Tossed her like a Ragdoll

[GayatfootofCross]

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/10/28/ben-fields-and-many-adults-need-a-refresher-course-in-being-adults/

Ben Fields and Many Adults Need A Refresher Course in Being Adults

October 28, 2015 / johndpav

This is really quite simple.

I’ve heard all sorts of creative justifications for the classroom body slamming of a 16-year old girl by Deputy Ben Fields; criticizing the student for being rude, disrespectful, and uncooperative (as if such things somehow merit what came to her this week.)

And they’re all flat-out wrong.

I’ve been a student pastor for 18 years, and during that time I’ve encountered literally thousands of teenagers; many of them rude, disrespectful and uncooperative, some belligerent, combative, or even violent.

And in those nearly two decades, do you know how many I’ve flipped through the air an onto the floor? Zero.

That’s because I’m a grownup and grownups know that adults don’t respond to disrespectful teenagers (especially those who are not their children) with physical violence—period. That Fields has a gun and a badge or represents authority is irrelevant. Actually come to think of it, if anything it makes him more culpable, his actions less excusable, and his response all the more troubling.

Let’s be clear: even if the young girl was acting immature and disruptive and defiant, this is still not a  matter of two parties equally guilty of wrongdoing.

This is an unarmed, nonviolent, non-threatening teenage girl doing what troubled teenagers sometimes do (testing adults and posturing for her peers) and an armed, muscle-bound man three times her age, assaulting her because he felt his manhood challenged in public—and his manhood came up short.

Adults are adults for a reason. We’ve logged more time on the planet than teenagers. We learned and experienced more than they have. We have a different perspective and we’ve acquired wisdom, and we’re supposed to be smarter and more mature than them by virtue of our advanced age and resume.

Ben Fields isn’t only an adult, but an adult trained in law enforcement. He is by virtue of his title, expected to deescalate tense, violent situations, not to exacerbate them. It’s simply assumed that he is more patient, more restrained, less volatile, and less prone to lose control than other people. At the core of his very position is the diffusing of confrontation and that’s why this was a huge failure, one we sadly see all too often in greater recent police conduct, especially toward people of color.

I don’t care how “bad” this student wanted to show she was with her attitude and her disrespect, Officer Fields doesn’t get to show her how bad he is, by tossing her across the room like an unwanted stuffed animal. If you believe he does, I’m going to question your maturity, your humanity, and your sense of decency. 

I’ve heard reports that this student is recently orphaned, currently in foster care and grieving the loss of her mother. Deputy Fields could not have known this in the heat of the confrontation, but if it is true we should now be moved to show kindness and compassion toward this young girl, not slapping her wrists with finger-wagging sermons and armchair moralizing.

I don’t know Ben Fields. I don’t know why he did what he did.  All I know is what I see here, and what I see is a grownup in a position of authority losing sight of what the right way to handle this situation with a minor was. I’m sure if he could go back and replay the movie, he’d have chosen a different script.

I’m more concerned with our path now, as we should all be seeing more clearly. We should be more objective and sober in our assessment, and more gentle with the hurts of teenagers like this student.

One of the saddest things to surface this week is the alarming number of adults who have determined that this 16-year old somehow “deserved what she got”, many of these folks themselves parents. It’s astounding to me that we can be so cavalier and callous with someone else’s daughter.

Any parent who claims they would be fine with the bodyslamming of their own child by another adult for any reason—is full of it.

That this young woman is not our daughter, shouldn’t make a damn bit of difference. It doesn’t to me.

As I watched her thrown around her classroom, I saw the faces of thousands of teenagers who have crossed my path. I saw the face of my own daughter—and I wept.

This event isn’t a referendum on bad teens or crooked cops (and though it certainly seems apparent many responses to this event) not a teachable moment regarding racism. This is a gut check for all adults. It’s a challenge for us, whether we represent the Law or God or simply ourselves, to respond to adversity and conflict with young people in a way that shows we’ve used our journey well and in a way that teaches them the better path. 

This girl may be immature and disrespectful and prone to bad decisions. (Welcome to every teenager’s life, including yours when you were one.)

She may be a discipline problem, but she isn’t a criminal.

This young girl may be an orphan, but she is our daughter.

Adults: Act your age.

..........................................................................................

more on the police man

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/army-vet-recalls-rough-encounter-sc-dep-ben-fields-article-1.2412418

 

[CoAspen]

Yes, regardless of the circumstances she should not have been handled that way. Would we condone such activity if even a parent was doing that rather than the security person? 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

while the actions of the deputy may have been extreme (I don't know, since I wasn't there; and yes, I've seen various videos clips from different angles), the fact of the matter is that if the student had obeyed the 1st request to leave the room, or the 2nd request to leave the room, or the 3rd request to leave the room, none of this would have happened.

If a student refuses to get out of desk when ordered to leave, how many ways are there to remove him/her in a timely fashion?  

I'd like to hear what others would have done to get the disruptive student out of the classroom, so that the teacher could continue the class, without having to kowtow to disruptive students.

[bonnie]

I have read that she also tried to kick and punch the deputy. Hands on is about the only way to remove a student that refuses to comply. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Yes, there seems to be evidence that she attempted to attack the police officer.

A major question:  Why did the school ask the  police officer to remove her from the room?  Once that request was made, the officer had no other choice.  His official duties required him to remover her.

Reasonable people could conclude that the school should have continued to work with the girl and that the issue had not reached the level where they needed to call the police and request that she be removed.

This does not mean that the police officer is in the clear.  He has been terminated as a police officer for a failure to follow departmental policy as to how he responded to the situation.

But, it is clear that he had no other choice but to remove her from the classroom once he was asked by the school to do so.

[CoAspen]

Lets say the chair 'accidentally' fell over, do we still through the student across the room? Does the security person not have the proper training to handle such a situation? Were they being arrested? Should police/security person still be allowed to 'throw' the person around? That was quite a distance from the chair to where she landed. The error was in not accessing the situation better and getting help, if needed. The size difference between the student and the officer is drastically different, he didn't have any other options?? 

 

[debbym]

It was not a police officer, it was campus security employee.  i thought why not pull her desk from the room into the hallway.  Removing the audience is often helpful to deescalate a situation.

They definitely were not prepared to deal with the situation in a non-violent way.  It is possible the girl has mental emotional issues, and or drug issues, at least behavioral issues, and is this how we deal with troubled kids?  Have they been handling these situations with the same manner?  Was this a rare occurrence?

 

Lots of questions come to mind.

[Gregory Matthews]

Let us be clear:  It was not an untrained campus security employee.  It was a local Deputy Sheriff, who under Federal law was a certified police officer.

The School District had a contract with the Sheriff to supply certified police officers to the school to be immediately available to handle situations that should be handled by the police.  In the parlance of the local Sheriff those officers were assigned to the school with the title of campus security officer.

The officer involved has been terminated from his position as a Deputy Sheriff due to his alleged failure to follow the protocol established by the Sheriff.  Thus, it is clear that the officer is believed to have done something wrong, serious enough to result in his removal from his position as a Deputy Sheriff.

As to whether or not he did anything criminally wrong, that is being investigated by Federal agencies, to include the FBI.  But, at this point in time, he has not be charged with any criminal behavior.

I say again:  Why did the school request that he remove the girl from the room.  At the point of requesting that such be done, the officer had not other choice but to do such.  He did not have the authority to decide whether or not she should be removed.  It was the school that had that authority.  The school asked him to remove her.

There seems to be video evidence to support the idea that the girl did fight back and attack the officer.  When such happens, police officers are trained to take immediate forceful action.  Such a situation is very serious.

To remove the other students:  That was something that the school had the authority to  do.  The officer had not been requested  to remove the other  students. They were in the classroom where they had a right to be.

My understanding is that both the teacher and the school principal thought the situation was serious enough to require that the officer remove the girl.  I do not know. But, I do believe that this should be investigated and  should become a part of a new agreement between the Sheriff  and the school district as to exactly when the police should be involved.

 

 

[bonnie]

51 minutes ago, debbym said:

It was not a police officer, it was campus security employee.  i thought why not pull her desk from the room into the hallway.  Removing the audience is often helpful to deescalate a situation.

They definitely were not prepared to deal with the situation in a non-violent way.  It is possible the girl has mental emotional issues, and or drug issues, at least behavioral issues, and is this how we deal with troubled kids?  Have they been handling these situations with the same manner?  Was this a rare occurrence?

 

Lots of questions come to mind.

To make an assumption that there was any other way than using physical force to get this girl to comply is not necessarily accurate. Is it even reasonable for a PO to stop and analyze the situation as to whether or not the girl has mental or emotional issues or is on drugs? 

It is a out of control teenager,which isn't something new. Defying authority is becoming increasingly common and then complaining when they end up on the short end of the stick. Which is almost a certainty .Usually doesn't end well when you verbally and physically attack a police officer.

Tell me how this girl would have been convinced to comply without force. A violent,kicking,screaming 16 year old can cause quite a bit of damage and Please don't do that really isn't to effective

[Ted]

All law-enforcement officers know the "Continuum of Force".

National Institute of Justice (Federal government)

Wikipedia

The officer acted according to the continuum of force.

The suggestion that the subject's desk be pulled from the room is excellent.  I had the possibility of defusing the situattion.  Law-enforcement officers can have "tunnel vision" is stressful situations, like a pursuit, bar fight, domestic violence (this is the worst) ... and do what they're trained to do: escalate to the next level of force. In this case the officer was at level 3. Levels 1 and 2 failed to gain compliance.

1. Presence and demeanor (Officer presence)

2. Verbal commands

3. Empty-hand control

Empty- hand submission techniques, PPCT - Pressure Point Control Tactics, Control Tactics, techniques --- a level of force that has a low probability of causing soft connective tissue damage or bone fractures. This would include joint manipulation techniques, applying pressure to pressure points and normal application of hand-cuffs.^[12][13][14]

He did not escalate to Level 4.

In a sense, the Sheriff used "excessive force" in his treatment of the officer. He did what was politically expedient instead of supporting his officer. What was probematic is not the officer's response. What is problematic is that it was a white-on-black incident. See? Poitically expedient.   Monday-morning quarterbacks, liberals, lawyers, and courts will probably fight over this for years. Result: white officers are less likely to enforce law on black subjects, out of fear of losing a career. This puts all of us at greater risk. Something to think about.

Ths school called in the officer because they couldn't handle the student.  This also shifts blame from the school. Double win for them.

If this sounds like a cop talking...it is. Long time ago.

[Ted]

What's sad about this is that the issue is over a  cell phone.

Tunnel vision everywhere...

[Jeannieb43]

There's a big difference between an obstreperous student in a classroom, and a crime.   No crime was being committed.  The police officer should not have been called in.   If a school doesn't know better than to use armed police to enforce their classroom teachers' rulings about cell phones, then something needs to change somewhere.   This is not training the youngsters to obey the classroom protocols.  This is misuse of police personnel.

[Gregory Matthews]

Jeannie:

You have raised an important point.  The student was not engaged in criminal behavior at the time the police was called in.

However, in attacking the police officer and/or refusing to obey the lawful  command of the police officer, the student may have committed a crime.

There is a substantial issue over the use of police that the school district needs to deal with.

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

Posted 1 hour ago · Report post

Ths school called in the officer because they couldn't handle the student.  This also shifts blame from the school. Double win for them.

If this sounds like a cop talking...it is. Long time ago.

All law-enforcement officers know the "Continuum of Force".  

Not to mention that today's law enforcement officers are seen more as interfering with freedom of liberty, a natural result of adopting the opinion one can have liberty without personal responsibility.

But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.....James 1

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

[CoAspen]

Does someone have video of the girl attacking the officer? Do we have accurate, verifiable data suggesting she was attacking the officer? In the video posted and others I have not seen the officer being attacked  and certainly not while she was being thrown across the room. If she attacked him after that why would that not be reasonable to defend ones self.

I am reading alot of suggested reasons for the officer to act in the way depicted and I fail to understand that view point. What seems to be suggested is that what ever may have happened before the video, and no one has posted any facts, just surmising, it is understandable for the very large adult to handle the much smaller female in the way he did.

Is this an example of proper adult management of kids? Would this happen in your own home with an unruly, disobedient or even out of control child? Throw them across the room?

I am hearing echoes of "what kind of clothes was she wearing, was she drinking, was she acting suggestive, did she know the person, the she give them a 'come on' did she...etc...etc".  Please tell me we are not blaming the student for being thrown across the room!

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote

 

1)  There are three (3) videos taken by students that have been released.  One shows the girl attempting to hit the officer before she was "thrown across the room."  Further, a statement by one of the students has been released that supports the idea that she attacked him early on.

2)  No, it is not reasonable for one to "defend" against a lawful command of a police officer.  The lawful command of the police officer, as supported by the evidence, is that she was commanded to:  a) Get up from her chair.   'b) To leave the room with the officer.  To fail to obey the lawful command of a police officer is a crime and potentially subjects the person to a lawful arrest.  Folks, get real, to attack a police officer is dumb and has potential major consequences.

3) Proper management of children:  That was the function of  the school.  Why did the school request the services of a police officer. 

4) The clothes she was wearing and her sexuality have no bearing on this situation, from the standpoint of the police action.  Those issues are those of the educational institution, the school.

NOTE:  I am not attempting to justify everything that the officer did.  As I understand it, he has been fired for failing to follow official protocol.  But, I am attempting to put this in perspective.  You disregard the commands of a police officer, acting in official capacity, at peril which may extend to your life.   This is true in any country.  I am reminded of a soldier in my unit who, in another country, was travelling with three (3) passengers in an automobile.  A police officer standing on the street, pointed to the car and motioned for the car to pull over to the side of the road  (I have been in more than one country where this was the practice.)  The driver laughed and thought that he could outrun the officer who was on foot.  The officer pulled his pistol and fired once.   It hit the driver in the head.  He died.

 

 

[Naomi]

Amazing ... if I had attempted to fight a police, if I had created such an issue in school that one had to be called, being bounced across the room would have been minor compared to what I would have got when I got home!!!

When are we going to start teaching our kids respect ... respect for the rules at school and respect for our law enforcement community. Respect for each other.   16 years old is old enough to know the difference from right and wrong.  If the girl had psychological issues she should have been in a special school.   

Important lesson which our kids need to be taught early in life:  You fight with a police officer, you are going to loose!!! 

The videos, especially one, show her making the first physically aggressive move.  I believe that constitutes a crime.  It is said that the Sheriff did not stand behind his deputy.  Any boss (manager) who does not support his personnel IMHO is suspect of being a weak manager.  

[Liz]

What I think is odd about this whole situation is that it supposedly started over the girl and her phone, yet, when the officer arrived just about every student whipped out their phone and started the video. Maybe they should have a policy of no phones in school, but then they wouldn't have video of this incident and it would be he said/she said. Maybe they should have video camera's in every classroom? What we are getting is a whole generation of people who don't respect authority, and a whole generation of adults who don't know how to deal with belligerent teens. The young girl should have respected her teacher and herself and put her phone away when class started. 

P.S.  Yes, Coa, I am blaming her, had she put her phone away when class started, nothing would have happened, had she put her phone away when teacher asked her too, nothing would have happened, had she gotten up and politely followed the officer out of the room, nothing else would have happened. But for HER actions, SHE escalated the problem which SHE created in the first place. Did she deserve to be tossed across the room? No, and I'm not saying she did deserve that, but she created this whole problem, the blame is squarely on her shoulders.

[lazarus]

"One of the saddest things to surface this week is the alarming number of adults who have determined that this 16-year old somehow “deserved what she got”, many of these folks themselves parents. It’s astounding to me that we can be so cavalier and callous with someone else’s daughter."

I'm not astounded however, for reasons that there is no point discussing

[Gregory Matthews]

To say that the position of many is that she deserved what she  got goes beyond what has been said.

 

 

[lazarus]

14 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

To say that the position of many is that she deserved what she  got goes beyond what has been said.

? The comment in quotes is from the OP. I agree with it. It is what I have seen and heard. Your experience is obviously different. 

Thankfully the officer was fired and hopefully he will be charged.

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K.,  If your reference was to the general public, I will not disagree with you.  Much of the public has suggested that she got what she deserved.

I thought that your reference was to recent posts in this thread, perhaps (?) to include me.  My comment was to that group.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote

Girls of color, especially black girls, "face much harsher school discipline than their white peers but are excluded from current efforts to address the school-to-prison pipeline,"  http://abcnews.go.com/US/violent-sc-arrest-reflects-black-girls-disproportionately-disciplined/story?id=34824293

 

When I first read the news report, there was just a still photo of the deputy and girl, who was mostly hidden.  In my mind's eye, I assumed she was white.   Not sure why — maybe due to the fact that the "mouth-iest" girls I've dealt with were white....  But I don't think any race has the corner market on teenage brattiness.

[GayatfootofCross]

I believe that thru out the ages in every culture.. People try to get to know their God. Some Gods are addictions or loved ones of even strangers that are put on a pedestal. Some Gods are their stomachs or even egos. Some Gods are even the Tree of Knowledge... Priding themselves on knowing good and evil.

As Christians we try to know God. Some lean toward David(psalms)  and Moses( Law) and Ezekiel (prophesy). Paul is very Clear. Jesus is the perfect reflection of God. Jesus says Himself He is GOD and seeing Him we do see the Father. Everything seen before in the O.T. are shadows of God. A silhouette without anything inside. No substance.

Jacob wrestled with God. Isaiah saw a bit of Glory and almost shut down. Abraham dined with Him.Moses saw God from behind. But Jesus said they would have rejoiced to see HIM! None saw HIM Fully.

The Pharisees saw God partying with sinners and didn't even know it. Uhh.. cause He was partying with the Sinners. He was speaking out for the Marginalized. the Pharisees were offended.

There are tons of verses regarding mercy and help for the poor and fatherless and widows (that is GOD). There are tons of stories of Forgiveness and the healing effects. There are Christ examples of death and Resurrection and what was lost is now found.

Sometimes it alludes us cause they are mixed in with savagery and retribution ..thinking this must be GOD too!

Do we see God coming into the Garden(after we done wrong) and we hide thinking He is gonna get us or them?? Or do we see GOD coming into the Garden(after we done wrong again) and Say "here I am!" cause We know HIM well enough  that HE is to tell us the Good News for us and them?

God walking on earth gave us the greatest PICTURE of GOD. Not calling down fire on Samaria or even sending a bear to kill little children. But a God who washes the Feet of his Enemies and Forgiving the very people murdering HIM.

Every post by every single person we see here represents (at least at that moment) where people are in their image of GOD. What This God must look like swirling or twirling in their heads. Sometimes echo the voice of their parents of GOD that are never called into true question or reflection? Ministers and Teachers storied their ideas of GOD? Calamities and disasters solidifying our haunts of GOD?

Reading The Bible with these perceptions can dim or even black out what a Great GOD we have. And conversely we show up here and talk about our God and how things should be handled.

No Body here has the perfect Picture of HIM. I believe the latter rain will fall on those that see HIM as He is. The Beautiful Altogether Lovely. This deepens our affections for HIm and that softens the heart to the point we are  Open enough to finally for evermore not let sin blot out Our UNDERSTANDING OF HIM. To Stand without the MEDIATOR cause we finally figured out We don't Need One anymore.The veil in the Sanctuary has been ripped away and we See GOD On His Throne High and Lifted up and light shining into every darkpart and He is not running from it ..but all over us!

We must always go to the PIC of GOD seen in JESUS. He is the Final Word!

[CoAspen]

Quote

Is this an example of proper adult management of kids? Would this happen in your own home with an unruly, disobedient or even out of control child? Throw them across the room?

The question I continue to ask, with no answer except to say it was all her fault. I doubt anyone here would treat their own child that way so why should someone else be allowed to do so? What is being missed is the proper methods of handling such a situation. The officer is to blame for his being fired. The student deserves to be blamed for disobedience but not the improper treatment.

By the way, GM, I suggested was, if the student tried to defend them-self after being thrown across the room, not before, would it not be understandable.

What is also being missed is the very real possibility of being injured when thrown across the room, would people still blame her then? What if her neck had been broken?

I'm would be willing to bet that some change in policies and procedures will be looked into and hopefully made.

We are very quick to 'fix' blame with out any real facts, only video and media reporting, tis the human condition! We includes myself.