Bible becoming clear in the light of modern times

[Gail]

I have been thinking of how the recent beheadings of the Egyptian Christians by those terrorists reminded me of the souls under the altar in Revelation.

 

Like the threat of the mark of the beast to those in slavery (bond or free), I thought those phenomena were stuck in our world's history.

 

Apparently not.

[Aliensanctuary]

Makes me wonder if the 144K will all be martyrs. They'll be such easy targets because they bear YHVH's unmistakable mark on their foreheads, a sign of his ownership.

 

Sometimes it's so disappointing how murderously and demonically cruel humans can be while our acceptance of Christianity has given us a respect for other people's lives and their property, likely originating from the 10 Commandments. Any religion advocating persecution and/or death to non-members is clearly not from the God we believe in and is only a curse to humanity. Sadly, those receiving the Beastly Mark will have passed the point of no return and will have sealed their own fate.

[JoeMo]

Yes, the Bible is becoming increasingly clear in our time.  One thing that is becoming increasingly clear to me - especially with beheading making a big comeback - is that we need to start looking at eschatology from the viewpoint that Islam rather than the papacy will produce the Antichrist.  I'm not saying that the RCC (or any other Christian or Jewish sect) won't be involved; but the way the world currently looks,  Islam is a much better qualified candidate for Antichrist than is the papacy.

[8thdaypriest]

I think I've said, that I believe Satan will send a COUNTERFEIT Antichrist, so that his actual Antichrist can arrive, and not be identified by the masses of believers AS SUCH.

 

The COUNTERFEIT would have to be really good - fulfill a LOT of prophecy - in order to "deceive if possible the very elect". 

 

Islam could certainly qualify as the COUNTERFEIT. 

[TrevorL]

Greetings JoeMo and 8thdaypriest,

 

Yes, the Bible is becoming increasingly clear in our time.  One thing that is becoming increasingly clear to me - especially with beheading making a big comeback - is that we need to start looking at eschatology from the viewpoint that Islam rather than the papacy will produce the Antichrist.  I'm not saying that the RCC (or any other Christian or Jewish sect) won't be involved; but the way the world currently looks,  Islam is a much better qualified candidate for Antichrist than is the papacy.

I believe a correct understanding of Daniel 7, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 17 will identify the Papacy as the Antichrist System, and at the return of Jesus this system will produce or have in residence the Pope who will be the Antichrist whom Jesus will destroy. My understanding of prophecy is that ISIS will not gain any significant supremacy, but along with other troubles in the Middle East, they are certainly opposed to the things of God and even normal civilisation.

 

I think I've said, that I believe Satan will send a COUNTERFEIT Antichrist, so that his actual Antichrist can arrive, and not be identified by the masses of believers AS SUCH.

 

The COUNTERFEIT would have to be really good - fulfill a LOT of prophecy - in order to "deceive if possible the very elect". 

 

Islam could certainly qualify as the COUNTERFEIT. 

Could you please give a quotation from the Scriptures to support the view of a counterfeit antichrist?

Kind regards
Trevor
 

[8thdaypriest]

I have no problem, Trevor, with identifying the Papacy as the Antichrist. 

If the Pope "sits in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God" - the he would certainly FIT. 

 

I just believe that Satan is going to appear in a rebuilt Temple on the Mount, AS CHRIST. 

 

If he is going to pull that off - and deceive the very elect, then he has got to make someone or something ELSE, the Antichrist.  Right? 

 

Every Bible student, and even casual readers will be watching for the Antichrist, by that day. 

 

The prophecy of Ezekiel - of "the glory" returning to the empty Most Holy Place, COULD be counterfeited by Satan.

He would just have to create a supernatural "glory" coming into the rebuilt Temple on the Mount.

Then he could "stand in the holy place" and "sit in the Temple of God, showing himself, that he is God".   

 

I don't personally believe "the Beast" is the Catholic Church.

I believe it will be a world-wide economic system which can prevent individuals from buying and selling.

Now the Pope might encourage everyone to go along with that New World Order.  THAT I can believe. 

[Gail]

Interesting thoughts, everyone!

[phkrause]

Was going to start a new thread, but I think I'll post the article here. Pretty interesting

 

​The New Friendly Face of the Papacy

Do we have to change our interpretation of Revelation 13?

http://www.adventistreview.org/141521-26

[Aliensanctuary]

...we should not forget that the Catholic Church continues to stand for blatant heresies. These include the change of the Ten Commandments, the godlike devotion to Mary, the doctrine of the immortality of the soul, purgatory, eternal torture in hell, as well as blocking direct access to Christ through priestly intercession and the rite of confession.

 

I don't believe that the Papacy is the only religion prone to error. There is probably no Christian religion that is without misbeliefs.

 

Now if toxic Islam murders the pope and blows up the Vatican, devout Catholics may rise up against Muslims and start killing them and destroying their mosques just as Christians have been murdered and their churches destroyed in the Muslim world. Although the teachings of Christ eschew violence, that might not stop sectarian warfare in a fight for survival.

[TrevorL]

Greetings 8thdaypriest,

I have no problem, Trevor, with identifying the Papacy as the Antichrist. 

If the Pope "sits in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God" - the he would certainly FIT. 

 

I just believe that Satan is going to appear in a rebuilt Temple on the Mount, AS CHRIST. 

 

If he is going to pull that off - and deceive the very elect, then he has got to make someone or something ELSE, the Antichrist.  Right? 

 

Every Bible student, and even casual readers will be watching for the Antichrist, by that day. 

 

The idea that the antichrist will be established in Jerusalem with a rebuilt temple was first promulgated by the RCC to counter the Protestant claim that the RCC was the antichrist. You seem to be echoing their concept. I believe that Jesus will soon return to the earth and build the Temple at Jerusalem. Many will oppose Christ at that time.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

[JoeMo]

8thdaypriestsays;

 

"I believe it will be a world-wide economic system which can prevent individuals from buying and selling."

 

You are so right!  If you don't convert to Islam, they will do something to make you readily identifiable as an infidel; and no one will sell you anything.  Plus, you will be marked for death or slavery.  Look at history.  In the time of Muhammad, he inspired a jihad that killed thousands of Christians and Jews.  Some historians think that this slaughter was actually the original motivation for the first Crusade.  In the 1200s - 1700s, what became the Ottoman Empire through jihad conquered and ruled the Middle East and North Africa, carrying on the same agenda - convert to Islam, die, pay the infidel tax, or be sold into slavery.  Could this be the start of a 3rd jihad?

 

Look at the map of Alexander's "Grecian" Empire at it's height. .  Compare it to a map of the Ottoman Empire at its height.  Compare them to a map of areas currently controlled by ISIS, Al-Qaida, Boko-Haram, and other radical violent Islamic movements.  Notice any similarity?

 

Rome never occupied the areas of the Middle East currently under contention  Upon the demise of the Alexander's kingdom, the Middle East was primarily ruled by Arabs and Persians.

 

 “9 This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. 12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” (Rev. 17:9-11)

 

The underlined part of this scripture is crucial to me.  If the beast "now is not" in John's time, the "eighth king" could not be Rome.  Since the Bible is principally about Jews and the Middle East; and Rome never occupied the Middle East (except for the area around Palestine), Rome could not be the 8th king.  Yo me, this disqualifies Rome as the end-time Kingdom.

 

As far as Islam being a counterfeit AntiChrist, it could be both the counterfeit and the real.  Scenario - A terrorist group like ISIS appears to be poised to take over the Middle East and destroy Jerusalem; and people think ISIS is setting up an antichrist kingdom. A large army of moderate Islam (led by the man to be identified as Al-Mahdi) opposes ISIS at Jerusalem; and in the ensuing battle, the Dome of the Rock is destroyed; and Al-Mahdi's forces prevail.  In the name of peace and tolerance, Al-Mahdi allows the Jews to rebuild the Temple, provided that they open it as a place of worship for Christians, Jews, and Muslims.  3.5 years later, Al-Mahdi (along with his sidekick Prophet Jesus (known as the false prophet in the Bible) breaks the treaty that establishes the 3rd Temple and takes over the Temple, setting himself up as God.  Thus begins the final 3.5 years of this Age.

 

I'm NOT saying this is how it will happen; I'm saying that it is a realistic scenario, given current events.

[LifeHiscost]

I think I've said, that I believe Satan will send a COUNTERFEIT Antichrist, so that his actual Antichrist can arrive, and not be identified by the masses of believers AS SUCH.

 

The COUNTERFEIT would have to be really good - fulfill a LOT of prophecy - in order to "deceive if possible the very elect". 

 

Islam could certainly qualify as the COUNTERFEIT. 

We have this promise even if there is a distraction.

 

3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction (lawlessness, perdition), 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.…2 Thess 2 parenthesis from other translations  LHC

 

And to give added assurance to those who cling to Jesus.

 

…3While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;…1 Thess 5

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[JoeMo]

"Rome never occupied the areas of the Middle East currently under contention.  Upon the demise of the Alexander's kingdom, the Middle East was primarily ruled by Arabs and Persians."

 

I retract this statement.  At the height of its power, it appears that Rome did indeed occupy most of the territory of the Greek/Ottoman Empire.

[Aliensanctuary]

Although ISIS may or may not survive, the spread of the disease of fanaticism and hatred of Christians and Jews, powered by demons, will continue.

[Primevil60]

I don't believe that the Papacy is the only religion prone to error. There is probably no Christian religion that is without misbeliefs.

 

Now if toxic Islam murders the pope and blows up the Vatican, devout Catholics may rise up against Muslims and start killing them and destroying their mosques just as Christians have been murdered and their churches destroyed in the Muslim world. Although the teachings of Christ eschew violence, that might not stop sectarian warfare in a fight for survival.

I think that very thing will start the third holy war specified in the latter half of Daniel 11. And we are definitely headed in that direction pretty quickly.  

[JoeMo]

"Although the teachings of Christ eschew violence, that might not stop sectarian warfare in a fight for survival."

 

Wasn't it Christ who said  “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! ⁵⁰ But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! ⁵¹ Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division." (Matt. 12:49-51)  Wasn't it God who directed the Israelites to kill everything - men, women, children, animals - when they occupied Canaan after the Exodus?  It seems like sometimes God allows violence to destroy a greater evil.  For example, I don't think that there are many believers who repent about destroying Nazi Germany.  I don't think Christ condones it, but I don't think He condemns it under every circumstance, either.  But what do I know?  Are the saints just supposed to roll over and allow themselves to be slaughtered?

 

OTOH, there are those "Christians" who are probably just looking for an excuse to jack up some jihadists for Jesus.

[CoAspen]

The soul of mankind hides exceeding evil.