Death Penalty: 'Civilized' Vengeance or Biblical Contradiction?

[phkrause]

Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'" -- Bible Gateway
Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Articles/Death-Penalty-Civilized-Vengeance-or-Biblical-Contradiction.aspx#mMP4juj0bAkB00k7.99

[LifeHiscost]

Allowing the criminal mind to maintain their criminality is sentencing multiplied innocent lives to death. Examples are Hitler, Idi Amin, Stalin, and multiplied individual serial killers.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gerr]

To me the Sermon on the Mt was for personal application. It has to be taken also in the total context of scripture.  "To everything there is a season..." - peace/war, plant/uproot, silence/speak, etc. Gov't have been given byGod the power of the sword to maintain order.  If evil is not restrained, then the wicked triumph.

[Unchained]

Allowing the criminal mind to maintain their criminality is sentencing multiplied innocent lives to death. Examples are Hitler, Idi Amin, Stalin, and multiplied individual serial killers.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

​

You mentioned Hitler and Idi Amin, but I'd like to add a few names to the list: Simeon and Levi (mass murder), Moses (murder), David (murder), Paul (responsible for the deaths of innocent Christians)… Surely criminals such as these should have been judged and be executed in order to prevent them from carrying out further crimes?

[Gail]

I recently finished a book that detailed why both Stalin and Hitler suffered from extreme bi-polar. The book includes Napoleon. By today's standards they may not have reached the heights they did in the eras they lived.

[LifeHiscost]

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You mentioned Hitler and Idi Amin, but I'd like to add a few names to the list: Simeon and Levi (mass murder), Moses (murder), David (murder), Paul (responsible for the deaths of innocent Christians)… Surely criminals such as these should have been judged and be executed in order to prevent them from carrying out further crimes?

​You make a good point. Taking in the whole picture, two salient points come to my mind.

42And the Lord replied, “A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. 43If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. 44I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. 45But what if the servant thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? 46The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant in pieces and banish him with the unfaithful.

47“And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished....Luke 12

There is another mindset that is unable to be seen as servants of the most high God, and therefor will only have this below to which to look forward.

18But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.ⁱ 19They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see His invisible qualities___His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

24So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.....Romans 1

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

 

[Unchained]

To be honest I'm not sure about what you're trying to say, LifeHiscost... Perhaps you could explain what you meant?

[Liz]

I have a different view on "eye for an eye" and the death penalty. But we would have to rework our entire judicial system in order to implement it. Locking people up does not deter the amount of crime. However, if one was obligated to take care of the victims for the rest of their lives that might.

 

[joeb]

I have a different view on "eye for an eye" and the death penalty. But we would have to rework our entire judicial system in order to implement it. Locking people up does not deter the amount of crime. However, if one was obligated to take care of the victims for the rest of their lives that might.

 

​I'd like to point out at one reason why our justice system does so little to restrain evil.   It has been shown by those who study human behavior(psychologists, psychiatrists, sociologists) that intermittent punishment of undesirable behavior actually strengthens undesirable behavior.  We say we will punish certain crimes with specific punishments and then when we don't the criminal mind, just like the juvenile mind, thinks that they personally will not get caught and even if they do get caught won't be punished.  Every time they see a criminal get away with his criminal act it strengthens that belief.  When they see someone get caught and punished they tell themselves they aren't the one who will get caught and punished. 

The above has been proven time and time again.  It's why lazy parents raise children with major behavior problems.  And it's why an inconsistent judicial system encourages criminal behavior. 

[joeb]

​

You mentioned Hitler and Idi Amin, but I'd like to add a few names to the list: Simeon and Levi (mass murder), Moses (murder), David (murder), Paul (responsible for the deaths of innocent Christians)… Surely criminals such as these should have been judged and be executed in order to prevent them from carrying out further crimes?

​It's ironic how you put repentant sinners in with unrepentant sinners and then draw such a flawed conclusion from doing so.   If A does not equal B then you cannot substitute them for each other in an equation and expect equal results.

[Unchained]

​It's ironic how you put repentant sinners in with unrepentant sinners and then draw such a flawed conclusion from doing so.   If A does not equal B then you cannot substitute them for each other in an equation and expect equal results.

​
Remember that we're talking about the law of the land. Secular law doesn't distinguish between “repentant” and “unrepentant” sinners when it comes to capital punishment. There's only one thing that matters, and that is that you have been found guilty in court! Even if you find Jesus while you're on death row you are still given the lethal injection in the end. Your religious profession doesn't matter to the judicial system.

Who knows, perhaps some of the men who each year are executed would have become a Paul or a Moses if they had been pardoned?

[8thdaypriest]

Personally, I think life in prison is a WORSE punishment than the death penalty.  That's too short.  And life in prison is actually much cheaper than the death penalty ( I did some research on that one).  I think THAT is the reason why there are more executions in the US.  We think we can afford it.  LOL    There is also the issue of an innocent party being executed. 

Moses didn't have the option of a super-max prison.  Execution was the only option to protect the congregation.  

The crime rate is very low in Saudi Arabia.  (If you don't count the abuse of women - of course.)   

 

Edited June 2, 2015 by 8thdaypriest

[joeb]

​Remember that we're talking about the law of the land. Secular law doesn't distinguish between “repentant” and “unrepentant” sinners when it comes to capital punishment. There's only one thing that matters, and that is that you have been found guilty in court! Even if you find Jesus while you're on death row you are still given the lethal injection in the end. Your religious profession doesn't matter to the judicial system.

Who knows, perhaps some of the men who each year are executed would have become a Paul or a Moses if they had been pardoned?

​Ah, but we are talking about some people who lived under a theocracy, and others who did not.  It's one more example of how you are comparing apples and oranges.  I've already given two examples of how your comparisons and examples are far from convincing.  Do you really think if Moses and David had not confessed their sins God would have let them go unpunished and continued to use them?  It's plain from the Bible that their lives would have been much different if they had not. 

[LifeHiscost]

​Ah, but we are talking about some people who lived under a theocracy, and others who did not.  It's one more example of how you are comparing apples and oranges.  I've already given two examples of how your comparisons and examples are far from convincing.  Do you really think if Moses and David had not confessed their sins God would have let them go unpunished and continued to use them?  It's plain from the Bible that their lives would have been much different if they had not. 

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God is Love!  Jesus saves!