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Derockgt

Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary # 24

31 posts in this topic

(Continued from pervious post)

The two atonements of the sanctuary service

Derek,

There is a sacrifice that makes an atonement for sin and there is a final atonement that removes all confessed sin from the sanctuary, putting it on the head of a scapegoat. You are confusing the two. Jesus' blood need only be offered once because He is both the sacrificial offering and the High Priest, and He need only die once. His blood will make an atonement for each confessed and forsaken sin; and for the final atonement when these sins are permanently removed from the Heavenly Sanctuary at the close of the judgment. He only dies once.
 

ATONEMENT FOR SINNERS
Lev 1:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, [even] of the herd, and of the flock.
1:3 If his offering [be] a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
1:4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him
to make atonement for him. the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.

This is the atonement made by Jesus (He being our propitiation) at the cross. He was the antitypical lamb.

FINAL ATONEMENT
Lev 23:27 Also on the tenth [day] of this seventh month [there shall be] a
day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

This final atonement is when at the closing of earth's history, for Jesus is acting as the antitypical high Priest. His blood also allows Him to be the antitypical Day of Atonement goat. Satan will, of course, be the antitypical scapegoat  upon which all the sins of confessed and repentant sinners will be placed when the Judgment closes. If sins were blotted out at the cross then there would be no sins of the people to place on the scapegoat at final "Day of Atonement"

If  you think that Jesus made a complete and final atonement at the cross, then you will have to conclude that the types of the two atonements laid out in Leviticus are not types at all and are not profitable for doctrine. You are also going to have to explain why Paul, in Heb 9:12 says Jesus entered the First Apartment with His blood.

Also, the idea that confessed and forgiven sins are  blotted out forever at the time of their remission contradicts scripture, which says that a man's sins can fall back on him if he falls away from the Lord. This parable of the wicked servant in Matt 18:23-34 is clear that once  forgiven sins can come back upon the sinner.

 

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15 hours ago, jackson said:

Rachel,

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you meant Satan was to blame for our sins and we were not to blame. You explained it more clearly to me above, and I agree with all you have said there.

I might add that only the sins that went into the sanctuary, i.e., those repented and forsaken, went onto the head of Satan. Those known  sins not repented and brought into the sanctuary were left for the wicked to bear in the judgment.

 

Thanks Jackson. 

I agree that the confessed sins of Israel (which includes all grafted in Gentile believers) were confessed over the head of the scapegoat.  One is not "forgiven" because one has Hebrew DNA. 

Also included were sins of unintentional ignorance.  These sins were not confessed because they were not "known" to the one who sinned. 

On 3/22/2017 at 0:26 AM, jackson said:

This is an investigation to show all of Creation the evidence for why some are chosen for eternal life and many are not., and the evidence of the fairness of it all.

Rachel answers:

One would think that after observing the selfishness, and outright evil behavior of humans for some 6000 years (with the resulting destruction/pain) the super-intelligent unfallen beings would UNDERSTAND WHY most of them need to die.  What they don't understand is why ANY of them should live.   WHY preserve any of them for eternal life? 

I think this is more likely a judgment for or against Christ's desire to preserve part of humanity, rather than allowing them to go down to oblivion.  

Has Christ demonstrated that He can rehabilitate humankind to the point where they will not rebel again, bringing further pain and chaos?   Those individuals who surrender fully to Christ, and walk with Him through testing and trial, demonstrate to unfallen beings that Christ CAN do it, therefore it is safe to resurrect those who only began the process.  

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14 hours ago, jackson said:

There is a sacrifice that makes an atonement for sin and there is a final atonement that removes all confessed sin from the sanctuary, putting it on the head of a scapegoat. You are confusing the two. Jesus' blood need only be offered once because He is both the sacrificial offering and the High Priest, and He need only die once. His blood will make an atonement for each confessed and forsaken sin; and for the final atonement when these sins are permanently removed from the Heavenly Sanctuary at the close of the judgment. He only dies once.

NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

KJV Hebrews 10:16-17   16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;  17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Question: Why would God keep a record of sins He said He remembers NO MORE?  Of what use will that record be?  Do you have any verse(s) from Scriptures hinting of record of sins being kept somewhere in heaven?

Can you please directly address the above questions, jackson?

Thanks.

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6 hours ago, Samie said:

NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

KJV Hebrews 10:16-17   16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;  17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Question: Why would God keep a record of sins He said He remembers NO MORE?  Of what use will that record be?  Do you have any verse(s) from Scriptures hinting of record of sins being kept somewhere in heaven?

Can you please directly address the above questions, jackson?

Thanks.

 

The following parable of Jesus shows that God may forgive but it is only after the judgment that He  remembers  your sins no more.

 

Matt        Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 

   But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 

   And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 

   And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 

   So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 

   Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 

   Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 

   And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 

   So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. 

 

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9 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

 

One would think that after observing the selfishness, and outright evil behavior of humans for some 6000 years (with the resulting destruction/pain) the super-intelligent unfallen beings would UNDERSTAND WHY most of them need to die.  What they don't understand is why ANY of them should live.   WHY preserve any of them for eternal life? 

I think this is more likely a judgment for or against Christ's desire to preserve part of humanity, rather than allowing them to go down to oblivion.  

Has Christ demonstrated that He can rehabilitate humankind to the point where they will not rebel again, bringing further pain and chaos?   Those individuals who surrender fully to Christ, and walk with Him through testing and trial, demonstrate to unfallen beings that Christ CAN do it, therefore it is safe to resurrect those who only began the process.  

It seems to me that not every heavenly intelligence is privy to the deeds and thoughts of fallen men and women. There will unlikely be many surprises as to whose names are in the book of life and whose are not.

Eccl 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil. 

Romans 2:16"The day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

The "books" of heaven notes all our actions and thoughts

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 
 

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12 hours ago, jackson said:

It seems to me that not every heavenly intelligence is privy to the deeds and thoughts of fallen men and women. There will unlikely be many surprises as to whose names are in the book of life and whose are not.

Eccl 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil. 

Romans 2:16"The day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

The "books" of heaven notes all our actions and thoughts

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 
 

I think the confusion comes in part because the word translated "judgment" or "judge" can mean EITHER the hearing of the facts to determine reward or punishment, OR the actual execution of the punishment.  The "Day of Judgment" is the day when judgment is executed.  In Rev. 14 - "the hour of His judgment has come" - I agree - seems more like a hearing of the facts, because specific actions are commanded of men, to follow this "hour".  If it were the day of execution, there would be no time for such actions. 

In Rev 14:7, "has come" is in the aorist tense of the Greek, which is not quite the same as present tense.  It's more like a sure process has begun.  It's like beginning to begin, or beginning.  That actually would allow for actions to take place by persons on earth - as it were - just in time.

Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24 NKJ)

Not myself believing in "once saved - always saved" - at least in the Baptist sense, I would say the one who believes and continues in that faith until death - he will "not come into judgment". 

Jesus said, "I know My sheep."   I can't imagine that has changed since He spoke those words.   If Jesus says, "That one is mine.  I claim her for myself."  I believe that's the end of it. 

As a child I used to live in FEAR, thinking that my name could come up for judgment at any moment.  In Sabbath School the teacher would talk about being "weighed in the balances".   I do not believe that Jesus wanted me to have nightmares thinking I might be lost, and be thrown into fire.  That's not TRUST relationship. 

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