Nepal Earthquake and none injured Adventists? Too good to be true (Adventists Review)

[carey]

Dear folks, would u pls to double-check the accuracy of this facts-based news about the Nepal Earthquake in Adventist Review?

 

http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story2578-adventist-leader-in-nepal-tells-of-panic-and-pain

 

It says "In Nepal, all Christians worship on Saturday because it is a nonworking day unlike Sunday, when the country works."

"So far no Adventist has been killed,” Pokharel told the Adventist Review on Sunday. “However, many Christians were buried while they were worshiping on Sabbath and died.”

 

Opps... wait a minute...It seems too good to be true... "No Adventists were injured" is different than "No Adventists were killed". None injured means such a total protection. However, since all Sunday keepers escorted to be allowed to worship on Saturday due to their policy and rules, those non-Adventist Christians were worshiping the same Living God as Adventists on that Saturday.

 

Then the big earthquake came in the middle of the Saturday worship hours. To be honest, most of the construction- infrastructure of Adventist churches/schools/hospitals in Nepal considered the poor building materials since the church members and missionaries have no enough money for the most building projects for the better constructions.

 

In other words, the other protestant churches are well-built and much stronger churches. Here's the huge gap of human logic... How come the Adventist Review made a statement that ""So far no Adventist has been killed,” Pokharel told the Adventist Review on Sunday. “However, many Christians were buried while they were worshiping on Sabbath and died.”

 

When Adventists fully survived, I think the non-SDA churches deserved the same, and not buried alive since they are also worshipping the same God as Adventists' especially since they have a much better churches' construction. Unfortunately they are buried alive and killed while worshiping the same God as Adventists'. (Btw, we have the same Jesus too, right?)

 

Nevertheless the Adventist Review still need to keep the accuracy and the real fact of each news. We don't quite sure if this is just as the 'phony' news or the real facts even yet.

[Gregory Matthews]

The REVIEW Article does contain some internal statements that seem to conflict with each other:

 

 Umesh Pokharel, president of the Nepal Section, an attached field of the Southern Asia Division, said no Adventist believers are known to have been injured in the 7.8 magnitude quake, which struck around midday Sabbath, April 25, as Christians of all faiths worshiped across the country.

“So far no Adventist has been killed,” Pokharel told the Adventist Review on Sunday. “However, many Christians were buried while they were worshiping on Sabbath and died.”

 

As the REVIEW article was posted a few hours after the earthquake, I will suggest that it is simply an example of incomplete information.  There are some 8,600 members in the country.  The total situation is not known.  In the quote above, Pokharel makes two different statements, probably at two different times.  Probably later in the week we will have more accurate information.  Later we may have more information that tells us some were injured and some were killed.

[carey]

The problem is: "Buried alive" vs. "No Adventists killed". But they're all @worship services AT THE SAME TIME. This is a huge gap, especially since the secular media in Nepal apparently agreed that some SDA churches were partly damaged but refused to say that Adventists buried alive and killed on that Sabbath worship hours.

 

The statement "buried while they were worshiping..." are the strong words, and AR probably borrows the statement from any official news centers.

[LifeHiscost]

Here's some news , though also needs updating to gain any specific news of any Christian community outside of ADRA staff themselves.

 

 

All ADRA staff has been accounted for and are safe.

“I praise God that the ADRA staff is all safe, however, they need our prayers, as do the people of Nepal at this sad time,” said Robert Patton, ADRA’s Emergency Management Advisor in an email communication today. “At this time we know that up to 80 percent of houses closest to the epicenter of the earthquake are damaged or destroyed.”

More information to come as the story develops.

About ADRA

The Adventist Development and Relief Agency International is the humanitarian arm of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Its work empowers communities and changes lives around the globe by providing sustainable community development and disaster relief. For more information, visit ADRA.org.

  

 

https://adra.org/pray-for-victims-of-earthquake-in-nepal-2/

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Igakusei]

As an aside, where do you get this idea that people worshipping on Sunday are worshipping a different god, whereas if they were worshipping on Saturday it automatically means that they're worshipping your god? So let's say that two Mormon brothers went to the mission field, one of them to China and one of them to Nepal, that when they worshipped they would be worshipping different gods because one of them is worshipping on Sunday and one on Saturday? I thought there was only one God.

[carey]

Btw, ooh Igakusei, I got your point. Apparently this has nothing to do with our same God. Reminds me of the story of Cain and Abel. Both were serving the same God. When Abel simply obeyed God's Instruction, unfortunately Cain thought that he could do another way he wish as long as he had a sincere heart to serve God.

 

To be Nice & sincere Christians is always good but it's not as a license nor a substitute to justify our disobedience. As it was happened in Cain & Abel, so it will happen to the close of earth history, Though their hearts may be real nice and sincere, but the devil finally can win their hearts to kill the remnant Bible believer Christians, for sure!

[Stan]

The 4th commandment is not about which day you worship on, we should worship every day, it is about which day your REST on and which 6 days you WORK on.

[Igakusei]

Stan I understand the theology, I just wanted to ask because of the way she/he worded a few sentences like this: 

However, since all Sunday keepers escorted to be allowed to worship on Saturday due to their policy and rules, those non-Adventist Christians were worshiping the same Living God as Adventists on that Saturday.

[Stan]

I was actually responding to him....  I think you and I are on the same page here    

[aka]

John 4:23

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

 

John 4:24

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

 

We need someone to write up here a proper statement telling what the true meaning of worshiping in the Spirit and in truth really looks like to God when he views our religious meetings.

 

Cain got it wrong with his delusional idea of what worship was and was rejected.

Abel got it right with his obedience to God's expectation.

 

"....in the Spirit and in the truth."

[Bravus]

Now coming up on 4000 human beings killed.

Do you think God is only weeping if there turns out to be an Adventist, or someone who through various twisted logics can be made to look like one?

They're *all* his children. He died for all of them. If our heart is like his, we weep for all of them.

[LifeHiscost]

They're *all* his children. He died for all of them. If our heart is like his, we weep for all of them.

God wept for Cain also. Weeping is a good start but there is only one way to the kingdom.

 

Jesus said to him, "I am the way...John 14

 

 1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2“But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3“To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4“When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5“A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.       7So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep....John 10

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[lazarus]

Seems like "Adventist LIves Matter....More"

[Scotchip]

Dear folks, would u pls to double-check the accuracy of this facts-based news about the Nepal Earthquake in Adventist Review?

 

http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story2578-adventist-leader-in-nepal-tells-of-panic-and-pain

 

It says "In Nepal, all Christians worship on Saturday because it is a nonworking day unlike Sunday, when the country works."

"So far no Adventist has been killed,” Pokharel told the Adventist Review on Sunday. “However, many Christians were buried while they were worshiping on Sabbath and died.”

 

Opps... wait a minute...It seems too good to be true... "No Adventists were injured" is different than "No Adventists were killed". None injured means such a total protection. However, since all Sunday keepers escorted to be allowed to worship on Saturday due to their policy and rules, those non-Adventist Christians were worshiping the same Living God as Adventists on that Saturday.

 

Then the big earthquake came in the middle of the Saturday worship hours. To be honest, most of the construction- infrastructure of Adventist churches/schools/hospitals in Nepal considered the poor building materials since the church members and missionaries have no enough money for the most building projects for the better constructions.

 

In other words, the other protestant churches are well-built and much stronger churches. Here's the huge gap of human logic... How come the Adventist Review made a statement that ""So far no Adventist has been killed,” Pokharel told the Adventist Review on Sunday. “However, many Christians were buried while they were worshiping on Sabbath and died.”

 

When Adventists fully survived, I think the non-SDA churches deserved the same, and not buried alive since they are also worshipping the same God as Adventists' especially since they have a much better churches' construction. Unfortunately they are buried alive and killed while worshiping the same God as Adventists'. (Btw, we have the same Jesus too, right?)

 

Nevertheless the Adventist Review still need to keep the accuracy and the real fact of each news. We don't quite sure if this is just as the 'phony' news or the real facts even yet.

I think most of the comments about this statement have been taken the wrong way entirely.  Adventists are a family so we want to know that our family in Nepal are safe. If I am talking to a Christian from another denomination I would ask, "are all your members ok?" Similarly when there is trouble in, for example the recent killings in Kenya, I ask Kenyan friends,"are your family safe?"  It is not that they, or Adventists, are better than the others but simply a need to know that 'family' are safe.

[JimTN]

Let's keep in mind how the Mark of the Beast will be -- people receive it "on their hand," or "in the forehead" -- which means, if it's in the forehead they believe in it -- and if it's in the hand, they just go along with it out of convenience and don't really believe it...

It seems that Sunday-keepers in Nepal are worshiping on Saturdays merely out of "convenience," NOT because they believe in the 7th day Sabbath.

BTW, back when 9/11 happened, I believe I heard that 9 Adventists died on that day -- including one who was going to his very first day of work in the Twin Towers -- it always seemed to me that this was not very good protection by GOD for putting one of us "in the WRONG place at just the WRONG time"...

The bottom line seems to be, some of us will live, and some of us will die -- which basically just puts people on the "fast track" to Heaven (or the other place)! 

Edited May 2, 2015 by JimTN
word change

[Myron]

Igakusei,

Though Adventists pride themselves on prophetic interpretation there are some symbols they miss entirely and many prophecies they never look at.  Adventists do understand that in prophecy women can represent nations or religions but they totally miss the very common factor in prophecy that each nation has its own god(s) and thus represent religious systems.  They further miss entirely that cities towns and villages represent subdivisions (denominations) in these religions and they completely ignore the prophecies associated with these subdivisions.  

In most of the book of Jeremiah God is laying out his to Judah (and to a lesser extent to the surrounding nations) before passing sentence on them for judgments that were made in the days of Isaiah and shortly afterward.  Jeremiah is told not to pray for these people because they have already been convicted in God's court even before Jeremiah had been called as a prophet to them and he would refuse to hear any prayer on their behalf to avert the judgment.  However, sentence had not yet been determined.  During this time God was doing what in the American court system would be called a pre-sentence investigation.  This was the purpose of Jeremiah's ministry.  In short, the people were now to submit to Nebuchadnezzar, God's servant, and stay in their land paying him tribute, thus entering a wooden yoke judgment (Jeremiah 28) or they could rebel against God by refusing to submit to Nebuchadnezzar and end up being placed in the iron yoke promised in Deuteronomy 28:48 and be in exile for the first portion of their sentence (the sentence continued as a wooden yoke under the Medes and Persians, Greeks, Romans [including the Church] and now Mystery Babylon.  Physical Israel had already been under an iron yoke since the time the Assyrians carried them off and have remained under that yoke ever since; apparent Judah [Paul's terminology for those we call Jews but are not] returned to an iron yoke in 70 AD; and legal Judah [those who follow the king of the Jews] have varied between the wooden and iron yokes since that time according to location and how closely they have followed God's laws.)

In Jeremiah 2:28 God tells Judah, "Where then are the gods you made for yourselves?  Let them come if they can save you when you are in trouble!  For you, Judah, have as many gods as you have towns."  Later we find that although Judah had the temple of the Lord and looked to that as proof that they were worshiping the one true God, they had actually brought other God's into the temple to worship, thus committing adultery against God who was their husband.  (In the early chapters of Proverbs and in Jeremiah 3 God tells them they have brought these other men (gods) into his bedchamber and made it their bordello.  This is rather strong language that most Christians claim God would never use -- further proof that they actually are worshiping gods of their own making.)

What Jeremiah 2:28 tells us is that every denomination has its own God.  Denominationalism is not inherently as sin, but it can very easily become a sin -- a line most SDAs crossed long ago.  Christianity is the nation of Israel/Judah.  The first division of those who have gone into sin is Israel or Judah.  According to Jeremiah 3, Israel, which set up golden calves at Bethel and Dan to give its people a place of worship other than the temple in Jerusalem, was openly a whore who sold herself by the side of the road to any god that came by looking for followers.  Her idolatry (and adultery) was open and she made no effort to hide it.  Judah on the other hand brought the worship of these other gods into the temple and claimed it was all proper to the worship of the temple even though it was actually the worship of other gods, gods of their own making.

Today, depending on which survey you examine, when the counting was done and who did the counting you will find a minimum of 29,000 denominations of Christianity.  That is a lot of different gods.  I have read sources claiming over 39,000 denominations. Each of these denominations falls into one or the other of these two groupings, Judah or Israel.  None of them is "the true church."  As in the days of Jeremiah and Elijah the remnant is individuals scattered throughout the country, living in many different cities or more often banished from those cities and towns as heretics.  As with Elijah they often do not know each other or live in the same city or town.  We cannot be certain if Obediah had been discovered in Ahab's house and martyred or if Elijah's later despair and fear led him to simply ignore Obediah's service to God or Elijah was unaware that Obediah had risked his life to hide many of God's prophets and feed them from the King's table.  He certainly did not know many of the 7000 who had not bent a knee to the Ba'als and even those he did know he apparently did not consider true servants of God at that moment.

 Denominationalism is not necessarily a sin, as I said above.  In fact if you read Paul's writings concerning the parts of the body you find that a certain level of denominationalism is necessary.  While he is speaking primarily of the different callings of individuals you will also see that this can easily apply to the various denominations and their various callings and the doctrines revealed specifically to that group.  The problem comes when one or more of them cuts themselves off from the rest of the body claiming the distinct doctrine(s) God revealed to them is the only truth of God and the complete truth of God and they are the only true Christians.  While this is no longer the publicly stated official doctrine of this denomination it is the open belief of a significant number of SDAs including many of our bible teachers.  

During my Academy and college years this was always a bit of a sore point with me.  Few of my school teachers actually taught this although some may have.  A number of my sabbath school teachers taught this and I heard it from the mouths of many students.  It always bothered me that no one, and especially the theology professors present at these times never corrected these individuals.  Yet it should not have been a surprise.  Every time a prophecy seminar is presented the actual official SDA doctrine is taught and that is that only SDAs are true Christians, everyone else is false and will not enter heaven.  We teach it openly; we just do not state it plainly.  We aren't alone in this, but until we openly admit it, it still is a sin that cuts us off from the body of Christ.  While Paul tells us that removal from the body of Christ does not mean we are no longer a part of that body it is, however, true that apart from the body we receive no nutrients from the blood, no stimulus from the brain.  While the other parts of the body cannot in truth claim they have no use for the less honorable or weaker parts, those parts can make themselves useless to the body by disconnecting from it.  Using another of Paul's metaphors if these dead branches are not grafted back into the tree they will never bear fruit.  

Jesus gave a number of object lessons on this point as well.  One of the most clear is the healing of the blind man from Bethsaida in Mark 8.  Here Jesus took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village (denomination).  I used to interpret this as outside the church, but they did not leave the nation, they only went into the wilderness outside the village.  (By our current definitions it is probably a stretch to call this wilderness since it was probably cultivated land, but the point is God takes us to the wilderness, away from the oasis and all the comforts of the things we think we know when he is ready to give us a revelation.)  Here he spit in the man's eyes.  Spitting is a sign of derision everywhere else in scripture.  The reason Jesus spit in this man's eyes (or placed mud in another blind man's eyes) is to show that most of the time spiritual sight only comes from affliction.  

This only gave the man partial sight.  Paul speaks of this many times as do the Old Testament prophets.  It is called blindness in part or seeing through smoked glass (1 Cor 13:12 Greek) or through a glass darkly (1 Cor 13:12 KJV).  This represents the extent of our spiritual sight in the Pentecostal age (usually called the church age, but since the nation of Israel was called the church in the wilderness I will be more specific.  The church ages are split into the Passover age and the Pentecostal age with a Tabernacles age yet to come.)  Here Paul is calling the Pentecostal age "now" and Pentecostal believers "we".  He is not speaking of Passover level Christians who only have the ability to hear and are normally referred to as little children as opposed to youth or old men - 1 John 2.  

Jesus then touched the man's eyes and he saw clearly.  This is the full sight that Paul says we will have "then".  "Then is the Tabernacles age and beyond.  At that point we will see spiritually as well as in the three dimensions in which we can see today.  Paul called this seeing clearly.  In Numbers 12 in reference to Moses God called it talking mouth to mouth, clearly and without riddles or hidden meanings (dark sayings).  After the man was able to see Jesus told him to go home but not to return to the village. What does this mean?  For the Christian home is the Kingdom of Heaven, not a specific village (denomination); the village is a place of blindness, at least in part.  The worst thing about this blindness is that the blind believe they can see and they have no problem clawing the eyes out of those who can actually see because they do not see things "our way".  Some of them won't stop at clawing out they eyes of the sighted either.  Instead they will be happy to kill the sighted and claim they are doing God's work for him.

Jesus spoke of these people as well in John 10.  39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.” 40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but [f]since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains. In Mark 7 Jesus went into Syria and Lebanon for a short teaching trip for his disciples.  The primary purpose of this trip was to teach them how wrong their attitude toward foreigners was.  This was done in the encounter with the Syro-phonecian woman whose daughter he healed, saying he had not seen such great faith in Israel.  Right after that he healed a man who was a deaf-mute.  This is the first step in the process of entry into the Kingdom of Heaven.  This man lived in the region of Decapolis (the 10 cities). These cities were in Syria but were Jewish cities. Those who are not in Israel do not hear God's voice.  Yet when Jesus spit, stuck his fingers in his ears and said "be open," and touched the saliva to the man's tongue the man began hear and speak clearly.  This man lived in a transitional state, and with a little bit of affliction he began hearing God's voice for himself, and began his journey into the Kingdom of heaven.  With the healing of the man from Bethsaida we see the next two levels of faith in action.

It is all a matter of perspective.  In once sense we do all serve the same God, yet none of us knows him entirely and none of us knows him in exactly the same way.  This means that none of us worships the same God.  This is not a problem so long as we remember that God reveals himself to us a little bit at a time and always has something more to reveal to us and that my revelation of him is specific to what I need to know of him to accomplish my calling.  As such my revelation of God will never be the same as yours or anyone else's.  This difference becomes a sin and a false god as soon as I start saying this is the only possible revelation of God and this is the full revelation of God and anyone who does not follow this revelation is worshiping a false god.  To varying extents nearly every denomination has done this.  

What you see here in this thread is just what you have called these people on.  I will not judge any individual based on a single post, and I do try to give everyone the benefit of every doubt as God's laws requires.  I'm not perfect at that, and I do know this denomination intimately and the lengths they will go to in there attempts to convince themselves and everyone else of the truth of their false god.  Yes it is, at least in part, about a feeling of family, but there is also a certain element (usually much stronger) of hatred of everyone who is not one of us.  This is the natural human condition and I will not condemn on that basis.  We all do it and will fall prey to the flesh on this point so long as we remain in these mortal bodies.  

When I started learning the doctrine of the restoration of all things I took the materials that had been brought to me to one of my theology professors.  As we discussed the matter one of his strongest "proofs" that this is a false doctrine was his statement, "My enemies will BURN," and he pounded the desk on the word burn.  The scriptures never speak of "my" enemies this way.  Although I did not say so aloud my immediate response was, "This is not about my enemies, it is about God's enemies and he tells us not to have enemies."  This man's attitude was a significant proof to me of major problems in this denomination.  He was a missionary to east Asia for many years and when I knew him was training our future pastors and theologians, and this is what he was teaching them.  If I am seeking to have my enemies burn I will never make a real effort to convert them and make them my brother in Christ.  This is a very serious problem.  Few of our members or leaders will be as open and honest about their true feelings as this man was, but this attitude exists throughout this denomination (and most others as well.)

Unless we take extraordinary measures to prevent it we all worship gods of our own making, all too often in our own image, but sometimes more like what we hope to become.  Since our wildest imaginings still fall short of the truth of God and always contains major perversions of the flesh these gods will always be inadequate.  I pray that we will always worship the true God which means we must always be open to new revelation and not stuck in the past revelations of our forefathers of many generations ago.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Myron
addition of one major point

[Anthony!]

Herein lies one of the fruitless points (pointless fruits) of religion (yes, I mean Christianity also). It is the jump in human logic that perceives that 'our people are special recipients of god's protection and grace, therefore what we believe is especially blessed by god'. Then god allowed satan to use the earthquake to bring calamity only to the 'pagans' and 'apostate Christians'? To wake up Nepal? When are the religious going to realize that natural disasters just happen because they are of nature - the pressure of tectonic plates that just give way? That the reason people may survive could be because of earthquake preparedness smarts and building structural conditions?