Rebuke for Crying Child in a Diner Starts a Parenting Debate

[bonnie]

Rebuke for Crying Child in a Diner Starts a Parenting Debate

By KATIE ROGERSJULY 21, 2015

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Marcy's Diner in Portland, Me., in an image from the restaurant's Facebook page. CreditFacebook

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A Facebook exchange between the owner of a Maine diner and the mother of a screaming young girl brought the wildfire capabilities of social media to a classic — and divergent — debate over parenting in public.

Darla Neugebauer, who owns Marcy’s Diner in Portland, was unapologetic after yelling “That needs to stop!” and pointing at a girl who she said had been screaming for the better part of an hour.

“You have a problem with a child crying then you are not suitable to run a business,” the child’s mother, Tara Carson, posted to the diner’s Facebook page after the encounter.

Ms. Neugebauer then responded with an expletive-laden post, which has since been taken down, that blamed Ms. Carson’s parenting, saying that the child had been struggling to eat a large order of pancakes, and that the adults at the table were ignoring the crying. She later defended her actions to a local news station.

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Parents, people without children and restaurant industry veterans soon congregated on the page to share their thoughts on whether Ms. Neugebauer’s actions were out of line.

“Good for you!!!” wrote a user named Jill Brown, who gave the restaurant a 5-star rating. “I own a restaurant in NC and this is a universal problem.”

“Unprofessional business owner,” wrote a 1-star reviewer, Albert Lee. “Who screams at a baby?”

By Tuesday, the debate had crossed over to Twitter.

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[Sojourner]

Personally I would not allow any of my children to cry uncontrolably for over an hour in a diner, I would take the child out and offer comfort to resolve the problem, if it could not be resolved I would leave and go home or somewhere else.

I have been on a plane with a child crying the whole trip and it did not worry me as I am well aware that the parents had no other choice and did the best that they could. Two very different situations though if what is being reported here is factual.

[Naomi]

I cannot imagine allowing a child to cry/scream for approx. an hour under any circumstances.  In a public restaurant is beyond belief.  Take the child outside, do some, anything.  It can't be healthy for the child or parent

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think the vast majority are on the side of the restaurant owner...

[DreamWeaver]

I think the vast majority are on the side of the restaurant owner...

I know I pretty much am on the restaurant owner's side in this particular situation. Hopefully the irresponsible behavior of the parents didn't scare away needed customers.  And I hope the baby doesn't get ignored at home on some level.

Edited July 22, 2015 by DreamWeaver

[Outta Here]

I'm not on the side of the restaurant owner. Her behavior toward the family was extremely unprofessional, and it is clear from her choice of words on her Facebook post that she is not a person who enjoys children: calling the child a "beast", "monster", "rotten child", and "f---ing child."  She even goes as far as to say they are lucky it didn't get physical because she is someone who does not cower from males or females.

I'm not on the side of the parents. Forty minutes is too long to take care of the needs of their child. One of the two parents (or both, ideally) could have seen to the child's needs and calmed her down so as not to disrupt the other patrons. 

I am on the side of the child. No child should ever have to face the rage of an adult. Children--especially infants and toddlers--do not have the reasoning capacity to fully understand the outburst. No child should ever have to face hunger. They are solely dependent on adults to fill their needs.

My best advice to the family involved (and to other families who have children who love pancakes): Go to IHOP. They love kids and know how to make pancakes in less than 5 minutes--even on a busy weekend shift.

[bonnie]

The restaurant owner was not in anyway responsible for the behavior of an out of control child,whether she likes children or not. The child was only doing what the parents allow.

There is absolutely no excuse for anyone to think that their child should be allowed to disrupt everyone else. If the child is sick or in pain she should be at home.

[Outta Here]

Agreed, Bonnie. With one qualifier: While the restaurant owner was not in anyway responsible for the behavior of an out of control child, the restaurant owner is responsible for their own behavior. Addressing the out of control behavior with rage, ridicule and amplified profanity is not a justifiably legitimate solution.

[DreamWeaver]

Agreed, Bonnie. With one qualifier: While the restaurant owner was not in anyway responsible for the behavior of an out of control child, the restaurant owner is responsible for their own behavior. Addressing the out of control behavior with rage, ridicule and amplified profanity is not a justifiably legitimate solution.

I don't think she ridiculed and cursed the child out. I think she posted the profanity on FB towards the parents. What I think she did to the child was say: "This needs to stop!!" or "That needs to stop!!" Not sure how loud she said it to the child though. But she might have just used a loud enough tone so the child could hear her over the crying and then had a stern face too.

*shrugs* I wasn't there. But I think the anger was really directed to the mother since she posted a provoking comment on social media that could have made her actions seem completely warped and probably could have scared away customers with kids.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't feel that shouting "This needs to stop!" is rage, ridicule, or amplified profanity.  If the out-of-control child is wailing, a soft-spoken "Please, little child, stop crying" is not even going to be heard.  As a patron of the restaurant, I might have said something to the parents to the effect of, "Will you PLEASE do something about that child's crying??!!  Or I would have left the restaurant, and the restaurant owner would have been out income from money lost....due to the child's behavior.  At some point, acknowledgement needs to be made that one's behavior, be it that of a child or that of an adult, *does* affect others who are also customers at a business.

Even at two years old, a child can know what is acceptable behavior and what is not, if the parents properly trained her...

[DreamWeaver]

At some point, acknowledgement needs to be made that one's behavior, be it that of a child or that of an adult, *does* affect others who are also customers at a business.

Even at two years old, a child can know what is acceptable behavior and what is not, if the parents properly trained her...

Yeah. And seeing that she's probably working for a small business too, that makes it all the more difficult to win back customers after something that disruptive in the diner happens. And then the whole FB thing... That social media can really tear your chances of making a living UP! I think while her attitude on FB was aggressive, she was seriously being tested by one obnoxious customer.

Sometimes one obnoxious customer is all it takes. Then you're shutting down and packing up.

Edited July 22, 2015 by DreamWeaver

[B/W Photodude]

I would probably be more likely to go there. Yeah, it was over the top in the way she spoke to the situation, but the parents were way over the top in subjecting everyone else in the restaurant to this child's temper tantrum or whatever it was screaming about. But at least the proprietor FINALLY did something about it. I get really tired of merchants of any type who simply let members of the public be inconvenienced other by rude patrons. So, in my book, the restaurant proprietor was no more guilty of bad behavior than the parents were. Almost an hour the patrons of this restaurant were tormented by this child?! Really?!

Airpanes were mentioned before. There is a different situation. And it would be good if parents would study up on children in airplanes before flying with them. Adults and children of an older age know how the deal with pressure changes in the cabin. Babies don't and their ears can get very uncomfortable with the pressure changes on their ears. I believe the cabin pressure is equivalent to about 11,000 feet above sea level. That is huge to a baby's ears. Of course, I am also surprised that cabin crews are not more knowledgeable in helping parents in this regard also.

[bonnie]

Agreed, Bonnie. With one qualifier: While the restaurant owner was not in anyway responsible for the behavior of an out of control child, the restaurant owner is responsible for their own behavior. Addressing the out of control behavior with rage, ridicule and amplified profanity is not a justifiably legitimate solution.

Obviously the parents are still clueless if the mother is the one that put it on facebook. Even a toddler can understand No or Stop if they have heard those words and they have been enforced at home. at home.

Regardless of how the owner responded neither her nor the other customers have to put up with a screaming out of control kid for that length of time. There would not have been a response had the mother either first acted as a parent or been embarrassed enough to shut her mouth about her failure as a mother.

[Outta Here]

Golly that child was obnoxious.

Gee those parents were neglectful.

Jeepers that restraunteur was appropriate.

[bonnie]

Golly that child was obnoxious.

Gee those parents were neglectful.

Jeepers that restraunteur was appropriate.

1.Golly that child was  obnoxious. .

The child certainly was behvaing in a obnoxious manner

 

2.Gee those parents were neglectful.

They most certainly were

 

3 Jeepers that restraunteur was appropriate.

From the article the restraunteur  was appropriate in the facility. The mother apparently wanted to take it further and whine on facebook that her child wasn't appreciated for her behavior. What was said after away from the fact isn't at issue as to what took place in the restuarant

[hch]

The solution for crying children in Church is a quick silent prayer.

I offer one every time the need arises and almost instantly the child is calmed or is removed from the room.

Maybe that would work in a diner too?

 

[bonnie]

The solution for crying children in Church is a quick silent prayer.

I offer one every time the need arises and almost instantly the child is calmed or is removed from the room.

Maybe that would work in a diner too?

 

A child that cries in church from time to time is far different than a screaming toddler for close to an hour. A toddler is old enough to understand No or Stop. If they don't they have not been taught

[Outta Here]

Okay, so the other sources I read say the child was crying, not screaming. Regardless, I'm not saying the parents were reasonable. It would break my heart to see a toddler crying for more than 30 seconds! 

But those same sources say the owner of the restaurant screamed at the top of her lungs to the toddler, "THIS NEEDS TO STOP!" 

My thought is that it is unprofessional for the owner to act like that. Screaming at a child isn't appropriate. Period.

Swearing all over Facebook isn't appropriate either. It's not professional for any restaurant owner. 

[bonnie]

No swearing all over facebook isn't acceptable. Foul language is very common and most people don't think anything of it.

Perhaps she was yelling for it to stop. Maybe to be heard above the child. Doubtful she was screaming at the child,more likely the clueless mother.

Had I been there trying to have a meal I would more than likely leave after the first 15 minutes and would inform the owner as to why. 

The mother had the first and most important responsibility. That is to control her toddler. If she can't control the child maybe the child should not be brought to places where she can make everyone else miserable

I would have been to embarrassed to whine on facebook that my child controlled me instead of the other way around

[hch]

A child that cries in church from time to time is far different than a screaming toddler for close to an hour. A toddler is old enough to understand No or Stop. If they don't they have not been taught

God does not usually take that long to calm a child. Wonder if the parents were poorly prepared for the situation and if anybody even took time to pray?  Some times we have not because we ask not.

That fellow that prayed whenever he saw a need: discovered that God was interested, when he took time to ask.

[bonnie]

God does not usually take that long to calm a child. Wonder if the parents were poorly prepared for the situation and if anybody even took time to pray?  Some times we have not because we ask not.

That fellow that prayed whenever he saw a need: discovered that God was interested, when he took time to ask.

So for those parents that don't pray they can expect an out of control child.? The child is out of control because of the parents lack in discipline and controlling their child. If the child was acquainted with the word No and that is what it meant the problem would have been resolved rather quickly.

We had a toddler in our church some years ago when my children were small. He was a tyrant .He was so disruptive that it made church service difficult for all. You did not want him sitting behind you as you might find yourself getting whacked with the hymnal. Mom and dad repeatedly said "now please stop that isn't nice". Guess what he didn't care because he didn't have to. The parents had been spoken to privately and nothing changed,he was just a high spirited toddler. We got a new pastor,after a couple of services the pastor stopped the service and just stood there. He told the parents if they would kindly take the child to the children's room he would continue with the service. That was the end of any problem with this child. Suddenly the parents,embarrassed enough took control of the little angel and he could behave.

Children should not be allowed to control the adults,regardless if the parents believe in prayer or not

[hch]

So for those parents that don't pray they can expect an out of control child.? The child is out of control because of the parents lack in discipline and controlling their child. If the child was acquainted with the word No and that is what it meant the problem would have been resolved rather quickly.

We had a toddler in our church some years ago when my children were small. He was a tyrant .He was so disruptive that it made church service difficult for all. You did not want him sitting behind you as you might find yourself getting whacked with the hymnal. Mom and dad repeatedly said "now please stop that isn't nice". Guess what he didn't care because he didn't have to. The parents had been spoken to privately and nothing changed,he was just a high spirited toddler. We got a new pastor,after a couple of services the pastor stopped the service and just stood there. He told the parents if they would kindly take the child to the children's room he would continue with the service. That was the end of any problem with this child. Suddenly the parents,embarrassed enough took control of the little angel and he could behave.

Children should not be allowed to control the adults,regardless if the parents believe in prayer or not

parents that do not pray need people like you to intercede for them with your silent heart felt prayers. Or to stand up and identify the situation with a Christian attitude like the new pastor did with his example of interrupting the sermon. But too often folks won't pray, they will not intercede, they do nothing, but they will vocalize after the fact.

There's the story of the businessman ready for bed in his berth on the train and the kid that cried for his mom. The the businessman shouted to the boy's father "quiet him down or take him to his mother". The dad replied that his wife was in the baggage car in her coffin. The businessman realized that the dad needed his help at that moment more than the businessman needed a good night's sleep. The businessman dressed quickly and gently took the child so the dad could get some rest.

Times have changed since people had berths on trains. But going to a stranger that is having a visible problem to ask if there is anything that we can do is not out of date. We don't have to let a problem go until a new preacher comes to town. Some of the moms at our church have Sabbath bags and they would move their family right to where the noisy child is and offer to let him make a puzzle or color a picture with their children.

[bonnie]

The owner of the restuarant did not vocalize after the fact. She did at the time. It is not always healthy to intercede with parents that are total strangers. Obviously this mother was not to upset with the uncontrollable behaviour of the toddler.

I am not dismissing prayer but over the years I have known many parents that probably never prayed and they had well behaved children. If all a parent does is pray and does not apply some practical parenting  I don't think it is to successful. 

This child's mother was not in a coffin and was just doing what the parents have allowed

Edited July 23, 2015 by bonnie

[Outta Here]

I know it's late in asking, but what is the point of this thread? Is it to point out that some people are horrible parents? Is it to point out that this generation of people just don't do things right? What was the reason for sharing it?

[bonnie]

I know it's late in asking, but what is the point of this thread? Is it to point out that some people are horrible parents? Is it to point out that this generation of people just don't do things right? What was the reason for sharing it?

What was the point of you responding? Actually I find things like this puzzeling. Why any parent feels they have a right to let a out of control child disrupt everyone around them and then whine on facebook is something I fail to understand

Edited July 23, 2015 by bonnie