Has God promised more than He could or willing to deliver?

[Gerr]

For example:  

 "I will rebuke the devourer...." Mal 3:11   You pay your tithe, but deer, groundhog, rabbits, or worms devour or destroy your garden anyway.

"Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it..." Jn 14:13.  "If anyone among you is sick, call the elders...."Jam 5:14.  You ask for pain relief, but you keep on hurting anyway.  You ask for healing, and get a funeral instead.

I could bring up many more, but fill in the promises that you yourself have met disappointment with.

 

                       

[Stan]

This is one of the real questions that people are afraid to ask, thank you for posting this.

 

When I asked a similar question I was told God always answers it is either Yes No or Later... I thought what a cop-out. Surely we deserve a better answer than a catch all phrase for real questions.

[joeb]

Has God over-promised?  No.  Do I pretend to understand I know the why of every question you brought up?  Nope.  I just know that I trust God.  I've seen too much of Him to ever think He would lead us to believe that which isn't true about Him.  For me one idea answers the question.  If God has over-promised then He lied, and every charge made against Him by the devil is true....  Do you believe that is true?  If not, then just keep on trusting Him.  If you do, what can I say?  There's nothing I can say or do to convince you otherwise.... 

[Gerr]

It is commendable that you have such trust in God, but what is trust based on?  If Jesus promises to me, "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it," and I beg, cry out to Him about something and nothing happens, if James says,"Is any of you sick? Call for the elders....."  You have the anointing, but nothing happens, how confident are you about the promiser and his promises?

Edited May 31, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
Added to it.

[Robert]

It is commendable that you have such trust in God, but what is trust based on?  If Jesus promises to me, "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it," and I beg, cry out to Him about something and nothing happens, if James says,"Is any of you sick? Call for the elders....."  You have the anointing, but nothing happens, how confident are you about the promiser and his promises?

​Gerry, I understand your frustration.  I have a besetting sin that sticks to me like glue.  No, I don't condone it...in fact for a season I'm beyond it, but then it comes out of left field....So I ask God, "how do I walk in the Spirit" on this sin and I still haven't figured it out.

Anyway, concerning asking God for things, James makes it clear somethings God doesn't answer:

James 4:2....You do not have, because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures. 4 You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely? 6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." 

 

 

[Naomi]

I don't know if this helps but it is a personal 'family' story about God NOT answering our prayers; we wanted it to be our will but it was His will that we realized later was answered.

My elderly father had some painful medical conditions and then he experienced a massive stroke.  A DNR was in place.  You could hear him fighting for breath outside of the Critical Care Unit.  Daddy's medical team all agreed that he couldn't last much longer and that it was for the best.  Several ministers were there, he was anointed. All prayed many prayers that God would allow him to go to sleep and be free of the pain and misery.

My daughter-in-law took her time with him and came out in a state of agitation.  "Grandpa is not ready to die ... you can't withdraw help for him!!"  "This has to stop"  No one could stop her from the pursuit of reversing the DNR ... that girl was determined!!  

Our family had some friends who were physicians who held positions of some authority at the hospital.  A staff meeting was called.  I don't know it it was the political thing to do or not.  At least I began praying, 'Not my will but thine be done" I can't speak for anyone else ... we were all in shock.  

Suddenly that horrid sound of Daddy fighting for breath stopped.  We took a collective breath of relief.  The Dr came out and said they voted to override the DNR and daddy was not on a respirator.  

It was months of physical therapy, and he could never do all that he had done before but he lived for another 8 years. True he lived in pain and was partially paralyzed and mother had to drive (LOL) but he also found joy in things he never took time for ... and he was a good witness to friends, family and neighbors.   My parents were happier together than ever before.  Daddy got to see all of his Grandchildren and they remember him.  He was active in church and on school  boards.  

Our prayers were not answered in the way that we thought was right ... God knew there was still work for Daddy to do.  God sees all around the mountain, we only see one side.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Naomi

[Gerr]

We/I have gone thru the differential dx (so to speak) as to the reason/s why our prayers are/were not being answered.

1.  Secret, unconfessed sin?  Check - acknowledge sin & confess.

2.  Wrong motives? Check, search one's heart.  Is it wrong to ask for relief?

3.  Is it God's will? Check - how could a God of love & mercy allow someone to hurt on & on? Jesus did NOT turn anyone away who came to Him for healing.  And He said He does not change.

4.  Do we ask in His name?  Check.

5. Do we ask in faith?  Check - We keep asking, and yrs go by.

6. Called for the elders?  Check - got anointed

When you have complied with all the conditions that you are aware of and still no relief, how does that affect you when you hear someone you love moaningn& groaning from pain and crying for help that doesn't come? 

[Naomi]

I can appreciate your discouragement and pain in dealing with this issue.  I realize that it has been a very long time and as her care giver it must be extremely difficult and demanding both physically and spiritually.  This is off the subject of prayer but can the doctors provide her with medicines to at least help reduce her severe pain?  

[Robert]

1.  Secret, unconfessed sin?  Check - acknowledge sin & confess.

[But God is not going to allow someone else pain based on your behavior.]

2.  Wrong motives? Check, search one's heart.  Is it wrong to ask for relief?

[Absolutely not!  My grandfather was dying of liver cancer back in 1995.  My wife and I were came up to see him and stay that Friday night.  He had really taken a bad turn; he was in a lot of pain.  So I prayed for God to let him die.  The doctors said he had maybe 6 months, but he died that same night.  At that time I was a monster, spiritually speaking, and yet God heard this heathen and answered.  So I don't buy into this idea, that some believers project, that God punishes others if you aren't living the Christian lifestyle. ]

3.  Is it God's will? Check - how could a God of love & mercy allow someone to hurt on & on? Jesus did NOT turn anyone away who came to Him for healing.  And He said He does not change.

[No...it's not God's will! I have no answer. However this old sinner, saved by grace, will ask God to answer your prayers right now.]

 

​

[Gerr]

I can appreciate your discouragement and pain in dealing with this issue.  I realize that it has been a very long time and as her care giver it must be extremely difficult and demanding both physically and spiritually.  This is off the subject of prayer but can the doctors provide her with medicines to at least help reduce her severe pain?  

I took her to different docs who tried different modalities with varying success, or should I say varying levels of failure?  I even drove over 2 hrs one way to prestigious Duke U. She was treated rudely by a doctor there who thought she was merely looking for more narcotics!  It was a good thing I was not in the  rm with her!  For the last 3+ yrs, she was seeing a pain doc who was able to give her some modicum of relief along with BF (biofeedback) that I was providing.  Narcotics are not very effective & are very constipating.  One med that gave her some relief caused symptoms of dementia when the dose was increased.  

So, yes, there are some meds that gave her varying poor relief.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo

[joeb]

It is commendable that you have such trust in God, but what is trust based on?  If Jesus promises to me, "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it," and I beg, cry out to Him about something and nothing happens, if James says,"Is any of you sick? Call for the elders....."  You have the anointing, but nothing happens, how confident are you about the promiser and his promises?

​First let me say I'm sorry you're having to go through the things you're going through.  Pain is not a fun thing.  I suffer from chronic pain.  I have for more than a decade.  I'm barely able to walk anymore.  I'm unable to put my own shoes and socks on anymore.  I can't walk 50 feet some days without having sweat break out on my forehead because of the pain, and that's with a bunch of hydrocodone in me.  Without the pain killers I can't sleep, and even then the pain is so bad I can't sleep even with them.

What is trust based on?  For me it's based on a combination of God's word and what He has done in my life.  Has He answered every prayer in a way that I thought He should?  Nope.  However, I do know, from painful experience, that not everything I want or ask for is in my own best interest.  So, should God give me what I ask for when it's not in my best interest?  I don't think so. 

The second reason I can see for God not answering a prayer the way I think He ought to is because of how the outcome of what I see as a non-answered prayer affects someone else.  Do I humbly submit or do I get mad at God?  How will someone else see that?  What witness will it be if I get mad, or what witness will it make if I submit to something i can't understand?  How does that third person see things and what it is they need to see?  Am I capable of knowing these things?  I don't see how I can possibly know this. 

You ask how confident I am about the promiser and the promises.  I'm very confident that the very best outcome will come from the situation even if my prayer is not answered word for word. 

I'll ask you this...  Is this life more important than eternity?  If I die from some disease that I ask to be cured of but make it to heaven because I kept my faith and trussst in God has God kept His promises to me?  I would say yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes. 

[pnattmbtc]

Thanks for sharing this joeb!  I really appreciate it.

Job comes to mind too, meaning that there may be other things at work besides what you see and your difficulties.  For example, perhaps someone can see you deal with your difficulties and that could lead them towards God.  That would be a great blessing too.  I was blessed by reading what you wrote.

[joeb]

Thanks for sharing this joeb!  I really appreciate it.

Job comes to mind too, meaning that there may be other things at work besides what you see and your difficulties.  For example, perhaps someone can see you deal with your difficulties and that could lead them towards God.  That would be a great blessing too.  I was blessed by reading what you wrote.

​I'm glad it helped you on some level. 

I've come to the place where I just have to admit that I don't know enough about what goes on around me that I can judge whether or not God is somehow doing me an injustice by not answering a prayer of mine, even if I think that prayer is the most important thing in the world.  Do I love my neighbor enough to suffer for their sake even though I don't know that I am?  Will my witness in how I deal with my pain teach someone else to trust God "even though the heavens fall"?  We know so little. yet think we know so much.

[Gerr]

I hope this thread is a discussion among solid food eaters and not milk drinkers.  While I am maintaining faith in our Heavenly Father, it is not my intention to unsettle anyone's faith.  But these are questions that I've had to deal with, and I'm curious how others have handled them. This might also help others who are struggling with the same issues.

So my question is, if the promises for this present life that concerns me now cannot be depended on, how can I trust the promise for the by and by?

[Stan]

Gerry, this is a real question that others are seeking answers to.  What do we do, when we feel God has let us down?

I maintain this trauma is harder on Pastors than others. Am so glad you are open enough to bring this up.

[Stan]

The Best answer I have ever come across on this issue is by Pastor Henry Wright...  a profound and real message, about getting let down and recovered when His Son died, while others had the son healed with the same problem..

It may be on youtube, but I can say that it is one of the most powerful, practical experiences I have ever watched,  It may have been in a book as well.

[phkrause]

I hear you Gerry, joeb, etc. I see my Mom everyday struggle with pain in her leg from something that she had no control over. She, me, and many others have prayed for months, if not longer, actually almost coming on a year now, for healing to her leg. She even went through the process of having an anointing a few Sabbaths ago, the Pastor, and a number of deacons and elders prayed and yet she is in more pain today than then. I sometimes just want to scream at God!! Why can't you just heal her, but than I think about Job and some of the other great people in the Bible that had problems. So I start to think and wonder, there has to be a reason why he's not healing her! Is there a lesson that he's trying to teach someone that is observing her, me, my wife, a uncle, cousin, etc. I'm with joeb, I continue to have Faith that one day we will have an answer of some kind, and than look back and be able to reflect at why God allowed this to go on for so long.

[joeb]

Without the pain killers I can't sleep, and even then the pain is so bad I can't sleep even with them.

This should say that there are days that even with the pain killers I can't sleep. 

[joeb]

I hope this thread is a discussion among solid food eaters and not milk drinkers.  While I am maintaining faith in our Heavenly Father, it is not my intention to unsettle anyone's faith.  But these are questions that I've had to deal with, and I'm curious how others have handled them. This might also help others who are struggling with the same issues.

So my question is, if the promises for this present life that concerns me now cannot be depended on, how can I trust the promise for the by and by?

​First let me say that having to watch someone that I care for suffer like your wife is is not something I have experienced.  That must be extremely difficult for I've found it's often easier to be the sufferer than the observer of the sufferer.

The physical pain I've suffered is a small part of what I've suffered.  I grew up being psychologically abused.  Even today there is no one in my family that accepts me as an equal or thinks I have any real reason to exist.  That kind of pain never really goes away other than when I'm so closely abiding in Christ that His presence takes away the pain, but I've found it difficult to maintain that type of abiding presence long term(by that I mean over consecutive years).  But I've experienced it often enough, and over long enough periods of time that I trust both the experience and the One who abides with me. 

I have questions as to why I was born into such pain.  Why did God allow my supposedly Christian family to act like they did to me.  Why did He allow me to be born into hate?  I don't know the answers to all of that.  I just know I can trust.  Personal experience tells me I can.  God's promises tell me I can.  Will all the pain go away here on earth?  I don't know, but I don't believe it to be so.  Why?  I'm not sure, but I do believe that part of the answer to all of this is that so others can learn from my experience.  It's also that I can learn just how exceedingly destructive sin really is--the exceeding sinfulness of sin. 

[8thdaypriest]

I'm sure that many believers prayed for escape from death or torture at the hands of the Romans.  But they had to be ready to suffer for Christ's sake. 

Today, we're not put into burning oil, or stretched on the rack, or burned alive, or crucified.  Here in the West, we have life pretty good - compared with the rest of the world. 

But we are tormented in OTHER WAYS.   I wonder if we can think of our sufferings, as a testing. 

I was born without a C1.  It's called Chiari Malformation.  I've had chronic headaches and neck and shoulder pain for 37 years.  When I get to feeling too sorry for myself, I try to think of others who have it worse off.  I'm not in a wheelchair.  I'm not living in a mud hut, or forced into marriage to a Muslim who beats me 4 times a day with a switch.  I wasn't born with one of the terrible disfiguring birth defects, you see on the ad's for children's hospital.  I have access to medical care and medications.

My Mom had Alzheimer's.  We finally had to put her into assisted living.  She could not be left alone, and my husband and I both worked.  (She microwaved a muffin for 30 minutes.  Next thing the fire department was calling me from my house.)  Anyway,  I prayed and prayed that the LORD would just take her before she disintegrated further.  My husband believed, but wasn't fully "settled" into it.  One weekend he came over to see me, where I was covering at a hospital 2 hours away.  He said the prayer before he left to go home.  He told the LORD that if it was OK with HIM, and if HE would let Momma go, that he would continue to go over to the Sterling House to visit the folks there.  The NEXT MORNING Mom had a massive stroke.  She died 4 days later.  My husband STILL visits the Sterling House to serve breakfast coffee every weekday morning on his way to work.  Since 2002.  He has to let them know if he's going to be gone for a few days.  The ladies will worry.  TALK ABOUT A WITNESS!! 

The night Momma died, two of the staff sat with us.  One of them began asking questions about death and the afterlife.  After 5 hours of Bible study by Momma's bedside, it was midnight and the staff suggested we needed rest.  I kissed Momma, and whispered, "Your work is done Momma."  "It's OK to go now."  We barely made it to the car, and they came out to say she had passed.  She will be very happy to learn about her last Bible study. 

[joeb]

Great post, 8thday.  I like it a lot.

[8thdaypriest]

I'm coming off six days of migraine with Tropical Storm Bill, so my thinking may be a bit clouded.  Migraines wipe out serotonin, which puts one in the dumps for awhile.

I remember Isaac was BLIND, and Jacob walked leaning on a staff.  When the LORD said, "Dieing you shall die", He did NOT say that the dieing would be painless.  Not that I remember.  I have friends suffering from chronic bowel disorders, and one with Lupus affecting her heart, and several with mirgraines, and one who is sadly childless.    What was it the fellow said?  "Life's a ***** and then you die." 

Even Paul said, "I would rather depart, to be with Christ, but because it is needful for you, I will labor on" - or something to that effect.  I'm glad he said that.  Because I don't have to feel guilty when I would rather be GONE from this painful world.  But I will say with Paul, "If it is needful for you LORD, that I remain, then I will keep working." 

I wonder at times, whether Paul just had a different experience, back in the first 40 years after the resurrection, than we have today.  He expected that when the elders anointed someone, that someone would be healed.  Period!  So Paul THOUGHT the experience of believers would continue to be that predictable.  We ask.  God grants!! 

I mean, was it misleading for Jesus to tell John, "Behold I come quickly" ?  Don't know about your definition of "quickly" or "soon", but 1900 years + doesn't even come close to mine !! 

Was Paul correct in every statement??  Did his view apply to EVERY situation??  Should females be quiet in church, and never have authority higher than a male's authority.  So then "Judge Judy", or female Supreme Court Justices are NOT according to God's will???  (Or EGW either for that matter.)

I don't think we can "understand" - this side of eternity - WHY God allowed things to be soooooo painful.  We just have to trust Him, 'cause He showed us that He loves us.  I guess it's like major surgery.  You have to get through the pain, to be healed.  This world is "the pain" - and Heaven will be "the healing". 

 

[JoeMo]

Just because God has a work or purpose for us doesn't guarantee freedom from pain and stress.  For some, their purpose may be to remain faithful even through their pain and stress.  Jesus even asked to be relieved of His duty "if it were possible".  My guess is that hat prayer was not answered in the way Jesus was hoping for.

I wonder at times, whether Paul just had a different experience, back in the first 40 years after the resurrection, than we have today.  He expected that when the elders anointed someone, that someone would be healed.  Period!  So Paul THOUGHT the experience of believers would continue to be that predictable.  We ask.  God grants!!

I mean, was it misleading for Jesus to tell John, "Behold I come quickly" ?  Don't know about your definition of "quickly" or "soon", but 1900 years + doesn't even come close to mine !!

Was Paul correct in every statement??  Did his view apply to EVERY situation??  Should females be quiet in church, and never have authority higher than a male's authority.  So then "Judge Judy", or female Supreme Court Justices are NOT according to God's will???  (Or EGW either for that matter.)

I don't think we can "understand" - this side of eternity - WHY God allowed things to be soooooo painful.  We just have to trust Him, 'cause He showed us that He loves us.  I guess it's like major surgery.  You have to get through the pain, to be healed.  This world is "the pain" - and Heaven will be "the healing".

 

The poins you make here are great!

I've been pondering for weeks why Jesus would tell us that we would do works greater than His, and that sign that would accompany believers would include healing the sick and driving out demons.  Jesus Himself said that His words were backed up by signs and wonders.  Paul and Peter talked about how they backed up their words with signs and wonders.

I always though some of what is written in the apostles was specific to the cultures and times in which they lived; and is misinterpreted when brought down to modern times (e.g., leadership of women in the church).

I believe that Jesus did come quickly after His resurrection.  Not the impending literal physical Second Coming; but a spiritual coming as the Comforter.  Rather than a 3rd person of the Trinity, I believe that the HS is the Spirit of Christ - the "God stuff" that Jesus left behind in heaven when he came to earth as a human.  With His spirit here, we all can have the fullness of Christ living in our hearts.  Before His ascencion He did promise to be with us always.

[8thdaypriest]

Cumulatively - put together - all the believers from Peter's time to the SC - have done and will do greater works than Jesus did while he was physically present on this earth..  He directly - in person - influenced only a few, in a tiny nation.  But His spirit through us, will tell the WHOLE WORLD, and win a multitude for His kingdom.  

An individual will NOT do "greater works then these".  The total sum of believers WILL.