Do you have an explanation for the origin of sin?

[Wingnut]

The Sabbath study of October 17-23, Lesson 4 says the following on P 36.

"In this regard, Ellen G. White wrote: "It is impossible to explain the origin of sin so as to give a reason for its existence...Sin is an intruder, for whose presence no reason can be given.  It is mysterious, unaccountable; to excuse it is to defend it. Could excuse for it be found, or cause be shown for its existence, it would cease to be sin." - Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 492, 493.

There are things which are impossible to explain, such as where God came from, and mysterious, such as when Christ will return.

The Bible speaks about sin from Genesis to Revelation.  It tells us how sin entered heaven (Lucifer) and Eden (Eve).

I do not understand which aspects of the origin of sin, Ellen felt were "impossible to explain".  Would anyone like to try to clarify this, and make a stab at the answer. 

 

 

[phkrause]

I have no problem with her statement. i agree that there are mysteries which are very hard to explain! To me sin is also one of them. Not sure that I can clarify, we all have our own ideas I would say towards the comments of EGW, etc. I look at it like this: Its like the man that has everything in life, he has a great wife that does everything you can think of for him and his family. He has 2 maybe 3 or 4 wonderful children, a nice home, 2 cars, awesome job, etc., etc. and he gives it all up by having an affair, or becoming an alcoholic, drug addict, etc., etc. That's what I think of when I read about Lucifer, he had everything, but he wanted more he wanted to take God the Sons place in heaven. Why?? We know the simplistic reasons! Pride, selfishness, greed, etc. Sure the Bible speaks about sin from G to R, but that's after the fact, Lucifer had already sinned in heaven!! That's my opinion or thoughts.

[Gail]

Perhaps we cannot explain it because a sinful nature was our inheritance. It wasn't Lucifer's. He sinned from his own free will. We are naturally selfishly-hearted, whereas Lucifer nurtured a selfish heart when he was already exalted and privileged. I like pkrause's thought.

[Wingnut]

I have no problem with her statement. i agree that there are mysteries which are very hard to explain! To me sin is also one of them. Not sure that I can clarify, we all have our own ideas I would say towards the comments of EGW, etc. I look at it like this: Its like the man that has everything in life, he has a great wife that does everything you can think of for him and his family. He has 2 maybe 3 or 4 wonderful children, a nice home, 2 cars, awesome job, etc., etc. and he gives it all up by having an affair, or becoming an alcoholic, drug addict, etc., etc. That's what I think of when I read about Lucifer, he had everything, but he wanted more he wanted to take God the Sons place in heaven. Why?? We know the simplistic reasons! Pride, selfishness, greed, etc. Sure the Bible speaks about sin from G to R, but that's after the fact, Lucifer had already sinned in heaven!! That's my opinion or thoughts.

I like what you say.

I see an equivalence between the situation in early Eden and "the man that has everything in life, he has a great wife that does everything you can think of for him and his family. He has 2 maybe 3 or 4 wonderful children, a nice home, 2 cars, awesome job, etc., etc. and he gives it all up by having an affair, or becoming an alcoholic, drug addict, etc., etc."

That is why I ask, is it so hard to understand the motives of the man in your example?

I mean we have all sinned, so we need only ask ourselves, why?

[Geoarrge]

I imagine that it began as innocent curiosity, with the question "Is there an alternative way to run the universe?"  The answer is no, of course, but Lucifer might have grown dissatisfied with that, periodically repeating this question and eventually growing obsessed with finding a "yes" solution, which would translate to rebellion.  The problem, which has to do with the reason we're all here, is that there's no way to prove that the answer is no, except by exhaustive experimentation. 

[Wingnut]

I imagine that it began as innocent curiosity, with the question "Is there an alternative way to run the universe?"  The answer is no, of course, but Lucifer might have grown dissatisfied with that, periodically repeating this question and eventually growing obsessed with finding a "yes" solution, which would translate to rebellion.  The problem, which has to do with the reason we're all here, is that there's no way to prove that the answer is no, except by exhaustive experimentation. 

That is profound.  

Lucifer had no past history of evil to look back upon.  Lucifer would have to accept by faith that no other way could work.

 

[Kevin H]

God is love. Thus he gave us the freedom to choose to love him. The creatures that God had created; angels and beings on other planets, loved God, but it was an immature love. God knew that they needed to grow into a mature love. So the Holy Spirit impressed upon minds things they needed to learn for their love to mature.

Lucifer, being the arch angel was at the forefront in confronting these questions about God. Maybe when leading worship and seeing others praying towards God and him being between them and God, may have wondered what must it be like to be worshiped and to be God. eventually this moved on wondering if God was really God or just a higher more evolved life form. And what if someone sinned, God claims to be both just and merciful, how can God be both? These were good questions. These were important questions. Lucifer could have studied and come to answers and then become professor of evil at New Jerusalem Union College helping the rest of the universe to understand these issues. As more came to understand the chances of someone choosing to sin would have decreased and potentially disappear.

Here we come to Mrs. White's quote above. Lucifer was obsessed with these questions. Normally this obsession would have lead us to search for answers. But sadly Lucifer did not look for answers. Unexplainably, instead of looking for answers, Lucifer began congratulating himself for being so clever that he could think up these questions. His focus changed from wanting to think about those questions and learn about them, he just became wrapped up in himself and the pride in his ability to formulate those big questions. There is no reason why Lucifer could not have focused on the questions and tried to find answers. There is no reason why he only focused on himself and his cleverness and put those questions on the back burner. Thus instead of a mental understanding to leave evil alone, we have instead come to learn by first hand experience.

[Wingnut]

 God claims to be both just and merciful, how can God be both? These were good questions. These were important questions. Lucifer could have studied and come to answers and then become professor of evil at New Jerusalem Union College helping the rest of the universe to understand these issues. 

 

Here we come to Mrs. White's quote above. Lucifer was obsessed with these questions. Normally this obsession would have lead us to search for answers. But sadly Lucifer did not look for answers. Unexplainably, instead of looking for answers, Lucifer began congratulating himself for being so clever that he could think up these questions. His focus changed from wanting to think about those questions and learn about them, he just became wrapped up in himself and the pride in his ability to formulate those big questions. There is no reason why Lucifer could not have focused on the questions and tried to find answers. There is no reason why he only focused on himself and his cleverness and put those questions on the back burner. Thus instead of a mental understanding to leave evil alone, we have instead come to learn by first hand experience.

Lucifer's cleverness seems to have been his undoing.

I can imagine him experimenting with the principle of "survival of the fittest", punching his data into heaven's "Big Blue" computer, and extrapolating a scenario where he would end up as "the fittest".

[Kevin H]

Indeed. If Mrs. White or the Bible writers were alive and in this conversation I think they would really like your paraphrase.

The Holy Spirit gave to Lucifer the important questions that needed to be understood. Lucifer did not even try to understand but elevated himself and indeed came to the theory of naturalistic evolution where God was of the same substance as we are, only a higher life form, and thus by power can be overthrown and by rebellion we can grow to be what God is.

The rebellion was to the law of self sacrificing love. God forced self sacrificing love upon us so that we are so busy caring for and submitting to each other that we don't have time to look out for number 1. And that God does not keep this law but that God is just exalted and therefore is above submission to anyone. Satan is using "Headship Theology" to get this idea into the Adventist church.

To the world he is able to get by with the topic of evolution and having people put down God saying that God really is not God but at best a higher evolved life form. For us he goes to the other extreme with headship theology which destroys God's law by saying that it is not God's character but just something he imposes on us to keep us in our place. Satan gets us to accept his deception in different ways.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Kevin H

[pnattmbtc]

There is no rational reason why anyone would reject God, who is self-sacrificing love personified.  Satan chose to prefer death to life, also not a rational choice.

This is a woefully inadequate answer, but maybe it will spur some discussion; what causes a lot of problem, IMO, is holding to a false view of the future, which leads to unanswerable questions.  That is, if we view the future as something which exists, but just hasn't happened yet, but God can peer into it and see this unalterable thing which is destined to occur, then we must ponder why God would choose to create a being He was certain would sin, when a much better choice would be to choose instead to create a being He was certain would not sin.