More slander against Ben Carson

[joeb]

Ben Carson has been accused of slandering the victims of the UCC shootings.  The charge is itself slander for it is a completely dishonest attack on him.  The attack is at the following link.  https://www.thenation.com/article/ben-carson-just-keeps-getting-more-awful-why/

What the author of the article leaves out is that Ben was responding to a question put to him of how HE would respond in the same situation.  How an answer to that question can be construed as attacking victims of a mass shooting is beyond me.  Well, it's not really beyond me.  All you have to do is put aside all honesty and then you can construe his answer to mean anything you please.  

This goes to show the depths to which the liberal media will sink in their attempts to knock Carson out of the Presidential race.   There is a whole lot of fear on the left when this type of slander is being used.  Why the fear?  Because Ben is an accomplished, intelligent, black conservative who proves not all blacks fit into the mold the liberal media likes to put blacks in.  A mold that is highly insulting to blacks if you ask me.  

[CoAspen]

Are you able to talk or post with out saying 'liberal' all the time? Just wondering......

[Bravus]

Did he say that he would not just have stood there and let someone shoot him? Are those words he said? If so, do you think it is slander to interpret those words as at least implicit criticism of the courage of those who were shot?

He seems also to have said that the Jews just needed guns to avert the Holocaust.

Line up behind this man if you wish: "out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks". He will keep on revealing his character in the things he says.

[Jack Chaffin Jr]

Did he say that he would not just have stood there and let someone shoot him? Are those words he said? If so, do you think it is slander to interpret those words as at least implicit criticism of the courage of those who were shot?

He seems also to have said that the Jews just needed guns to avert the Holocaust.

Line up behind this man if you wish: "out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks". He will keep on revealing his character in the things he says.

Actually, the Nazis themselves commented on the fact that the Jews they rounded up were by and large inoffensive to their captors, and they were able to round them up and kill them with a minimum of manpower.  It actually did make the Holocaust much more possible than almost any other single thing.  Were the Jews armed, and were they willing to defend their rights as human beings and citizens, the Nazis would have had to expend much more resources to do what they did.  Not to say that they might not have still been successful, but resistance would have made it much more difficult.

[joeb]

 

 

Did he say that he would not just have stood there and let someone shoot him? Are those words he said? If so, do you think it is slander to interpret those words as at least implicit criticism of the courage of those who were shot?

He seems also to have said that the Jews just needed guns to avert the Holocaust.

Line up behind this man if you wish: "out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks". He will keep on revealing his character in the things he says.

In your statement are some interesting ideas.  To say you would act different than another person did under the same circumstances is somehow to slander them?  Then you could take that same idea and say the veteran who stood up to the shooter at UCC was slandering his fellow victims because he didn't just stand there and get shot.  This is just plain lunacy as it's only a small step from your position to the one I just put forth.  

Here's more on this lunacy, which I see as nothing but hypocrisy.  Just a few weeks ago the same media people criticising Carson called the guys that stopped the shooting on the train in France heroes because they stood up and fought back.  Then they called the veteran who stood up to the shooter a hero.  Then, Carson says he would do the same thing all four of those guys did and he is slandering people and out of bounds.   If you didn't call those four guys out as slandering all the victims of mass shootings who didn't fight back then you're just as big a hypocrite as the media. 

This dishonesty just drives me up the wall.  I hate it.

Edited October 9, 2015 by joeb

[Bravus]

You need to read more carefully, particularly if you are going to accuse me of dishonesty.

You will not that I have never said that Ben Carson was slandering the victims of murder, either of the recent mass shootings or of the Holocaust. The original article may have said so, but I have not.

What I have said is that it is not slander to simply point out the clear implications of Ben Carson's comments.

Murderers are to blame for murder, not their victims. This insane macho fantasy of guns being the solution to murder is insane, and saying so is not slander.

[Jeannieb43]

An Op-Ed piece in today's WASHINGTON POST is captioned "The Most Unfit GOP Candidate is Not Trump."   This piece is by Jennifer Rubin and is about Ben Carson.

I've always felt he was wasting his time and money by entering the presidential race.   He's not cut out for that type of stuff, IMHO. 

[bonnie]

Did he say that he would not just have stood there and let someone shoot him? Are those words he said? If so, do you think it is slander to interpret those words as at least implicit criticism of the courage of those who were shot?

He seems also to have said that the Jews just needed guns to avert the Holocaust.

Line up behind this man if you wish: "out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks". He will keep on revealing his character in the things he says.

Perhaps it would have been more politically correct if Spencer Stone and two other men had just watched instead of preventing a terror attack'.How much more sensitive those three would have been to those that would have become victims. 

It probably was viewed as implicit criticism of those that stood by

 

• U.S.

Airman Who Helped Foil French Train Attack Stabbed in California

Spencer Stone, one of three Americans credited with preventing potential terror attack, in stable condition

[bonnie]

Isn't this where maybe racism should be considered.  After all,if a conservative said Line up behind this man if you wish: "out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks". He will keep on revealing his character in the things he says with the same intent we would certainly have heard the tired old race card

[bonnie]

Did he say that he would not just have stood there and let someone shoot him? Are those words he said? If so, do you think it is slander to interpret those words as at least implicit criticism of the courage of those who were shot?

He seems also to have said that the Jews just needed guns to avert the Holocaust.

Line up behind this man if you wish: "out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks". He will keep on revealing his character in the things he says.

You need to read more carefully, particularly if you are going to accuse me of dishonesty.

You will not that I have never said that Ben Carson was slandering the victims of murder, either of the recent mass shootings or of the Holocaust. The original article may have said so, but I have not.

What I have said is that it is not slander to simply point out the clear implications of Ben Carson's comments.

Murderers are to blame for murder, not their victims. This insane macho fantasy of guns being the solution to murder is insane, and saying so is not slander.

If so, do you think it is slander to interpret those words as at least implicit criticism of the courage of those who were shot?

He seems also to have said that the Jews just needed guns to avert the Holocaust.

 

This says what? Just asking a question that you have not implied a negative answer to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joeb]

You need to read more carefully, particularly if you are going to accuse me of dishonesty.

You will not that I have never said that Ben Carson was slandering the victims of murder, either of the recent mass shootings or of the Holocaust. The original article may have said so, but I have not.

What I have said is that it is not slander to simply point out the clear implications of Ben Carson's comments.

Murderers are to blame for murder, not their victims. This insane macho fantasy of guns being the solution to murder is insane, and saying so is not slander.

Baloney.  If his words are slandering then actions, which are much more powerful than words, taken by those who wouldn't just sit still and be murdered, are a far greater indictment.  Why praise those who act and criticise those who agree with what they did and say so?  That's pure hypocrisy in my eyes.

Yes you did.  Your words very clearly implied criticism of what Carson said.  You did not disagree with the article in any way.  You, in fact, by your words agreed with it.

A "macho fantasy"?  The facts support the assertion that gun ownership lowers violent crime.  Everywhere gun ownership has been made easier, and in some places mandatory, violent crime has been reduced.  Criminals are basically cowards.  They do not like going into a situation where they know people will fight back.  They go to the places where they have the greatest chance of success with the lowest possible chance of harm coming to them.  This is why all these mass shootings have taken place in "gun free" zones.  They know no one there can fight back, so that's where they attack. 

Let's look at Chicago for an example of how well gun laws work.  The everyday, law abiding, guy there has a terrible time buying a gun.  Has that slowed the murder rate?  Nope.  However, the criminals all have guns and use them frequently.  Someone is shot there 8 times a day.  Someone is killed there every 16 or so hours.  So, have very restrictive gun laws done anything to reduce gun violence?  Absolutely not.  Why not?  Because, by definition, criminals don't obey laws.  If they did they wouldn't be criminals.  Only law abiding people obey laws.  So, who do the gun laws take guns away from?  The law abiding people.  All the gun laws do is make it next to impossible for the law abiding person to defend himself.  Cops cannot stop a murder or a robbery, but a citizen who is armed can defend himself and thus give himself a chance. 

[bonnie]

An Op-Ed piece in today's WASHINGTON POST is captioned "The Most Unfit GOP Candidate is Not Trump."   This piece is by Jennifer Rubin and is about Ben Carson.

I've always felt he was wasting his time and money by entering the presidential race.   He's not cut out for that type of stuff, IMHO. 

Maybe she should do a little more research. 

The Anti-Defamation League roundly condemned his remarks. (“The small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews in 1938 could in no way have stopped the totalitarian power of the Nazi German state.”)

 

Nazi Germany did not wake up one fine morning in 1938,confiscate the guns from the Jeswish and bam they had the Holocoust.

It was a ongoing confiscation for years along with other abuses before the Holocoust. They went along like sheep for a good long while,when the time came they were totally defenseless 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jack Chaffin Jr]

Maybe she should do a little more research. 

The Anti-Defamation League roundly condemned his remarks. (“The small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews in 1938 could in no way have stopped the totalitarian power of the Nazi German state.”)

 

Nazi Germany did not wake up one fine morning in 1938,confiscate the guns from the Jeswish and bam they had the Holocoust.

It was a ongoing confiscation for years along with other abuses before the Holocoust. They went along like sheep for a good long while,when the time came they were totally defenseless 

 

CORRECT!  In virtually every tyranny in modern times, the tyrant first ensures that nobody but he and his forces is armed.  The Founders of this country were aware of this propensity, and took steps to prevent it.  One may or may not be personally in favor of owning a firearm, but in our country, until the Constitution is changed, the 2nd Amendment is as legitimate as the 1st Amendment. 

[Bravus]

One key fact that is being ignored: the people who stopped the attack on the train in France did not use guns!

I like to think that, if I saw a terrorist attack in progress, I would find a way to run in and crash-tackle the shooter. It might even happen... or I might die in the attempt.

What I would not do is kill in the attempt - because I would not have a gun.

Carson was talking about guns, so the case in France is largely irrelevant as an argument.

[Bravus]

I'd be very interested to see some credible evidence on the disarming of the German population prior to WW2.

[bonnie]

When the Nazi party came into power in 1933 they began their systematic persecution of the Jews.Within months the boycott of Jewish businesses began and Jews were banned from all government jobs and expelled from college.

By 1938 they were like the frog in the water. Slowly but surely it got worse and worse until they were doomed. Hitler began his hateful diatribe against the Jews long before that.

Could they have beaten it back had they recognized and acknowledged the danger in the beginning?

 

 

 

[Bravus]

Isn't this where maybe racism should be considered.  After all,if a conservative said Line up behind this man if you wish: "out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks". He will keep on revealing his character in the things he says with the same intent we would certainly have heard the tired old race card

I don't even...? What did Dr King's 'Dream' speech say? "a man will be judged, not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character". I'm very explicitly doing just that.

[bonnie]

I don't even...? What did Dr King's 'Dream' speech say? "a man will be judged, not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character". I'm very explicitly doing just that.

Really? To bad that the same consideration is not given to those that dislike the Obama Presidency. Then it is all racist

Just curious,how would you describe Ben Carsons character?

Edited October 9, 2015 by bonnie

[joeb]

I'd be very interested to see some credible evidence on the disarming of the German population prior to WW2.

Here's a link to a book on this very subject.  http://www.independent.org/guncontrol/

Here is a review of the book.  https://mises.org/library/gun-control-nazi-germany

[joeb]

One key fact that is being ignored: the people who stopped the attack on the train in France did not use guns!

I like to think that, if I saw a terrorist attack in progress, I would find a way to run in and crash-tackle the shooter. It might even happen... or I might die in the attempt.

What I would not do is kill in the attempt - because I would not have a gun.

Carson was talking about guns, so the case in France is largely irrelevant as an argument.

Wrong.  He was asked what he would do if in the same position as the students at UCC.  He simply replied that he would charge the shooter and encourage those around him to do the same for to sit and do nothing is to ensure that people will die.  His point was that even unarmed citizens can, and should, defend themselves in that situation.  He never came close to mentioning guns for charging a shooter is completely unnecessary if you are armed.  No point in doing it if you can stand 20 yards away and still defend yourself.

[joeb]

I don't even...? What did Dr King's 'Dream' speech say? "a man will be judged, not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character". I'm very explicitly doing just that.

Yes, Ben Carson is showing what his character is like, and he's showing himself to be a man of great character.  You show yours too by what you say and how you attack him.  We all display our characters by what we stand for, and what we stand against.  I'll stand for liberty and individualism every day of the week.  You can stand for government-mandated morality and collectivism all you want.  The Bible backs up my position.  Politics is all you have to back yours.

[GayatfootofCross]

In the last few months i have been listening very carefully when Dr. Ben Carson speaks. Not just sound bits and pundits and spinners but really really listening.to the context and current events he is addressing.

And it occurred to me that many answers to specific questions put to him are on par with the simplistic platitudes addressing society ills in any given Sabbath School Class. And seems like everyone nods with self satisfaction.

It works in fellowship dinners and Sabbath hikes with like minded people...but not the media in politics where everyone sees differently and educated according to their own political platform.

And esp. not with people who recognize these issues are way too complex to be summed up in a quick  Q&A session.

Dr. Ben Carson is a product of our own  Exclusive Church Culture Mentality and it is painful to watch on the National Stage.

 

# not to take a way his kind considerate demeanor and terrific Testimony

..still not voting for him

 

 

Edited October 10, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[bonnie]

 

And it occurred to me that many answers to specific questions put to him are on par with the simplistic platitudes addressing society ills in any given Sabbath School Class. And seems like everyone nods with self satisfaction.

It works in fellowship dinners and Sabbath hikes with like minded people...but not the media in politics where everyone sees differently and educated according to their own political platform.

And esp. not with people who recognize these issues are way too complex to be summed up in a quick  Q&A session.

Dr. Ben Carson is a product of our own  Exclusive Church Culture Mentality and it is painful to watch on the National Stage.

 

# not to take a way his kind considerate demeanor and terrific Testimony

..still not voting for him

 

 

And it occurred to me that many answers to specific questions put to him are on par with the simplistic platitudes addressing society ills in any given Sabbath School Class. And seems like everyone nods with self satisfaction

 

It is unfortunate that you have such disdain for anything dealing with the SDA church. I doubt that you have the knowledge to speak to any given Sabbath School class. Most SS classes are not simplistic platitudes or at least not the ones I attend. 

 

It works in fellowship dinners and Sabbath hikes with like minded people...but not the media in politics where everyone sees differently and educated according to their own political platform.

There are those of course that want an answer that pleases them or makes them feel good about the life they are living.

And esp. not with people who recognize these issues are way too complex to be summed up in a quick  Q&A session.

You probably aren't the only one with the ability to understand that questions being asked are not for the purpose of summing up or explaining in depth in a quick Q&A

 

Dr. Ben Carson is a product of our own  Exclusive Church Culture Mentality and it is painful to watch on the National Stage.

 

I believe as you do many will find Dr Carsons assurance in the exclusive culture he has chosen to be a part of painful. That is only natural.

For myself, I also want to be a part of that exclusive club  with him when all is said and done. I don't want to be a part of any other exclusive 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gerr]

An Op-Ed piece in today's WASHINGTON POST is captioned "The Most Unfit GOP Candidate is Not Trump."   This piece is by Jennifer Rubin and is about Ben Carson.

I've always felt he was wasting his time and money by entering the presidential race.   He's not cut out for that type of stuff, IMHO. 

What  qualities would qualify one to be cut out for the presidency?

[GayatfootofCross]

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