Sojourner

Future of the SDA on Alcohol Consumption.

   24 members have voted

  1. 1. If the General Confernence announced that Alcohol consumption would now be permitted for members, would you resign from membership in the SDA?

    • Yes
      1
    • No
      21
    • I don't know
      2

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27 posts in this topic

If the General Conference were to meet and it was decided that the prohibition on alcohol for members would end, would you retain your membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church? 

Deroypart and Ronaldmync like this

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Would the General  Conference do such?  That is not the way that things work in the SDA Church.

 

Reality:  There are  many people who  drink beverage alcohol and remain members of their local SDA Church.

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I know of SDA pastors who drink wine and champagne on occasion... 

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As Gregory suggested, the probability is extremely unlikely because basically this is not the way things happen in the Church.

That said, considering that single possibility, I think that there would have to be a whole lot of other changes in the Church before such a thing would happen or even be possible. To envision that chain of events suggests to me that it wouldn't be the same Church that we know now.

Naomi likes this

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For clarity, I would not resign my membership. I might bring some wine to the next chuch pot-luck, though.   :bdunno:

Sojourner likes this

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The Church Manual allows for church discipline for not only consuming alcohol but for selling it.  Simply eliminating that from the Church Manual would be a major task as big, if not bigger, than female ordination.

Naomi likes this

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The CHURCH MANUAL, as it is presently used in North America does not govern the conduct of individual congregations, in actual practice.  Yes, people will disagree with me on that.  Some will say that I am wrong and they are probably in congregations that at least make a surface attempt to abide by it.  Other will say that it should govern the conduct of congregation.

 

But, the fact remains that there are SDAs who remain members in so-called good standing who do drink some beverage alcohol.

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Yes, as I said, in order for that to happen there would have to be some rather substantial shifts in a number of significant area of the Church to even get that kind of change through all of the preliminary vetting and philisophical direction of the Church. In short, the hypothetical Adventist Church where that would or even could happen as an official action would so very different from what we are now that it would be hardly recognizable as the same denomination.

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I just hope that Jesus doesn't show up to potluck and change water into wine to keep the party going. He would definitely bring the wrath of this church down on himself :)

Ted, Ron Amnsn and Sojourner like this

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According to  Ellen White so called "wine" Jesus changed from water was Not the wine we are thinking of.  It was a pure liquid without alcohol.

phkrause likes this

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Whether or not the wine was alcoholic misses the point.

Not essential to salvation.

 

The point, IMHO, Jesus is God Incarnate and performed miracles.

Essential to salvation.

 

Sober for 28 years, 10 months, 29 days...not that I'm counting or anything like that.

Gail, rudywoofs (Pam) and JoeMo like this

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What is important is the wild of Alchol has not changed. It causes death and destruction to the families. Adventist are human, and they do things

that they have not changed and it just take God to help that person along...Now if this Church decided to make a decision that drinking is Ok, I going to find another fellowship..

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I would not resign, in the event of something of this magnitude should happen (however remote). I would instead continue being vocal about my experience in the Lord in overcoming alcohol consumption, as a testimony as to why we shouldn't partake of the "wild spirits".

 

I tend to agree with the thought above - making alcohol "okay" would be a bigger controversy in this denomination than ordination of women currently is. Several things would have to cascade together in the correct way for alcohol to be voted in as "okay" by the GC, IMHO. In reality, it would be seen coming for years, and more an issue which would likely split the denomination before the decision is cast.

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With the SDA fundamental beliefs in 2005 a general conference session was held in St Louis Missouri and fundamental belief number 11 "Growing in Christ", was added to the fundamental beliefs taking them to 28 from 27. If a general conference can do that, why could another conference not meet and vote through a resolution that alchol consumption is now permissible if there was a group of people in the Adventist church that wished to see that happen?

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With the SDA fundamental beliefs in 2005 a general conference session was held in St Louis Missouri and fundamental belief number 11 "Growing in Christ", was added to the fundamental beliefs taking them to 28 from 27. If a general conference can do that, why could another conference not meet and vote through a resolutionarrow-10x10.png that alchol consumption is now permissible if there was a group of people in the Adventist church that wished to see that happen?

 

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If poodles had wings, they could fly maybe, but it is not in the nature of a poodle to have wings, and it is not in the essential belief system of the Adventist Church to condone alcohol consumption. It is not a question of being able to add another fundamental belief, it is that this is not what Adventists as a denomination believe.

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According to  Ellen White so called "wine" Jesus changed from water was Not the wine we are thinking of.  It was a pure liquid without alcohol.

Fortunately Ellen is not the authority on this, but instead the bible is.  It absolutely is the wine that I'm thinking about.  Grape juice fermented into alcohol.  What kind of party would be looking for more "pure liquid"?  The people in Jesus' time liked to get hammered just as much as we do today.

JoeMo likes this

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Apparently God doesn't view the use of wine in the same light as SDAs do.

 

Deu 14:26

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
 
This is talking about the "tithe" that could be turned into money and how it could be spent.
_______
 
It was even required as a drink offering "poured unto the LORD"
 
Num 28:7
And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.
 
 
 

 

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1Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise. Prov 20:1

Leading cause of industrial and motor vehicle accidents

2 drinks can cause impaired driving

While they could not test beverages for zero alcohol content, drunkenness was frowned upon in Jewish culture.

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 The people in Jesus' time liked to get hammered just as much as we do today.

After reading recently, some of the behaviors of the early believers, that is no doubt true. Is that how one should appear before the Lord of glory? Two individuals God felt it good to note while they were "hammered" were Nadab and Abihu. I'm not sure where the information comes from re: to their intoxication.

 

1Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2And fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.…Lev 10

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves!  :smiley:

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While I appreciate that some may find this to be a useful cautionary story, a great object lesson to further condemn some pet "strange fire" sin or behavior, the reason for Nadab and Abihu being punished was not their drinking and thereby profaning God's tabernacle. It was the strange fire itself that they brought into and tried to use in the temple service that provoked God's great displeasure. No doubt that their judgment may have been impaired by alcohol. But that was not the offense. The offense was using a fire started by human means to light the incense and candles and sacrificial fires of the temple. The constant burning fire that was not to be allowed to go out had been lit by God's own fire to show that which the whole tabernacle symbolized could be wrought only by the sacred and holy fire of God in the temple, for it was the result of God himself and not human source, power or effort that made it happen. It was that they let the sacred flame go out and took an ember from the the common cooking fire to ignite the incense that they carried into the tabernacle of the Lord that was the sin against God. Their action was a usurping of what only God could do and presuming that human effort to overcome sin was acceptable to make one right with God.  The substituted human created fire (fire strange to the temple) for the only source of fire allowed, God's own fire.

Edited by Tom Wetmore
aka and JoeMo like this

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Alcohol abuse predisposes to unwise actions. I did a paper on the side effects of alcohol on health while in graduate school at Loma Linda and from a behavioral standpoint, it increases the risk of assaulting someone else, being assaulted, suicide, homicide, becoming a homicide victim, child abuse, committing sexual assault, spousal abuse, divorce, being killed or killing someone else in a motor vehicle accident, industrial accidents, unwanted pregnancies, and STDs. This is not even mentioning the many primarily health effects.

 

In addition, few people who start drinking plan to have a drinking problem, but alcoholism and/or occasional problem or binge drinking may be a problem for many who drink regularly- perhaps as many as a third of drinkers will develop a problem. So if we want to avoid a crazy chaotic lifestyle, not drinking makes sense from a purely pragmatic standpoint. It may be playing Russian roulette with our health, our families, our careers, and perhaps our lives.

LifeHiscost likes this

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"Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

   ... Of the 75,000 annual deaths attributed to alcohol, 40,000 are injury deaths...

One-quarter of all emergency room admissions, one-third of all suicides, and more than half of all homicides and incidents of domestic violence are alcohol-related...

Almost half of all traffic fatalities are alcohol-related"...

From Promises Treatment Center at http://www.promises.com/articles/alcoholabuse/problem-drinking-a-greater-threat-than-recognized/

They also report almost half of all drinkers surveyed report binge drinking, and state we are all potential problem drinkers.

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