   As far as I was concerned she should have been arrested as a traitor to her own country for teaching this.   She was also flunking me out of her class simply because I'd speak up and oppose her agenda.   I've studied our history quite a bit and I'd point out how the facts differed greatly from what she was teaching and she'd get extremely angry about it.  She couldn't deny what I'd have to say, but she wouldn't change her agenda either.  That's why she was giving me a failing grade.  I'd compare the paper's she would give us to write with the ones written by those around me and while I'd be given a failing grade on the papers mine were better written and I'd given much more support for what I had to say.   So, my research, grammar, spelling, etc... were all much better, but I'd get D's and F's and those around me would get A's.  

 

She was teaching that our country is evil, but she was very opposed to free speech within her own classroom.  In other words, she was opposed to the very thing that makes our country great.  

 

 

Never have seen a teacher teach that the country was 'evil'....I have been in classes where the country did some wrong things, and took up some wrong policies. I've seen teachers teach courses that if certain principles were adopted, that the country would have been better...I've seen tradition and new ideals clash.....I've even seen students totally miss the goal of the class and  misread the objective of the class....But if a student were to put in the work, I've never seen a student flunk out, especially when that student is putting in the effort...and complain to the principle/someone in administration that showed the student was putting in effort and not come out with a C- grade.....

All I can say is that your experience sets a new bar......

[Igakusei]

Never have seen a teacher teach that the country was 'evil'....I have been in classes where the country did some wrong things, and took up some wrong policies. I've seen teachers teach courses that if certain principles were adopted, that the country would have been better...I've seen tradition and new ideals clash.....I've even seen students totally miss the goal of the class and  misread the objective of the class....But if a student were to put in the work, I've never seen a student flunk out, especially when that student is putting in the effort...and complain to the principle/someone in administration that showed the student was putting in effort and not come out with a C- grade.....

All I can say is that your experience sets a new bar......

 

Yeah, I'm not going to say that those teachers aren't out there, but I haven't met them. I had a number of professors in college that I disagreed with on a variety of issues. I had a philosophy professor that was the quintessential liberal hippie, and he gave me a 195/200 (by FAR the highest grade in the class) on my final essay, one in which I defended a fairly conservative Christian viewpoint.

 

I also saw a variety of students thoughtlessly regurgitate garbage in a manner illustrating that they hadn't engaged with the class at all, and then complain about the bias of the professor when they were graded poorly. So that's why I'd like to see Joeb's papers, because given my interactions with him in the past I'm pretty sure he falls into the latter category. But I could be wrong, only one way to find out.

[joeb]

Yeah, I'm not going to say that those teachers aren't out there, but I haven't met them. I had a number of professors in college that I disagreed with on a variety of issues. I had a philosophy professor that was the quintessential liberal hippie, and he gave me a 195/200 (by FAR the highest grade in the class) on my final essay, one in which I defended a fairly conservative Christian viewpoint.

 

I also saw a variety of students thoughtlessly regurgitate garbage in a manner illustrating that they hadn't engaged with the class at all, and then complain about the bias of the professor when they were graded poorly. So that's why I'd like to see Joeb's papers, because given my interactions with him in the past I'm pretty sure he falls into the latter category. But I could be wrong, only one way to find out.

LOL.  

[joeb]

Yeah, I'm not going to say that those teachers aren't out there, but I haven't met them. I had a number of professors in college that I disagreed with on a variety of issues. I had a philosophy professor that was the quintessential liberal hippie, and he gave me a 195/200 (by FAR the highest grade in the class) on my final essay, one in which I defended a fairly conservative Christian viewpoint.

 

I also saw a variety of students thoughtlessly regurgitate garbage in a manner illustrating that they hadn't engaged with the class at all, and then complain about the bias of the professor when they were graded poorly. So that's why I'd like to see Joeb's papers, because given my interactions with him in the past I'm pretty sure he falls into the latter category. But I could be wrong, only one way to find out.

I have to say one more thing on this.  

 

I've taken college level logic classes and had my papers read in class because of how I can construct arguments.  Logical argument construction requires the ability to think things through and see both sides of an argument.  

 

To tell the truth, I see many of your posts as mindless regurgitation of of garbage.   But, I can at least see why both of us see the other one as doing so.  Why is that?  Because both of us have basic assumptions through which we see the universe that are polar opposites.   Thus, that which I accept as true you see as garbage, and that which you see as truth, I see as garbage.   Nothing new.  I've seen it hundreds of times before and been attacked many times for being "stupid" because I have the polar opposite basic assumptions of my "opponent".  

 

It all boils down to no matter how "logical" a person is, if they start with a false assumption they can only come to a false conclusion, and we both think the other person has false basic assumptions.  

[Igakusei]

Name one assumption that I have that you think is false.

 

Please don't say something silly like I assume that the Bible is false, or I assume that there is no god, because I assume neither of those things. I doubt that I make any assumptions about reality that you don't also make.

[CoAspen]

I have to say one more thing on this.  

 

I've taken college level logic classes and had my papers read in class because of how I can construct arguments.  Logical argument construction requires the ability to think things through and see both sides of an argument.  

 

To tell the truth, I see many of your posts as mindless regurgitation of of garbage.   But, I can at least see why both of us see the other one as doing so.  Why is that?  Because both of us have basic assumptions through which we see the universe that are polar opposites.   Thus, that which I accept as true you see as garbage, and that which you see as truth, I see as garbage.   Nothing new.  I've seen it hundreds of times before and been attacked many times for being "stupid" because I have the polar opposite basic assumptions of my "opponent".  

 

It all boils down to no matter how "logical" a person is, if they start with a false assumption they can only come to a false conclusion, and we both think the other person has false basic assumptions.  

  Are you also trying to be a comedian?

[Neil D]

Had a computer teacher tell me-

 

The rule for programing is this- gigo....IOWs, garbage in, only garbage comes out.....but if you really want to foul things up, use a computer.......

If we don't use our senses correctly, we will arrive at a foul concluision....That's why I rely on God's 10 goals for relationship....You know them as the 10 Commandments....If what I say comes out hurtful, I am quite honestly "killing" some one...And it's a way for me to realize that I am making assumptions that are harmful to relationships....It kinda teaches me to curb my tongue.....I know, too many people just are not willing to do this....and some claim to be the Savior's followers.....