teresaq Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 Many who till the soil fail to secure adequate returns because of their neglect. Their orchards are not properly cared for, the crops are not put in at the right time, and a mere surface work is done in cultivating the soil. Their ill success they charge to the unproductiveness of the land. False witness is often borne in condemning land that, if properly worked, would yield rich returns. The narrow plans, the little strength put forth, the little study as to the best methods, call loudly for reform.{MH 193.3} Let proper methods be taught to all who are willing to learn. If any do not wish you to speak to them of advanced ideas, let the lessons be given silently. Keep up the culture of your own land. Drop a word to your neighbors when you can, and let the harvest be eloquent in favor of right methods. Demonstrate what can be done with the land when properly worked.{MH 193.4} There are some very persuasive arguments in favor of a no-till, leave the soil alone approach. Chalker-Scott in the comments section of her post on lasagna gardening says, . . . double digging (the equivalent of tilling in agriculture) disrupts natural soil building. No-till agriculture is increasingly preferred as being more protective of the soil ecosystem. I think the same philosophy could be applied to home gardens as well. You’re right, you can boost production with a more aggressive approach to soil amendment – a similar argument is often made in conventional agriculture (compared to organic agriculture) to till, use excessive fertilizers, pesticides, etc. I guess it depends on how you regard the soil – as a medium for growing vegetables or as an ecosystem (and I’m not being judgmental). It’s a philosophical choice. No-till agriculture advocates argue that tilling oxidizes organic matter leading to a loss in soil fertility and the creation of carbon dioxide which, in turn, leads to global warming. A case can also be made that tilling creates a soil “crust” that interferes with water penetration. And tilling disrupts mycelial networks and other soil organisms that, research has shown, form important symbiotic relationships with plant roots. But what about heavily compacted soils? How do you turn a lawn or driveway into a garden? It’s in these cases that I, in the past, have used double digging. Double digging proponents would argue that the practice should be distinguished from tilling in that, unlike tilling, you don’t invert the soil structure as much when you double dig. Double digging keeps the same soil profile while loosening heavy compaction. Double-digging advocates distance themselves from the use of roto-tilling machines which invert deeper layers of soil with surface layers that contain more organic matter. But there are alternatives to double digging and tilling that will break up compacted soils. Scott Kleinrock at the Huntington Ranch turned a former construction parking lot into a productive edible landscape without double digging or tilling. Kleinrock used what I’d call a kind of toolkit of de-compaction strategies: The application of a thick mulch (Chalker-Scott suggests a minimum of 12 inches). It’s surprising how many earthworms start doing the tilling for you with a thick mulch layer. Planting soil busting cover crops with thick tap roots like Daikon radish The use of a broadfork or deep spader Peaceful Valley’s “Deep Spader” A broadfork in action Broadforks and deep spaders get air and water into compacted soils without the damage tilling can do. Unfortunately broadforks and deep spaders are very expensive (around $200) and heavy. The deep spader Kleinrock used came from Peaceful Valley Farm and Garden Supply. I’ve tried it and it works nicely, though it’s still hard labor. If you knew how to weld you could probably make a home brew deep spader or broadfork. I’ve also successfully used a regular, inexpensive garden spading fork in moderately compacted soils. This is clearly a topic on which reasonable people can disagree, but the no-till folks seem to have the upper hand in terms of the science. As with all gardening problems, though, context is king. Environmental factors and economic issues (those expensive broadforks) intersect in our urban gardens in complex ways. You have to make up your own mind. I’d say if you’re going to double-dig do it only as a last resort and after considering all the alternatives. While, under some circumstances, I might double-dig I would never till with a roto-tiller or invert soil structure with a shovel. But after seeing the dramatic improvement in soil at the Huntington Ranch in less than a year, I’m more inclined to try de-compaction alternatives. You could also just build raised beds and import better soil (though that strategy gets expensive). Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
joeb Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I wouldn't really call what the guy in the picture with the broadfork is doing no-till. He is tilling the land, he just isn't using a rototiller or a plow. They talk about mulching, which is very good for the soil but leave out composting, at least in this short segment on the subject. When I was a kid we had a huge garden, and a huge compost pile by the time spring came around. We had some of the best produce around from our gardens too. I got spoiled back then and still find the produce in the grocery stores really lacking in quality, taste, and size. Our compost piles were probably 6'-8' tall and 15' or so in diameter. I can still remember how I hated crawling on top of those piles with a pitchfork to turn everything in the pile over every month or so. It was a lot of hard nasty work, but the gardens we had were very good. teresaq 1 Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Aliensanctuary Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Although on just a small scale, I would take standard-sized trash cans. punch a few holes near the bottom, then slowly layer them with table scraps, bags of soil from Home Depot, bags of steer manure, bags of compost, and a dozen or so worms. After a season of "composting", I would plant mainly tomatoes, plus a few berry plants and strawberries in the cans for a temporary home. I think the worms did a pretty good job breaking down the table scraps, and being captive, they didn't run away. I've thought about digging pits for the trash cans to get them out of sight and maybe putting a greenhouse over them. That would be a lot of work digging pits, plus, the landlord might not appreciate the holes. I've also used wading pools filled with my home-made soil and planted strawberries in those, but that's still rather unsightly, too. I've been thinking about getting a rototiller for a big garden, but I'd kind of like to avoid machines. A raised bed tends to need more water, so ground level might be better. So maybe a row of original dirt could be scooped out, a foot or two wide and about 6 inches deep or so, replaced with good soil, then covered with a long structure with plastic, or preferably glass, that can be open to air in the daytime. This would still have to be done on a small scale. Plastic would soon deteriorate, while glass would be permanent. In cold weather a person could run a heat tape along the inside. Another small-scale possibility would be to use a post-hole digger to make six-inch holes a foot or two deep, fill the holes with good soil, then plant individual plants in the filled holes. Or, how about making a raised bed, but lowering it so its top is ground level to reduce watering needs. A beveled trench could be dug on the outside from ground level to the base of the material used to make the "raised" bed, be it wood, plastic, or concrete. I tend to be stingy with garden water to keep the bill down, so would like to find an economical solution for growing a small garden in zone 7-8. teresaq 1 Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
teresaq Posted October 21, 2014 Author Posted October 21, 2014 Decaying wood is supposed to act like a sponge holding water. A small scale hugelkultur might be what you would like to consider AS. I'll start a thread on hugelkultur and you can see if that is something you would like to consider in some way. As long as you feed the worms they have no intentions of running away. Mine not only haven't gone anywhere, when I get conditions right they multiply. I'm in the process of learning and have a side strip I am able to experiment with. My "hugelkultur" was anything but the major production many have done since I had mostly twigs and small branches of various sizes. It did do better than the surrounding clay for what was planted in it tho. I tried to respect the drought conditions and my little wannabe garden showed it, besides not being a good site for a garden. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
teresaq Posted October 21, 2014 Author Posted October 21, 2014 I wouldn't really call what the guy in the picture with the broadfork is doing no-till. He is tilling the land, he just isn't using a rototiller or a plow. Maybe we need a dictionary? I'm thinking tilling is used in the sense of turning the soil, where the broadfork is aerating the soil. Apparently there are plants that will break up hard, clay soils also which can then be cut off at ground level leaving the roots to decompose in the ground leaving air pockets for future plants. LynnDel and rudywoofs (Pam) 2 Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Aliensanctuary Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 hugelkultur The links connected with hugelkultur and permaculture were very informative. With hugelkultur a person would need to find a fair amount of topsoil in order to cover the piles of decaying wood. I wonder what the lifespan of one of those piles is. I suppose the topsoil could be pulled off and used to cover a new pile of wood. According to some of the sources, pine, fir, and oak aren't the best to use, which we have an almost unlimited supply, but we do have some ash. I really appreciate your suggestion, TQ, and will likely try the hugelkultur method, not in town where we are renting, but on the 51 acres of land we own in the country. The zone we live in is supposed to have up to 80 inches of precipitation a year, but we haven't actually received that much for a while. With long, dry summers, a no-water garden is important, especially with new California laws regulating and taxing water pumped out of private wells. teresaq 1 Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
joeb Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 AlienSanctuary, I don't think the pit idea for composting will work. The reason for that is that the composting process requires air. Burying it underground would block all the airflow through the compost. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
joeb Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Maybe we need a dictionary? I'm thinking tilling is used in the sense of turning the soil, where the broadfork is aerating the soil. Apparently there are plants that will break up hard, clay soils also which can then be cut off at ground level leaving the roots to decompose in the ground leaving air pockets for future plants. Tilling is simply working the soil. It can be breaking it up, turning it over, rototilling, etc.... It's a very inclusive word. I actually did look at a dictionary to make sure what I said was accurate. No-till in farming is not breaking up the ground in any way except to put the seed under the soil. Google "no-till seed drills" and take a look at the images section of the results. They show some of them in use. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
teresaq Posted October 23, 2014 Author Posted October 23, 2014 The links connected with hugelkultur and permaculture were very informative. With hugelkultur a person would need to find a fair amount of topsoil in order to cover the piles of decaying wood. I wonder what the lifespan of one of those piles is. I suppose the topsoil could be pulled off and used to cover a new pile of wood. According to some of the sources, pine, fir, and oak aren't the best to use, which we have an almost unlimited supply, but we do have some ash. I really appreciate your suggestion, TQ, and will likely try the hugelkultur method, not in town where we are renting, but on the 51 acres of land we own in the country. The zone we live in is supposed to have up to 80 inches of precipitation a year, but we haven't actually received that much for a while. With long, dry summers, a no-water garden is important, especially with new California laws regulating and taxing water pumped out of private wells. If there is enough topsoil what you suggest is exactly what is done. The topsoil is pulled off and lain to one side til the end where it is put back on upside down. Ideally. Depending on what is put in the lifespan is 20-30 years. My little wanna-be will be a couple of years given it is mostly 1-inch or so twigs. But it has been fun experimenting, and as I said, it did better than the plants on the surrounding ground. I also live in Cali and know what you mean. Dig around more in that site, the discussion side, and you should get more ideas. As long as the wood is in contact with dirt it will continue to decompose. I don't do the traditional composting of one spot and turning, etc. I just put kitchen scraps under a layer of leaves/yard debris, keep moist and let worms (and other creatures, some of which I haven't figured out to get rid of) incorporate it with the earth. It is so nice to pull back the leaves to "bury" the scraps and see the worms on the surface, some very small, some huge and fat. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Aliensanctuary Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I just put kitchen scraps under a layer of leaves/yard debris, keep moist and let worms (and other creatures, some of which I haven't figured out to get rid of) incorporate it with the earth. I also prefer to hire nice worms to make and turn the compost rather than use the higher temperature more labor-intensive method. A rototiller might be nice to break up the soil for hugelkultur, but the human-powered shovel might provide better exercise and certainly at much lower cost. Now, if I could create these beds down by the creek on our acreage where there is an old log jam, and where, if the piles did need water, it wouldn't have to be pumped. We'd just need a way to keep the bears and deer away from the tastiness of a remote garden. teresaq 1 Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
teresaq Posted October 25, 2014 Author Posted October 25, 2014 I don't know about the bears, but I came across something about a string fence that kept deer from jumping it. I don't know if I kept it in my files or not even tho I don't have that problem. I'm sure there's something about keeping bears from gardens online...other than sitting out there with a shotgun. Some have heavy machinery to make their hugels. Hugels are also used in a variety of ways to solve problem areas. Putting it by water is the most excellent solution, tho. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Moderators LynnDel Posted October 25, 2014 Moderators Posted October 25, 2014 This is my all-time favorite compost bin, used over the last 14 years. It is easy to build, easy to fill, easy to plant in, if that's my choice; easy to empty or turn the compost, if that's my choice. It consists of five 3-foot-square frames that lock into each other as you stack them. I've had six of them, built four myself. I didn't bother adding any kind of wood sealant after the first two. I'm looking forward to building some more soon. http://www.sunset.com/garden/backyard-projects/build-perfect-compost-bin teresaq 1 Quote LD
teresaq Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 Nice! For those building them, LynnDel, the worst wood for a hugel in terms of breaking down, is the best for these compost bins. Funny how things work out. LOL LynnDel 1 Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Moderators LynnDel Posted October 26, 2014 Moderators Posted October 26, 2014 Yes, isn't that the way? But it makes sense. I am looking forward to seeing if you find the info about the string deer fence, Teresa. Quote LD
teresaq Posted October 27, 2014 Author Posted October 27, 2014 I found it and the source, but am looking for it again since I don't remember where. But then again I've been going through some of my files trying to organize so.... LynnDel 1 Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Aliensanctuary Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 We have a similar compost bin, but made out of plastic parts that make it easy to dismantle. I think it came from the city of Sacramento. I hired more worms to turn the food scraps into compost, plus, while they were doing their thing, I grew some squash plants in it. My idea for a deer fence was to use standard T fence posts, slide a metal pipe over them, and string electric fence wire 1-foot apart up to about 8 or 10 feet high. I'm not sure how high deer can jump, but I think it's at least six feet. I wouldn't energize the wires, it's just a somewhat visible barrier that is more or less permanent. (Now for the bears, maybe a chain link fence with some mean junkyard dogs might keep them away from a tasty garden. We have already had some bear encounters, but they were more afraid of us than we were of them. One bear broke into our house after we moved away, then broke a jar of health noodles that we left in there. We just happened to drive up to do some work there when we heard breaking glass. I opened the door, startled the bear, and it took off running...towards us. Fortunately it wanted to get away from us, and the dog, who chased it away. That bear must have been desperately hungry to try to eat some health noodles from the health food store.) I've been thinking about the possibility of covering the hugel beds with a frame made of two sliding glass doors fastened at the top and the ends covered. In warm weather the sliders could be left open, but in cooler weather they could be closed, except to let rain in. Seems like the beds running north-south would allow the plants on either side to get some sunshine. Might have to recess the hugel beds to permit enough walking room inside, unless just by opening the slider a person could reach behind the non-sliding area. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Moderators LynnDel Posted October 27, 2014 Moderators Posted October 27, 2014 We have dozens of deer around here, and people will fence a small garden, maybe 10x20 feet, with a six-foot high fence and keep the deer out successfully. However, if the space is bigger, the deer do jump over the fence. I have seen some extend the visual height of their six foot fence by attaching yellow caution tape to three foot extensions above the fence. It's ugly, but it must work, because they haven't taken it down. teresaq 1 Quote LD
Aliensanctuary Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 ...three foot extensions above the fence. A person might string electric fence wire between post extensions, then hang small, lightweight sparkly danglers from it, or even short strips of caution tape. teresaq 1 Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
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