Shane

Hanukkah

I don't know how many here celebrate Hanukkah but this is the first year I have looked into it.  I never knew anything about it before and always assumed it was a Jewish holiday that was done away with at the cross.  It wasn't until this year, during Hanukkah, that one of our church members shared with church about Hanukkah that I started reading about it and learning more.  My wife and I have been talking about it and plan to start celebrating it next year.  However since we are Christians, I don't want to celebrate the same as the Jews do.

Hanukkah is about celebrating the restoration of the temple which happened after the Jews refused to compromise.  The high priest was killed when he refused to eat pork.  So a big emphasis during Hanukkah is uncompromising loyalty to God.  I would like to see some fun ideas on how Hanukkah can be celebrated in an Adventist way and yet keeping with the traditional, Jewish spirit of the festival.

dgrimm60, Kevin H and Stan like this

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I thought Hanukkah was about the Maccabees cleansing the temple, after which the Menorah was to be re-lit, but only a small jar of dedicated oil was available.  The miracle was that the oil lasted for 8 days, leading to the 8 days of Hanukkah...

One way to celebrate would be as the Jewish population does -- light a candle each day of the Hanukkah season.  Maybe include a reading of one of the many miracles in the scriptures each day, or recounting a miracle in our own lives...

 

Kevin H, The Wanderer, phkrause and 1 other like this

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Yes Hanukkah is more about the miracle of the oil, than anything else. The emphasis for me is on the "Miracle" it self. And I believe that as "spiritual Jews" we can also celebrate this Jewish Holiday as well. The desecration of the Temple itself had to do more with the pig than anything else, but the Jews celebrate Hanukkah based on the miracle of the oil lasting for eight days, when they only had enough for one day.

Here's a link to some facts about Chanukah: http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/134/jewish/Chanukah-Hanukkah.htm

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Lighting the candles is a must, I think.  Reading or highlighting a miracle from Scripture is a great idea, Pam.  Thanks.

There is a lot to the story of Hanukkah and it is not all appropriate for young children.  The Jewish sites I have been reading to talk about Hanukkah's meaning being that of uncompromising loyalty which is what led to Maccabees successful rebellion.  Given the Adventists' application of the sanctuary doctrine, and the role it plays in our denomination's beliefs, it would be neat to somehow incorporate that into a Hanukkah celebration.

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I'm sorry I did not see this post earlier although I always post in other threads here this time of year. Shane told the beginning of the story and Pam told the end of the story. The emphases on the 8 days of light from one day's worth of oil was a way to deal with the Romans who would not want the emphases on the liberation. This is a promise that God will not save us from persecution and problems that we have on this earth, but he will suffer with us and see us through. It is definitely a message for when we face the persecution of last day events, as well as Satan's practices for the last days such as the fall of Jerusalem, the French Revolution and Nazism.

Hanukkah only became a Bible feast because of John 10 and 11.

In John we have 7 "I AM" sayings. While they do not follow a set order, there are some set elements: There is a temple feast, Jesus saying something (either in public or private) connected to the feast, some crisis related to what Jesus was saying about the feast and Jesus giving an "I AM" saying again dealing with the issue related to the feast and a sign resolving the problem.

We have 3 for Passover, at 3 different locations so over 3 different years. We have another 3 over the feast of tabernacles (they appear to have all been the same year, however since all 3 happened in Jerusalem they MIGHT have happened over 2 or 3 years and just telescoped together, or they could have happened in the same year), and one for Hanukkah.

Jesus' application of Hanukkah is that just as God was able to raise up the true worship despite it having been dead, so God will raise up the true worshipers. The crisis was Lazarus dying because Jesus was not there, Jesus said "I am the resurrection and the life" and raised him.

I wish that we would include Hanukkah in our Thanksgiving-Christmas-New Year celebration. It is as if Jesus prophetically saw that family would be very important during this time of year. And the pain of an empty space around the holiday table. Jesus gave a sermon for this season for those who have Christmas tears.

As Christians and especially Seventh-day Adventists we have these two additional things to add to the Hanukkah celebration: Last day events, and the joy of family and looking forward towards the resurrection. The Christmas season has room for Santa, Rudolf, Frosty, surely we can add to it Lazarus and our families and the blessed hope of the resurrection and reunion with our lost loved ones. While others want to use this season as a time not to celebrate, here we have reason to celebrate family and the hope of the resurrection.

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Hanukkah is Hebrew for "dedication."  Hanukkah is the Feast of Re-dedication.  The Temple was ceremonially cleansed from the desecration. 

The 8 days of ceremonial cleansing, comes from the Torah command:  Exodus 29:37.    In the days of Hezekiah the consecration of the House also took seven days, following its desecration by idolatry (2 Chron. 29:17).   Priestly ministry for the people began anew - on the 8th day.  Priests were also consecrated for 7 days, and could then offer sacrifice for the people on the 8th day.

Antiochus Theos Epiphanes ("Antiochus, the visible god") was a cruel demon-possessed madman.  The stories of torture and persecution from his attempted assimilation of the Jews into Greek culture, will give you nightmares.  If any male infant was found circumcised, it's body was hung from the mother's neck and she was thrown from the Temple, or from the city call.  Man were tortured for refusing to eat the flesh of a sacrificed pig.  In house to house searches, if a family was found to be observing the Sabbath, or observing Torah dietary law, or any scrolls found, the whole family was put to death - painfully.  Hebrews mentions "others were tortured, not accepting deliverance".

Kinda reminds me of the tortures inflicted by ISIS. 

Antiochus set up an image of Zeus (the supreme deity of the Greek pantheon, also called Jupiter by the Romans) on the alter in the Temple courtyard.  It bore the face of Antiochus.  On the birthday of Zeus (Dec 25th) Antiochus offered a pig on the alter and sprinkled its blood in the Holy of Holies.  He poured the pig broth over the holy scrolls before cutting them into pieces and burning them.  After that the Temple was converted into a Temple of Zeus and only pigs were allowed for sacrifice. 

It's no surprise that many regard Antiochus as the Antichrist. 

Let me recommend a book.  "The Feasts of the LORD" by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal, is the best introduction to the Feasts that I have come across. 

 

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Celebrated my first Hanukkah this year. The problem is that Hanukkah celebrates the fulfillment of the prophecy of 2300 days and nights in Daniel 8. If you run 1st and 2nd Maccabees against Daniel 8, it matches perfectly. A bummer if you believe in 1844

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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Guest said:

Celebrated my first Hanukkah this year. The problem is that Hanukkah celebrates the fulfillment of the prophecy of 2300 days and nights in Daniel 8. If you run 1st and 2nd Maccabees against Daniel 8, it matches perfectly. A bummer if you believe in 1844

I have read in a number of commentaries in the  1970s and the 1980s that the 2300 days nor the 1150 days fit exactly. The conservative commentaries don't give any more information that that neither fits too well but sort of fit but that it must be talking about the Antiochus, and the liberal commentaries point out that they don't fit but that they don't expect it to fit since the 2300 days was only wishful thinking. Please tell me what information do you have that none of these commentaries; including the Anchor Bible and Interpreters Bible and New International Commentaries on the Old Testament, do not have? Sounds to me that your words are merely wishful thinking as well. What a bummer...

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Holy, holy Anchor Bible and International Commentarie. I admit I have no clue what it is that I know that they don't know, nor do I know or care who or what they are. Back to topic. Have you had a chance to run Daniel 8 by the Maccabees chronicles yet?

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I think it's quite telling that the 1844 movement came about within a few decades after the Hanukkah story was removed from KJV. Without it, you have to come up with all sorts of strange ideas about Daniel 8

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On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 8:51 PM, Guest Guest said:

Holy, holy Anchor Bible and International Commentarie. I admit I have no clue what it is that I know that they don't know, nor do I know or care who or what they are. Back to topic. Have you had a chance to run Daniel 8 by the Maccabees chronicles yet?

Just saw your post. In college we were required to do a paper running the book of Daniel (including Daniel 8) by the Maccabees Chronicles. We needed to write a paper getting more points by making Daniel fit the Maccabees the most convincing. Then the other paper was to show the problems with the Maccabees interpretation. Granted this was 36 years ago, but a couple of the issues is that Antiochus came from the opposite direction of the little horn. Neither 2300 days nor 1250 days fit (the conservative commentaries don't mention that fact they pass over it. The liberal commentaries were quick to point that out and said that the days given in Daniel 8:14 was just wishful thinking.) The book of Daniel, while not showing the knowledge of Babylon that Daniel himself would have had, it does show more knowledge than would have been known in the days of Antiochus. It shows the knowledge that would have been held in the early days of the Persian empire. This fact has been making more modern scholars (including those of different faiths) say that Daniel appears much earlier than the Maccabees, that it was probably written by Daniel's disciples soon after Daniel died, and that they were looking for the restored Davidic monarchy. When the restoration of the house of David did not work out, the book lost favor. When they were persecuted by Antiochus they pulled the book out, blew off the dust and applied it to what they were going through and added a few verses here and there.

Also, with the argument over 2300 days or 1250 days, people did not know which year was the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar, and in the 1800s scholars said that there was no such person as Belshazzar. We now know that they were wrong, that Belshazzar was indeed a historical figure. And we know when his third year was. 1250 days from the third year of Belshazzar was business as usual. 2300 days from the third year of Belshazzar; depending on which day of the year it was given (which the text does not say) but it brings us to either Medio- Persia breathing down the neck of Babylon, Belshazzar's feast/conquest of Babylon and the early days of the rule of Medio-Persia.

The scribe Ezra worked at making the writings that developed from the time of Moses into the Pentateuch. By the time of the Maccabees they started thinking that there was a closer connection between Leviticus and Deuteronomy (that we still have today) than there actually was before Ezra. Daniel is more sectarian of the Deuteronomic vs. Levitical thought than we would find in the time of Antiochus.

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Why would a group of SDA's wish to participate in a festival that celebrates the slaughter of those that occupied the temple?  If Desmond Doss is upheld for refusing to kill people, why then on the other hand immortalise in a festival those that do? Did God really need the Maccabees to kill people to retake and to cleanse the temple? 

 

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8 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Why would a group of SDA's wish to participate in a festival that celebrates the slaughter of those that occupied the temple?  If Desmond Doss is upheld for refusing to kill people, why then on the other hand immortalise in a festival those that do? Did God really need the Maccabees to kill people to retake and to cleanse the temple? 

 

The God of the Bible doesn't seem to be adverse to slaughtering people.  A number of stories come to mind where he instructed the Israelites to decimate populations.  The story of the flood and the crossing of the Red Sea have a similar theme, except God himself does the killing.  The return of Jesus is also expected to involve the large-scale death of people.

It looks like the rededication of the Temple was necessary before Messiah could come to live a sinless life according to God's Law of Moses.  Perhaps God had a different plan for restoring the Temple, but when you read the stories of the Maccabees, the evidence seems to indicate that God was aiding them in battle.  Since Jesus was at the Temple during Hanukkah at the very location that was the center of the celebration (John 10:22), and since the disciples of Jesus applied the prophecy, "Zeal for your house will consume me" to Jesus (John 2:17 and Psalm 69:9), it seems that modern followers of Jesus would have that same zeal for the Temple that was part of the character of Jesus and we would want to celebrate the rededication of the Temple.

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Why would christian wish to have 'zeal' for what is now an islamic mosque? The curtain was torn in two from top to bottom. The temple destroyed after Jerusalem was beseiged and the Jews who wanted to fight the Romans in the same way as the Maccabees turned to cannibalism and their own desecration of the temple and their own religion. 

It is interesting that not only was the temple destroyed but that it was given by God to the religion of Islam and is now an Islamic holy site. People can go and participate in the religion of Islam there and honour the site sacred to Muhummad which speaks volumes about what God thinks of the holiness of the site today.

 

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Jesus drove the moneychangers from the Temple less than a week before the veil of the Temple was torn.  Why would Jesus bother to do that?

I don't think it's valid to make the kind of assumptions about the Temple that Christians have been making since they quit living as Jesus lived.  There's more in the Bible about the Temple than what is taught in most churches.

The throne of David has been vacant much longer than the Temple has been missing from the Temple mount, yet we are told that Jesus will be given the throne of David.

          “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
          and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.
” (Luke 1:32-33) 

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Guests said as I have  quoted below:

After responding in that rude manner, how do you expect anyone to take your seriously enough to   either read or respond to you?

My advice:  If you  wish to dialogue with people, be a bit more civil.

Quote

Holy, holy Anchor Bible and International Commentarie. I admit I have no clue what it is that I know that they don't know, nor do I know or care who or what they are. Back to topic. Have you had a chance to run Daniel 8 by the Maccabees chronicles yet?

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On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 9:12 AM, Sojourner said:

Why would a group of SDA's wish to participate in a festival that celebrates the slaughter of those that occupied the temple?  If Desmond Doss is upheld for refusing to kill people, why then on the other hand immortalise in a festival those that do? Did God really need the Maccabees to kill people to retake and to cleanse the temple? 

 

Actually,  because Jesus participated in the festival and tied his greatest miracle to this festival. Also, it shows that God is with us in persecution. There are times in the Bible when God told his people to resist, and other times to submit and trust in "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord" God worked with the resistance back then but wants us to submit and trust in "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord" for the persecution we are going to face.

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'Thou shalt not murder' - unless it's for Allah, then it is acceptable..? 

 

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3 hours ago, Sojourner said:

'Thou shalt not murder' - unless it's for Allah, then it is acceptable..? 

 

Murdering is not the same as killing in battle.  Also, according to the Bible, justice sometimes requires killing those who have chosen to participate in evil.

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On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 6:27 AM, Sojourner said:

'Thou shalt not murder' - unless it's for Allah, then it is acceptable..? 

 

So how do you explain Jesus' celebration of the feast?

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