Joel Osteen

[Gregory Matthews]

Recently the National Geographic has produced a TV series, The Search For God, with Morgan Freeman, which I have taped for later viewing.  This morning I viewed the segment, Who is God?  It had a short clip with Joel Osteen, which I found to be interesting.

Joel Osteen is a very popular preacher whom many SDA's find to be attractive.  He is the Sr. pastor of a very large congregation in Texas.   One can view them 24 hours a day, every day of the year.  He is on  satellite radio.  In his personal life he has not been accused of financial wrong doing and he has not been accused of dalliances with women to whom he was not married.

In the clip that I watched today, I found a couple of his comments to be of interest as they relate to his Sunday services:

1) One of his intents is to give the 10,000 or so who attend his church  something that will be of immediate help to them in getting t[hem through the day.  For this reason, he does not preach what many would call doctrine.

2) In addition, he intends to give people faith that Christ can impower them and give them the strength to meet the whatever comes to them during the day.

I will agree that such is both important and of value.  Further, I will say that such is a first step in the Christian life and it is what many people need who have missed out in this during their Christian life.  But, I will add to the above that there are steps in the Christian life that go beyond the above.  Christian growth does not stop with what is above,  Rather the above should be a beginning of growth in one's walk with Christ.

I do not criticize Joel for not going beyond what he has stated he is doing.  We are not indebted to only one human for our nurture in the Christian life.  Rather we can advance as one leads us on founded on what had gone before.  The Bible speaks to this sin mentioning John the Baptist who was to prepare for the coming of the Christ.  It may be that Joel can do a preparatory work that can lay the foundation for the work that others will do.  But, he is not the end of ones Christian growth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LynnDel]

Maybe that's the problem I have with Osteen. I've had enough milk. I want meat.

[Gail]

Every pastor has a different style. But milk or meat, it should at least be food. And the living water of Jesus.

[Gerr]

If you want meat, you'll be sorely disappointed.  Consider him a spiritual obstetrician like Billy Graham was.  Hopefully there will be some spiritual pediatrician who will take care and nurture the baby, and then later an adult spiritual

doc to feed them mature food.  The tragedy would be if his members are not encouraged to "go on to maturity."

[LynnDel]

Milk may be food, but I think I'm developing a lactose intolerance when it comes to this preacher. I do hope that those who love listening to him are "hooked" into looking deeper for all that God has for us.

[phkrause]

I think that's true of all pastors, evangelists, etc.

[CoAspen]

Quote

 We are not indebted to only one human for our nurture in the Christian life. 

An important observation, each has their appointed task. Should we ask each individual to give us the full meal? What is our responsibility?

[Robert]

Never mind

 

[Gail]

In Revalation 22:17 we are invited by the Spirit and the bride to come and drink of the water of life freely. He that hears is also supposed to invite to come and drink, too. Part of our role as believers is to invite others to Christ, not merely to be fed ourselves but to bring others to Him for this life-giving properties. 

As a shepherd, pastors are supposed to feed the lambs. Or at least that is what Peter was told to do. 

What pricks my heart these days are the words of warning to false shepherds, teachers and leaders. There is not a lot of mercy given to a leader who is feeding his people garbage, Biblically-speaking. So we need to be discerning.

[Gail]

30 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

An important observation, each has their appointed task. Should we ask each individual to give us the full meal? What is our responsibility?

Our responsibility is to come to Jesus, to take up our cross and follow Him. What that that means to you, I can't say. But God is able to speak to us in various ways. We need not depend totally on leaders. We shouldn't, actually, or should we?

[phkrause]

1 hour ago, Gail said:

We shouldn't, actually, or should we?

We do need someone to lead us in the right direction! Than the next step is to study it for ourselves and than, probably lead some else in the right direction!! "Passing it forward," as the saying goes.

[Aliensanctuary]

We might be better off if we have Christ as our teacher, not a man who says, "God wants you to be rich."

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

perhaps there are more people in the world who need "milk," rather than "meat"...

In a congregation, there will be a mixture of where people are in their spiritual growth.  How does a preacher, such as Joel Osteen, minister to all of them?  The ones that need "milk" would be lost with the deliverance of "meat."  Yet the ones who cherish "meat" complain about the "milk."  

I think CoA has a good point.  I think "milk" should always be a part of the preacher's service, but the onus is on the "meat-lovers" to take what they find and use it for their spiritual growth.  They should be sufficiently able to scour for most of their own "meat."  There are lots of places to find it — including C/A.

When I first came back to the Message, if I had thought that there were some in the church who trivialized and turned up their noses at the "milk" I loved, not only would I have been crestfallen, I would have felt like they didn't want to associate with me because they were somehow on a "higher level"....

[Gail]

Yep! I should hope that the meat eaters are better equipped to do that extra study than the milk drinkers.

I have attended a congregation where the sermons perhaps had one Bible verse, and sometimes none at all. I understand what the pastor was trying to do, bring authencity to his congregation. But people were beginning to leave, complaining that the congregation was not being fed, its members were not being prepared to meet the Lord, etc. Stories are nice and we can identify with them, but there is something about Jesus' words that comforts the heart and strengthens a soul for the big things of life. There is a reason that thousands came from miles around to listen to Him talk.

Milk is good, and meat is good. Paul used milk for a time in the Corinthian church because he judged that the believers were unable for a while to bear anything stronger. But look at his reason why in 1Cor 3:2,3. He says they were carnally-minded still. So there is a place for the milk. When I get off track, maybe carnally-minded, too, I often revert back to the basics to remind myself of them. But he worked his way into meatier subjects. I don't know if Mr Osteen is able to change his style, being on TV and all.

[Gail]

4 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

I think CoA has a good point.  I think "milk" should always be a part of the preacher's service, but the onus is on the "meat-lovers" to take what they find and use it for their spiritual growth.  They should be sufficiently able to scour for most of their own "meat."  There are lots of places to find it — including C/A.

When I first came back to the Message, if I had thought that there were some in the church who trivialized and turned up their noses at the "milk" I loved, not only would I have been crestfallen, I would have felt like they didn't want to associate with me because they were somehow on a "higher level"....

I like what you said here. Some people have a knack for being able to adapt to either. I hope you have found your comfort spot!

[Martn]

22 hours ago, Gail said:

In Revalation 22:17

the Spirit and the bride [say] come and drink of the water of life freely

Here's some meat to chew.

The Spirit (God) and the Bride (God's people) are asking others to come and drink the water of eternal life --freely.

This is in the earth made new. (22:1-5)

Who, in the earth made new --not yet among God's people (the Bride)-- could there be left remaining to be saved?

[Gregory Matthews]

There is an issue that affects the answer:  What is the congregational purpose for the Sabbath morning service?

If the purpose is to feed the saints, then you  go more in depth and deal with more subjects that are not central and  on which people may differ.

If the purpose is evangelism, then you feed milk, and you expect to see non-members attend.  In this case, you have some other manner in providing meat to the saints.

If I were in congregational ministry, I would see to have my Sabbath mornings filled with non-members, and I would leave the meat to other mods.

 

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

On 5/21/2016 at 2:26 PM, Gail said:

In Revalation 22:17 we are invited by the Spirit and the bride to come and drink of the water of life freely. He that hears is also supposed to invite to come and drink, too. Part of our role as believers is to invite others to Christ, not merely to be fed ourselves but to bring others to Him for this life-giving properties. 

As a shepherd, pastors are supposed to feed the lambs. Or at least that is what Peter was told to do. 

What pricks my heart these days are the words of warning to false shepherds, teachers and leaders. There is not a lot of mercy given to a leader who is feeding his people garbage, Biblically-speaking. So we need to be discerning.

…4“Tell us, when will all these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?” 5Jesus began by telling them, “See to it that no one deceives you. 6Many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many.…Mark 13

If there will be false Christs, would it not stand to reason there will be many false undershepherds? That seems to me to be why the necessity to feed often on the Bread of Life.

13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. 14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.…John 16

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Gregory Matthews]

Feeding the milk of a loving Christ who wants to be involved in our lives, even if given to non-members on Sabbath morning is  never garbage.

 

[Aliensanctuary]

Milk or meat, the message should always be, "What must I do to be saved?" 

Worldly churches of today dispense lukewarm "milk". The real "meat" of the Kingdom was consumed back in the days of Moses when all Israel assembled to hear the reading of the Law.

[Kevin H]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 2:48 PM, LynnDel said:

Maybe that's the problem I have with Osteen. I've had enough milk. I want meat.

I'm going to make a lot of people mad here but that is how I feel about Chuck Swindall, who many like and I don't criticize them for it, but there is much meatier sources out there.

[CoAspen]

Some people need brain surgery, some need a broken arm fixed, while others may need only a bandaid. At different points in life's experience we have different needs and may experience everything from bandaids to brain surgery.

To the person needing a bandaid do you also include planning for brain surgery?

[CoAspen]

Quote

Milk or meat, the message should always be, "What must I do to be saved?" 

Worldly churches of today dispense lukewarm "milk".

Hmmm...makes a judgement, or in the least an opinion, of others without verification.

[TrevorL]

Greetings Greg and others,

On ‎21‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 1:01 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

I found a couple of his comments to be of interest as they relate to his Sunday services:

1) One of his intents is to give the 10,000 or so who attend his church  something that will be of immediate help to them in getting t[hem through the day.  For this reason, he does not preach what many would call doctrine.

2) In addition, he intends to give people faith that Christ can impower them and give them the strength to meet the whatever comes to them during the day.

 

I have only watched Joel on TV once, some time ago now and even then only part of his 30 minute program as broadcast in Australia. Thus I am only speaking about my first impression but your assessment seems to match what I heard. Yes he had a very big attendance, possibly in a baseball stadium or similar. And yes, he did seem to encourage people. I was suspicious that he was preaching some form of prosperity doctrine, but not sure.

 

I was a little disturbed by the example he used, as he mentioned that when David came to Nob he enquired for some form of weapon and received Goliath’s sword. The impression that Joel gave is that here was an example of God providing for David’s need in a difficult situation. Contrary to Joel’s assessment I believe rather that this was one of David’s greatest mistakes as he fled from Saul. A fuller consideration of the subsequent events and Psalm 34 reveal this. The unique development of true discipleship as it worked out in these circumstances of David could be different to that preached by Joel and the following that Joel gathers to him in that stadium and on TV.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote

Hmmm...makes a judgement, or in the least an opinion, of others without verification.

Opinion based on attendance.