oh really?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

In another thread it was mentioned that "God will protect us" in the time of trouble.

 

Oh really? 

 

Tell that to the westerners who went to the Middle East for humanitarian reasons.  Tell that to the Coptic Christians who were recently massacred.  

 

I'm becoming a skeptic in my old age.  

 

The people who praise God for keeping them safe "throughout the day and night," who thank Him for "saving them from not being injured in disasters," who give God the credit for "fixing the car" or "healing" an illness, must have some sort of "holiness factor" that not every Christian possesses.

 

Otherwise, all loyal Christians would be "protected" and "blessed" by God.   And it's quite obvious that they are not.

 

So... what do you think is God's criteria for His gifts of protection and blessing?  To me, it seems to be random..

 

[Aliensanctuary]

I think that the people who say those things have an imaginary God.

 

A better way of thinking might be from King David's writings in Psalm 19:

 

How can I know all the sins lurking in my heart?
Cleanse me from these hidden faults.

Keep me from deliberate sins! Don't let them control me.

Then I will be free of guilt and innocent of great sin.

 

Whether we live or die, are rich or poor, and are sick or not does not matter so much as our efforts to honor and obey our Creator.

[Scuba]

God said His people would be killed by people who say they are doing God's will.

[Gail]

I agree with Scuba, that our turn for martyrdom could come at any time. Jesus said that the servant is not greater than his Lord (John 15:20) and that we ARE to expect persecution. We just happen to live in a time and place of relative safety here in N. America.

Myself, I believe that the point is not to hope in physical rescue, although that happens, true. If one's heart longs for God and is at peace with Him it doesn't matter if you live or die on this earth. God has given us the ultimate hope. We well might come to the place where we surrender our lives to Him in the ultimate sense.

But I wouldn't consider it out of place to pray for safety, not at all. David called out to God when his life was endangered. I can praise when the life is saved and praise when it isn't if someone died trusting in the promise of the Resurrection.

[Robert]

In another thread it was mentioned that "God will protect us" in the time of trouble.

 

Oh really? 

 

Tell that to the westerners who went to the Middle East for humanitarian reasons.  Tell that to the Coptic Christians who were recently massacred.  

 

I'm becoming a skeptic in my old age.  

 

The people who praise God for keeping them safe "throughout the day and night," who thank Him for "saving them from not being injured in disasters," who give God the credit for "fixing the car" or "healing" an illness, must have some sort of "holiness factor" that not every Christian possesses.

 

Otherwise, all loyal Christians would be "protected" and "blessed" by God.   And it's quite obvious that they are not.

 

So... what do you think is God's criteria for His gifts of protection and blessing?  To me, it seems to be random..

 

 

 

Heb 11:31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient. 

32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 

33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 

34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies.

35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. 

 

All good news, huh?  But wait:  

 

 

Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 

36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 

37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 

38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 

40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

[Robert]

God said His people would be killed by people who say they are doing God's will.

John 16:2 The time is coming when those who kill you will think that they are doing a service to God. 

3 They will do these things because they don't know the Father or me. 

 

You (speaking to everyone) see if your theology believes that God kills...that there's a dark side to God...that He gets angry and smites folks, then you might join those John is talking about.

[8thdaypriest]

The pompous "little horn" who comes up among the "ten horns" and uproots 3 of the horns" (Daniel 7), will "persecute the saints of the Most High" 

 

"The saints will be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time"  (3 and a part years). (Daniel 7:25).

"It will be for a time, times, and half a time, and when the power of the holy people has been COMPLETELY SHATTERED, all these things will be finished" (Dan 12:7).

 

The POWER of the holy people, is their "witness".

 

NIV  Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

 

WHEN the last witness for the LORD is either killed or imprisoned, so that he/she can no longer speak to anyone - THAT is WHEN IT'S OVER !!

 

This age will not be finished, so long as the LORD can win one more person to His Kingdom, thru the "witness" of His saints. 

 

Satan KNOWS this, but he hates Christ and therefore us - so much, that he cannot help himself. 

 

Satan will bring an END to this age, when he kills (or imprisons) the LAST WITNESS.

[Sojourner]

The fact is that being born again in several countries in the world garantees execution or severe persecution. There is no prosperity for those people in a humanistic sense. Western theology has created the Prosperity movement, it does not come from Scripture.

On death row in Indonesia at the moment is an Australian citizen that was caught with some others dealing drugs, it is all over the news here because he is soon to be executed. What is not well known is that he has become born again in jail, what he had to say after his sentence was given was “When I got back to my cell I said “God I asked you to set me free not kill me”. God spoke to me and said “Andrew I have set you free from the inside out, I have given you life!” From that moment on I have not stopped worshipping Him. I had never sung before, never led worship until Jesus set me free.

We have free will, so does everyone else. If God over rides the free will of one person, where does it stop. Its the reason that He gave it to us in the first place that is paramount to answering this question.

[Aliensanctuary]

I suspect that some people may pray for a winning lottery ticket or for some other change in circumstances that would make their lives "better", keep themselves safe, or even alive. Maybe most of our "prayers" tend to be rather selfish, and as a result, they bounce off of the ceilings.

 

When Jesus said "Ask and it shall be given" and, "whatsoever you ask for in prayer, believing, you shall receive", these statements are not directed at this life, but the next. There, YHVH will read our minds in order to know what we need for our tasks before we ask, and we will not ask for anything selfishly because at that time our sense of Self is dead and we are one with our Master.

 

As Christians in this world, we shouldn't expect any special treatment or favors from God who tends to be an impartial observer, for now. Whether we live or die, have enough to eat, a comfortable place to live, or enough money to pay the bills in this life is not so important as what choices we will make after the resurrection when we are all tested. During the Last Days, unfortunately, things do not go well for YHVH's servants, who are massacred without mercy. But that's the test Christ spoke of, he who lives will die, while he who dies for my sake and the gospel, will live.

 

I don't suppose there is any harm in asking God for protection, but one may begin to doubt when we, or our friends and family, are harmed, get sick, or die. In this life we can only expect the "randomness of good and evil", but that shouldn't affect our faith in God, who always knows, via Spirit, what is going on in this world and the problems that everyone experiences. In the next life, we can expect that a big "eraser" will wipe out all of our memories of pain and suffering and death, leaving a lot of room for something much better...

[8thdaypriest]

Just research how the 12 disciples died.  That should tell you about "special protection" in this world.

 

Each of us experiences "pain" in this world.  Maybe we loose someone, or something precious.  Maybe we are betrayed or disappointed by a "friend".  Maybe we have chronic pain from a physical condition, and the LORD does not heal or lessen that pain.  Maybe we have financial woes.

 

Yes - The pain IS a test, of whether we will continue to trust in HIM - regardless. 

 

Are there miracles?  YES!!!  I can testify to several. 

 

So - how does God determine who should benefit from a miracle, and who should be tested more severely? 

I don't know.  We will have to ask Him, when we get "home". 

 

We are supposed to ASK. 

But we are also to say "Thy will be done." 

And we are to accept His will. 

 

I was recently (3 months ago) delivered from 47 years of chronic migraines.  I had a procedure called a "Sphenopalatine Ganglion Radio-frequency Ablation".  

It was outpatient, with just some sedation.  No pain to speak of afterwards.  But from THAT DAY, I have not experienced another migraine.

PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My life is definitely changed!  

So WHY did the LORD not heal me 36 years ago, when I began my walk with Him??  

Maybe He knew that I needed to "cling to Him" more tightly.

Maybe He knew that I needed to empathize with other people who suffer chronic pain.

Maybe

Maybe

Maybe

 

I'll ask HIM, when I get "home". 

[8thdaypriest]

We KNOW that a "time of trouble" is coming.

Preparation information is all over the web.

Predictions of economic collapse is too, and NOT JUST from religious sources.

 

I'm sure there are many folks praying, "LORD, just let me die before that time."

 

But remember what the Israelites said when "the spies" returned from Canaan?

"Oh that we had died in the wilderness!" 

 

The LORD granted their request.

ONLY Caleb and Joshua, and Eleazer the High Priest CROSSED the JORDAN. 

 

So I'm NOT saying THAT prayer. 

I want to say with Joshua, "We are well able to overcome it." 

 

The LORD has promised, "You will not be tested above your strength.  With the temptation I will provide a way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

That "way of escape" may BE DEATH.  Or it may be His strength added to mine. 

 

I believe those who live through the "time of trouble" will be especially "called" for that time.

I do not pray for that calling, but IF I am called, I pray to endure.   

[JoeMo]

"God will protect us" in the time of trouble."

 

God will not (in general) protect us from the wrath of man; but I believe He will protect us from the wrath of God (i.e., 7 bowls of wrath).  Scriture tells us of unrestrained persecution in the last days by other humans (so much so that it will wear out the saints - Dan.7:25)  The Bible even tells us with certainty that persecution WILL come. (Matt. 24:10; John 15:18-21; 16:1-3)

 

But the Bible also says that God's people will be protected from the wrath of God.  (See Romans5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10 and 5:9; for example).