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8. Ellen White's writings are unavailable, "locked away in a vault."

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8. Ellen White's writings are unavailable, "locked away in a vault."

Answer: All of Ellen White's published writings are available on CD-ROM and on the Internet (http://www.WhiteEstate.org). All of her unpublished materials are currently available at the main office of the White Estate at the General Conference in Silver Spring, Maryland; at three branch offices located in the United States: Andrews University, Loma Linda University, and Oakwood College; as well as at eleven Research Centers operated throughout the world. The vault provides fire protection and security for the original documents.

Resources: Herbert E. Douglass, Messenger of the Lord, 1998, pp. 483-484.

Samellasogs, Charlessr, Vitezhish and 8 others like this

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How about something that has been changed from how she originally wrote it and only the heavily edited version is available on the official website? Assuming she is God's prophet to His remnant people, should the SDA church (or anyone else) be changing what she wrote?

Shalom

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For instance?

You want to know what was changed before you answer? I wouldn't think it would matter what book it was. If what she wrote was changed significantly and she is a prophet of God I would think it would be wrong. Yes or no?

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How about something that has been changed from how she originally wrote it and only the heavily edited version is available on the official website? Assuming she is God's prophet to His remnant people, should the SDA church (or anyone else) be changing what she wrote?

Shalom

I've seen the original documents at Andrews. Yes, the wording has been changed many times. You can see how Ellen White herself crossed words out and then crossed the new words out. Over and over she reconsidered her words. But it was her who made the changes.

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Sorry, I thought it would be a given that I meant changed by someone other than her. I will remember to be more precise.

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Sorry if I misunderstood. But this issue of her changing her words has been an issue with some who believe that her inspiration should have been correct the first time and not needing editing.

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I've seen the original documents at Andrews. Yes, the wording has been changed many times. You can see how Ellen White herself crossed words out and then crossed the new words out. Over and over she reconsidered her words. But it was her who made the changes.

Yes, true. Of course she made changes, and sometimes her helpers made editing changes, but Ellen White always approved those changes before it went to print. She would sign off on the changes.

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Ugh. Did you think I disagreed with this or something. I am just curious as to why you quoted me?

That's just what I said. Am I hearing myself?

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Originally Posted By: John317
For instance?

You want to know what was changed before you answer? I wouldn't think it would matter what book it was. If what she wrote was changed significantly and she is a prophet of God I would think it would be wrong. Yes or no?

I didn't say it didn't matter. I am simply asking what your evidence is that this took place. I'm aware of allegations and am wondering if you are thinking of one of those.

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Originally Posted By: Haldog

You want to know what was changed before you answer? I wouldn't think it would matter what book it was. If what she wrote was changed significantly and she is a prophet of God I would think it would be wrong. Yes or no?

I didn't say it didn't matter. I am simply asking what your evidence is that this took place. I'm aware of allegations and am wondering if you are thinking of one of those.

Didn't say I had evidence. Would it be right or wrong if it were to happen? Personally I think it is wrong to change the words of a prophet of God.

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Didn't say I had evidence. Would it be right or wrong if it were to happen? Personally I think it is wrong to change the words of a prophet of God.

You began by saying, "How about something that has been changed from how she originally wrote it and only the heavily edited version is available on the official website?"

Did you have any particular writing in mind?

As far as any changes being made are concerned, it depends on the kind of changes you're talking about. There are some of her writings that have been simplified. For instance, there are the books, The Messiah, a simplified version of Desire of Ages; and then there's Steps to Jesus, a simplified version of Steps to Christ. Similar rewrites have been done of some of her other writings.

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Ahh, I get it, kinda like a paraphrase of the bible you're saying. I wonder why God didn't do the paraphrasing Himself though?

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Mrs. White made it clear enough, whether reading "Bible" or "Desire of Ages," it is the ideas which are inspired, not the words.

She was a prolific reader, and she read very rapidly. She had help with editing. James helped her at first. Later, she hired others to help her. She used advice from her helpers and friends, and she used sources, other tracts and books which she recommended to others. She never tried to hide her use of sources. She used words which expressed the inspired ideas. Suggestions which improved, and in some cases made statements less controversial, were adopted by her. It is my understanding that all the changes which were made before her death, were approved by her.

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Mrs. White made it clear enough, whether reading "Bible" or "Desire of Ages," it is the ideas which are inspired, not the words.

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Well, the volume of answers to my original question has been underwhelming shofar so I will attempt to an answer from ellen herself.

"My labors would be naught should I preach another gospel. That which I have written is what the Lord has bidden me write. I have not been instructed to change that which I have sent out.'"

If she hasn't been instructed to change them, what gives me or anyone else the right to do so?

I'm sure there are more and I will post them as I find them.

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What changes are you talking about? Give examples.

The Ellen White Estate does have the right to make certain kinds of changes in her writings. Ellen White gave them that right in her will.

Of the things Ellen G. White wrote and sent out, what has been changed? Please be specific.

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Originally Posted By: oldsailor29
Mrs. White made it clear enough, whether reading "Bible" or "Desire of Ages," it is the ideas which are inspired, not the words.

I reject that in the name of Jesus! The Words of the bible are not inspired? That is blasphemy sailor. You're missing the whole "jot or tittle" thing I'm thinking.

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29
She was a prolific reader, and she read very rapidly. She had help with editing. James helped her at first. Later, she hired others to help her. She used advice from her helpers and friends, and she used sources, other tracts and books which she recommended to others. She never tried to hide her use of sources. She used words which expressed the inspired ideas. Suggestions which improved, and in some cases made statements less controversial, were adopted by her. It is my understanding that all the changes which were made before her death, were approved by her.

Okay, what "inspired idea" is she trying to get across here?

"The sexual passion is indulged during pregnancy, which causes the mother to transmit doubly of the direful ail to the offspring within her womb ... every orgasm expends of the mother's vitality a portion that should go to nourish and develop her babe. Very much of the weakness and lassitude experienced during pregnancy is due to the exhaustion consequent upon the sexual embrace, and the forming child must suffer from its effects: for the mother cannot impart what she does not herself possess, health and strength."

I have never read the forgoing. Was this in "Great Controversy?" I missed that paragraph. Or was it in an early book, and deleted from subsequent editions? She did that sometimes when later visions showed her that she had been wrong, just as Nathan was shown pertaining to David and the temple.

Original manuscripts of scripture were written without spaces and without punctuation, and without chapter and verse separation, and without many of the little words we use to help us understand what we are reading. Just look at any interlinear Bible where the words are translated literally, and you will see that a lot of jots and tittles have been added to the original writings to make the Bible version we read every day.

While I do believe that Jesus did not change the true meaning of the original inspiration, it is clear to me that His interpretations are not the same as earlier scrolls. If the Holy Spirit had given words to the Holy men of old who spake as they were moved, then those words would have been exactly the same as the words of Jesus. The correct conclusion must be that the Holy Spirit gave those men ideas, which they tried to convey in their own words.

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While they may have the legal right to change them, does that give them the moral, God-given right to make changes? The way I am reading her I don't think so.

Do you find her saying that it's okay to change what God has inspired?

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She did that sometimes when later visions showed her that she had been wrong...

She had later visions to correct her earlier ones? How are we supposed to know what version of her visions was the correct one? Now I'm starting to get lost.....

<edit> Almost forgot, the referenced quote is from "A Solemn Appeal".

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Originally Posted By: oldsailor29
She did that sometimes when later visions showed her that she had been wrong...

She had later visions to correct her earlier ones? How are we supposed to know what version of her visions was the correct one? Now I'm starting to get lost.....

See? That is only one of the problems you have if you believe in word inspiration.

Timothycure, WelchGary and Charlessr like this

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See? That is only one of the problems you have if you believe in word inspiration.

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When God spoke, the Bible writer stated, "and God said..." or something like that. When Moses or a prophet like Moses spoke, the Bible writer said, "Moses said ..." or something like that. Note that when a prophet like Moses spoke a law to the people which he had just received from God, he always credited Moses, even though Moses had passed away long before.

If you insist that God gave the Bible writers the words, then you have to recognize the irreconcilable differences in some scripture, and decide which one is true. If OTOH, you accept the idea that holy men were inspired with ideas, and different accounts were written and edited together later, then there is no untrue scripture, just different words from different prophets concerning the ideas which were inspired.

I mean, you have two different stories about Jacob's name being changed to Israel. Would you rather reject one of them, or believe the story was written twice by two different prophets who wrote different details. The important part of the story is that God changed Jacob's name to Israel, not where or when.

And there is also two different reasons given as to why Moses was not allowed to go into the promised land. One story blames Moses, and the other story blames the people. If you believe in word inspiration, you have to ask, which story is true? And you have to accept one and reject the other. And it is the same with all the narratives in which a story is told two different ways. If you believe in word inspiration, you have to accept one and reject the other.

The simple fact is, God inspired His prophets with ideas, and more than one prophet wrote the two different narratives, and they used different words, and filled in the details differently.

Satan wants people to believe in word inspiration, because all their faith is based on it all being true, or all being a pack of lies. And when you have studied the Bible enough to determine that there are indeed inconsistencies there, then it is Satan's desire that you will conclude the Bible is a pack of lies.

I prefer to go with the idea that God inspires people with ideas, not words. And I state again what I said before, if god had given His prophets the words, they would have been the same words which were spoken by Jesus.

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Then we have nothing to discuss. If you don't want to accept the bible as "God-breathed" I can accept that. As for me and my house we will believe the WORD of God.

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Then we have nothing to discuss. If you don't want to accept the bible as "God-breathed" I can accept that. As for me and my house we will believe the WORD of God.

okay then, where and when was Jacob's name changed to Israel? Was it when he wrestled with the angel at Peniel? Or was it in Bethel, after he came out of Padanaram? (compare Genesis 32 with Genesis 35)

You are saying God used Moses as His pen, and effectively wrote both of those stories. Do you still believe Moses was God's pen? Or can you accept that God's prophets were not God's pens, but were His penmen? If he gave them words, they were His pens. If He gave them ideas, they were His penmen.

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