My objection to the idea of "Universal Reconciliation and Universalism".

[RedSearch]

This is a rough draft I wrote up, similar to my previous post on The State of the Dead. this will be/is on a website, so please give me your suggestions, corrections, etc..

As before, this is not a debate. Do not expect me to respond with disagreements or agreements upon your comments.

[Note: I types this up in a different program and pasted it here, so please ignore any oddities. This is mostly quotes with some text.]

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My objection to the idea of "Universal Reconciliation and Universalism".

The Bible is clear in what it says, to understand who the Bible says you need to compare line upon line and precept upon precept and it will be understandable, if not pray and God will show you the truth if you seek it with all your heart. Many seem to jump into a chapter not knowing what it is talking about and assume it is saying something different then it really is saying. You need to read the full context to understand.

Note: If you prefer the CVOT, CVNT, a.k.a Concordant Version instead of NKJV or ASV you can look it up there, these verses mean the same thing in those versions.

All Souls belong to God:

“Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 NKJV

Can a person who has been wicked be saved? Yes!

"But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live." -Ezekiel 18:21-22 NKJV

Does God delight in the destruction of the Wicked? No!

"Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?" - Ezekiel 18:23 NKJV

Can a man who has been Righteous can he turn away and loose his salvation? Yes!

"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die." - Ezekiel 18:24 NKJV

Does Paul say this same thing as recorded these Ezekiel passages? Yes!

"And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things.
And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
who will render to every man according to his works:
to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation,
tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
for there is no respect of persons with God." -Romans 2:3-11 ASV

In the end times, what is the final destination of the wicked and righteous?
The wicked to destruction eternal, and righteous for salvation eternal.

"He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still.
Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city." Revelation 22:11-14 NKJV

Is the message of Jesus and the truth of what He wants us to do apply to all nations? Yes!

"And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.
Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." -- Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV

By-The-Way: The first lie to man was that you would not die, you can't trust what God says, and not to obey God...

"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?
And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat:
but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil." -Genesis 3:1-5 ASV

Adam and Eve did not physically die and become unconscious the moment they sinned, they began to die.

Since both Righteous and Sinners BOTH physically and consciously die on this earth before the end & annihilation of wickedness and death, it does not make sense for the results of sin that God foretold to mean the temporary physical unconscious death on this earth before "everyone" - meaning as-in the "Universal Reconciliation" as "ALL".
God is referring to the final end of sin/death/wickedness since this would be separate destinations, rather then one destination for the "Universal Reconciliation"'s "All".

 

[8thdaypriest]

Try looking up every verse with the words "all men", or "whole world" or "the earth" in the verse.

Personally, I believe the key is FREE WILL.  God will NOT violate our FREE WILL.   (Satan does.) 

There is a study at my website on "Universalism".

Rachel Cory, prophecyviewpoint.com

 

[Stan]

Actually on this I am with you 8th...

[Robert]

Try looking up every verse with the words "all men", or "whole world" or "the earth" in the verse.

Personally, I believe the key is FREE WILL.  God will NOT violate our FREE WILL.   (Satan does.) 

There is a study at my website on "Universalism".

Rachel Cory, prophecyviewpoint.com

 

​True, but those who can't exercise their will is another story.  We come into this world innocent, that is, ignorant. 

[8thdaypriest]

​True, but those who can't exercise their will is another story.  We come into this world innocent, that is, ignorant. 

​THAT is WHY the Lord will resurrect everyone who died in ignorance - at the 8th millennium - to give them TIME to hear the truth, and then use their free will to CHOOSE whom they will serve. 

[Stan]

 

And that is where we differ....

[Stan]

That is a long time World Wide Church of God teaching...  

[RedSearch]

You do not reference any of the Scriptures that speak of universal reconciliation, so you have not really addressed the subject.

See some of the references here: http://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/59062-greek-eon-and-universal-reconciliation

- joe

​I agree that I should add the primary "Pillar" verses which "UC" advocates use and explain what those verses are really saying in light of their contexts.

I have been in a long winded debate on this subject with one of my relatives, so, I have seen references through-out much of the Bible in which the advocates of this idea uses.

The passages which I posted are valid as they directly contradict many of the arguments in the "UC" debate. - The Bible agrees with itself.

Edited May 15, 2015 by RedSearch

[Samie]

God Himself showed us through a vision given to Isaiah that there will be little children, suckling child, weaned child in the new earth (see Isa 11:6-9). Since all whose names are not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15), then these little children in the new earth have their names written there.