very interested in feedback on our April cover story

[Stan]

#metoo  I think, it is the best well-written cover story our magazine has ever had.

Not for the faint of heart.

 

http://issues.adventistmessenger.ca/books/pran/#p=25

[Gregory Matthews]

I would like to be able to read the article.  It is too hard to read as posted.

 

[Gail]

Part of me is thinking, Why do you find this so shocking? This kind of event is more common that we want to admit.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Don't know if these screen shots of the article will be "readable" or not...

 

 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I guess I'm a cynic.  My reaction to the article was, "This isn't anything new... and it's never going to change."  I think the church and its ancillary faction of healthcare will always be a bastion of the "good ol' boys" mentality.

And frankly, I'm tired of the "#me too" bandwagon.  In my opinion,  many who haven't really been sexually abused have jumped on board and claimed the #me too slogan, so that it basically has become passé and meaningless as a vehicle for change.

**shrugs**

Sorry that it happened to the gal in the article....

[Gail]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

I dont find it shocking as in not believing it. I find it shocking that people continue to do this.

That's it- the point right there.

[Gail]

2 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

I guess I'm a cynic.  My reaction to the article was, "This isn't anything new... and it's never going to change."  I think the church and its ancillary faction of healthcare will always be a bastion of the "good ol' boys" mentality.

And frankly, I'm tired of the "#me too" bandwagon.  In my opinion,  many who haven't really been sexually abused have jumped on board and claimed the #me too slogan, so that it basically has become passé and meaningless as a vehicle for change.

**shrugs**

Sorry that it happened to the gal in the article....

Yep. Too often women have been treated as objects of fun or in a manner to reinforce worthlessness. It ISN'T anything new. 

[Gail]

1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

OK so what is your point?  Are you saying its "wrong" for a person to be shocked when they read this stuff? What is the "right" way to feel?

No... As Pam pointed out, it has been going on for so long there's doubt that the situation will change.

[Gail]

I thank God for noble men that value women instead of devaluing them.

[B/W Photodude]

The main event in the story occurred quite while ago as in the family picture the children are much older and this happened before she was even married. Perhaps the only redeeming reason to even have the story now is that the pastor/chaplain is still being kept in leadership positions by people who knew the details.

However, yeah it is bad she got treated this way, but doing evil is an equal opportunity sin. But we don't really need another contest to see what horror stories have gone on in families and churches, now do we?!

[Gregory Matthews]

Thanks to Pam, I was able to read the story.  Thanks.

In my opinion the SDA denomination  has come a long way in how it relates to  these cases.  I am not saying that it has reached perfection.   It is making progress.

I find it  interesting that the Canadian Union Conference is attempting to be healing to people whom were not injured by it.  That is  great.

 

[Outta Here]

The culture of  "It must be hard living with a woman like that." is still very much alive and well in the Adventist church. Ask any woman whose husband served as a head elder for 20+ years and had multiple affairs throughout those 20+ years...just ask her whose stories the Christians believed. 

Deception and lies run rampant in the church. 

It's nice that some in the adminstrative/pastoral roles want to see change; but let them get the mote out of their eyes first before trying to remove the splinters from others. 

 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I showed the story to my Mom (a very astute 92-yr-old who's been a member of the church for over 70 years).  Mom's reaction was different from mine.  She was horrified to think that pastors or others in church leadership positions would behave in such a manner, and the fact that punishment was neither swift nor adequate.

I'm thinking now that the story may be quite valuable in that it can open the eyes of long-time members who sometimes have placed church officials and pastors on invisible pedestals.  Many people don't *want* to hear about (or read) anything negative pertaining to the church.  But, imho, they really need to...

[Stan]

thanks for the comments, I chose this story because of the healing she has gone through..  as you can imagine some may want to see me fry in doing this story..

[B/W Photodude]

16 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

This comment shows the root of the problem quite well. Its just so wrong...

You could be a little more specific what exactly you see as the root of the problem. I could see how some would have a problem with the comment from different directions.

[B/W Photodude]

14 minutes ago, Stan said:

 I chose this story because of the healing she has gone through.

I have run into people who were tired of the stories like this one, although you noted the thing that made it worth readings was the healing. Others I have chatted with just noted we all go thru traumatic events in our lives and just get over them. I was in rounds in the hospital one day when someone mentioned a patient had a dysfunctional family to which someone else noted that we all have "dysfunctional" families! Those families which seem to be perfectly functionally and everyone in the family growing up without issues only live in TV Land such as the Cleavers.

Probably many have done all their healing on their own.

15 minutes ago, Stan said:

… as you can imagine some may want to see me fry in doing this story..

Some may not want to hear these stories and sometimes the type of story seems to be more "socially acceptable" at certain times such as in what does the society want to deal with at this moment. Fifty years ago, no one wanted to hear about child molestation and even if social workers heard about it they would do little about it. It wasn't uncommon at one time to even challenge the victim of child molestation with accusations of why did they molest the adult! Seriously! I think the pendulum has swung very far the other way these days.

Some may not want certain stories such as this one out when a church leader is involved because they are afraid publicity will hurt the church and it seems the "church" is more valuable than the victim. I do think that misbehavior of leaders should not be hidden to protect the church. God will watch out for His church.

[Gail]

I think the value in reporting a story like this is authenticity. It's reality

[B/W Photodude]

Granted that the story was very old and now, nothing can much be done regarding it. But she reports seeing her underwear (and the evidence) and should have done something about it then. It would be next to impossible for the man in the story, if innocent, to now prove his innocence because he has already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Sadly, police departments are having a hard time in these cases because they want to believe, but then they also get burned in the process. And sometimes it is just "rush to judgement."

Someone is bound to say well she was traumatized. True, maybe, but there have been cases where 10 years olds were able to act with coolness in the situation that preserved evidence and fairly convicted someone.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/102380220/children-admit-making-up-sex-claims-against-auckland-teacher-to-get-him-fired

I would be willing to put up money on it that nowhere near the effort will be made to recover this man's career and reputation as was spent trying to take him down. The police seem to be in CYA mode.

[Stan]

We are well aware of who the Pastor is, and where he is working, and as a Pastor,  We have been told that he was made aware of this story, there is also a video about this.

We have changed in 20 years how we treat these perpetrators, it has been years since, as a rule, they were given grace after they confessed and repented. That being said I know of a couple of incidents where a conference is ignoring that. We will fight them on this.

[Stan]

she has begun making her way home, to the Adventist Church, it has not been an easy journey.

[Gail]

No doubt it has been a hard journey! I wish her the best

Situations like this make me think hard about how devastating sin is, and how multifaceted the effects. With a lighthearted reading of Biblical principles these principles can surely become words turned into damaging spears to be thrown at victims who know firsthand the brokenness and depth of sorrow of their violation. We need compassion and mercy. God was not joking when He in love outlined for us the true issues. So often we believers are so shallow  

[Gail]

GayatfootofCross has posted a TEDtalk in the Women's Ordination section that relates to stories like this that take place within a religious setting:

https://adventistan.com/forums/topic/72691-why-i-left-an-evangelical-cult/

I appreciate also Wanderer's link. 

In my brain there is no easy answer. There is just something wrong with activity that destroys. At least, I believe it to be wrong. Maybe that is the problem: that not everyone draws the line in the same place in the sand.

[james423]

I found the pages I wanted to read and put the computer in print mode. Then I could use a set of buttons on the right side to enlarge or minimize the page.  Not the greatest solution, but the article was very readable.

[Gregory Matthews]

A couple of comments, based in part, upon my personal experience in working with abused women:

*  As part of the healing process, she needs to tell her story and to know that people are listening.

*  It can be very hard for an abused woman to return to the SDA Church.

*  Abuse can be sexual, physical, emotional and spiritual.

*  All of  the above abuse has been committed, in the name of God, within the SDA Church.

*  Forgiveness does not mean forgetfulness.

*  Forgiveness is typically not the first, most immediate need of the abused woman.

NOTE:  My professional experience has been in working with abused women, the male abuser (limited number) and has not included abused men.  But, I do not deny that men may be abused.