Stan

8. Ellen White's writings are unavailable, "locked away in a vault."

37 posts in this topic

God's Prophet's were penmen. They were given thoughts, visions, dreams, and ideas. Not words.

I think it is disrespectful to refer to Sister White as just Ellen. Anyone who does that has obvious disdain for the Prophet.

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God's Prophet's were penmen. They were given thoughts, visions, dreams, and ideas. Not words.

I think it is disrespectful to refer to Sister White as just Ellen. Anyone who does that has obvious disdain for the Prophet.

I think Ellen is nice, maybe even a affectionate way to refer to her. Certainly a lot better than some of the names she has been called here on this website.

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I think it is disrespectful to refer to Sister White as just Ellen. Anyone who does that has obvious disdain for the Prophet.

This is the USA and she's not my prophet.

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While they may have the legal right to change them, does that give them the moral, God-given right to make changes? The way I am reading her I don't think so.

Do you find her saying that it's okay to change what God has inspired?

It would depend on what you're talking about, but again, you are not being clear as to what exactly you have in mind.

Yes, I do believe that they would have the moral right to make certain kinds of changes. For instance, when it comes to punctuation, spelling, etc. I do not believe they would be right to make changes that would result in a different meaning from what's in the original statement.

Do you believe that Ellen G. White was a genuine prophet of God?

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Originally Posted By: Haldog

She had later visions to correct her earlier ones? How are we supposed to know what version of her visions was the correct one? Now I'm starting to get lost.....

See? That is only one of the problems you have if you believe in word inspiration.

Could you give an example of when Ellen White removed parts of books because she discovered that she had been wrong? Or of when Ellen White was given visions to correct an earlier vision?

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... she's not my prophet.

Do you believe God gave her visions and dreams and that she was inspired by God to write messages for the church?

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Could you give an example of when Ellen White removed parts of books because she discovered that she had been wrong? Or of when Ellen White was given visions to correct an earlier vision?

I would like to see this also.

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Then we have nothing to discuss. If you don't want to accept the bible as "God-breathed" I can accept that. As for me and my house we will believe the WORD of God.

Yes, Scripture was God-breathed. The Holy Spirit gave the prophets visions and dreams and also helped them choose the words to express the messages. They wrote as they were carried along by the Spirit.

But God did not dictate the words we find in the Bible. In that, I agree with oldsailor29. The prophets and apostles wrote in their own words. God helped them choose the words but they were written according to the personalities, background, and viewpoints of the author's.

Some verses which show the Scriptures were God-breathed-- that even particular words were inspired-- are John 10: 35; Gal. 3: 16; John 8: 58.

The following expresses my own view, and the view of the SDA church, on the topic:

Quote:
Divine revelation was given by inspiration of God to "holy men of God" who were "moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). These revelations were embodied in human language with all its limitations and imperfections, yet they remained God's testimony. God inspired men—not words.

Were the prophets as passive as tape recorders that replay exactly what is recorded? In some instances writers were commanded to express the exact words of God, but in most cases God instructed them to describe to the best of their ability what they saw or heard. In these latter cases, the writers used their own language patterns and style.

Paul observed that "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Cor.14:32). Genuine inspiration does not obliterate the prophet's individuality, reason, integrity, or personality.

To some degree, Moses and Aaron's relationship illustrates that between the Holy Spirit and the writer. God said to Moses, "'I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet'" (Ex. 7:1; cf. 4:15, 16). Moses informed Aaron of God's messages, and, in turn, Aaron communicated them in his own vocabulary and style to Pharaoh. Likewise Bible writers conveyed divine commands, thoughts, and ideas, in their own style of language. It is because God communicates in this way that the vocabulary of the different books of the Bible is varied and reflects the education and culture of the writers.

The Bible "is not God's mode of thought and expression. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen." 1 "Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God." 2

In one instance we have God speaking and writing the exact words, the Ten Commandments. They are of divine, not human composition (Ex. 20:1-17; 31:18; Deut.10:4, 5), yet even these had to be expressed within the limits of human language.

The Bible, then, is divine truth expressed in human language. Imagine trying to teach quantum physics to a baby. This is the type of problem God faces in His attempt to communicate divine truths to sinful, limited humanity. It is our limitations that restrict what He can communicate to us.

A parallel exists between the incarnate Jesus and the Bible: Jesus was God and man combined, the divine and the human in one. So the Bible is the divine and human combined. As it was said of Christ, so it can be affirmed of the Bible that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14). This divine-human combination makes the Bible unique among literature. Source: http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-01.htm

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Ah, if we only understood inspiration.  God inspires ideas, shows visions, and speaks; it is the work of the prophet to put what God has declared to him in the best words possible.  Later, re-reading might suggest a better way to detail so changes are made.  The prophet wants to convey what was shown or addressed to him in the best way possible, and if later understanding gives the prophet a better way to present it then why not.  Subsequent changes have been made because the English language changes over time, and the norm of the language also changes.  So EGW gave the foundation the right to make changes so  that the original ideas might still be understandable to people one hundred years from her time.  Language evolves so it is necessary to keep the idea but to word it in a way which is  understandable to later generations.   They are changing words because words change in meaning.  When I was a kid "gay" meant being happy, but the GLAD people have stolen the word and it now represents a lifestyle.  If I was now presenting a piece of work where gay was used to indicate happiness, I would have to change it to something that reflected the true intent of happiness.  Did I change the words?  Yes, I did.  Did I change the intent?  No, I made it possible for my generation to understand the original intent. 

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When Paul says scripture is God-breathed, he is referring to the fact that scripture is alive not dead.  When God created Adam, he breathed into Adam the breath of life and he became a living being.  So it is with scripture, God has empowered to be his living word; it speaks to us because God has empowered it to do just that.  God-breathed says nothing about the process of inspiration, just the quality of the word.

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I've seen the original documents at Andrews. Yes, the wording has been changed many times. You can see how Ellen White herself crossed words out and then crossed the new words out. Over and over she reconsidered her words. But it was her who made the changes.

There is a project underway to change genders in EGWs writings to satisfy the politically correct crowd. I cannot say it is the White Estate.

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