If Worship on Sunday is wrong, then why do SDA rent their churches to Traditional Christian?

[hobie]

Interesting question came up in one of the forums from a Sunday worshiping poster, "If Worship on Sunday is wrong, then why do SDA parishes rent their churches to Traditional Christians?

On this forum Sunday-worshipping Christians are relentlessly criticized by some Adventist members, but meanwhile a great many SDA churches rent their premises out to Orthodox, Anglican and other traditional churches for use in Sunday worship.

If worship on the First Day is, as has been argued, ?the mark of the beast? or some act of eschatological disloyalty or defiance to God, then how is it ethical for SDA congregations to charge rent and make money off of Christians worshipping in such a manner?

Indeed I attended a church that worshipped in an Adventist church this morning; I won?t say which church I attended or which Adventist church they worshipped in to preclude harassment, but it is quite common. The Adventists even made their social hall available, and a very friendly Adventist was present to assist the traditional denomination I visited in accessing the facilities, and he did so without commenting on their faith.

Also it was interesting to note that the main sanctuary featured a pipe organ, paraments and other fittings and was basically identical to any Presbyterian, Methodist or Baptist or low church Anglican parish from the mid 20th century; indeed its appearance strongly reminded me of the USAF Academy in Colorado Springs (albeit without the particularly lovely architecture of Skdmore Owings and Merrill, but the overall layout of the primary and secondary worship spaces was very much in keeping with it)."

What would you answer to such a question?

[Gustave]

A great question Hobbie!

Another point to add is that:

There are more Catholics who attend Mass on Saturday than there are Seventh-day Adventists. If worshipping Christ as God on Sunday is a sin, is a worse sin than repudiating the Trinity Doctrine? 

[Hanseng]

Orthodox Jews who are careful Sabbath observers will sell a 1/7 interest in their business to a Goy. If the Goy chooses to open on Sabbath, it doesn't concern the Sabbath keeper. He doesn't own the business on that day.

[Hanseng]

Since the local congregation doesn't actually own the building, who profits from the arrangement? Does the local congregation who, in theory, paid for the building keep the money, or is it paid to  the denomination?

The denomination allows congregants to attend services in a building they own, even though congregants paid for the building. My guess is that if the administration wanted to rent out the church to a homosexual advocacy group for "pride" meetings, the local congregation could find themselves locked out if they oppose it. This might sound impossible but at least one church member found herself banished from a couple  of pro-gay SDA churches, one of which she had attended for years prior to “inclusion.”  Just as they compelled congregations to accept female pastors, admin could install gay clergy. If you give your money to an organization like SDA, you shouldn't be surprised if  homosexuals, female pastors, and Sunday keepers  are “shoved down your throat." Nothing you can do about it. Normally, "Who pays the fiddler calls the tune." Not in Adventism. Pay your tithe and protest homosexuality, you could be banished. Suppose a gay congregation wants to rent an SDA building, see your donations at work?

 

[Gregory Matthews]

There are 7 days in a week.  God may be worshiped on any/all of those 7  days.  

*  SDA pastors hold worship services on Saturday and Sunday evenings.  Take your pick.  One of those is the Biblical first day of the week.

*  SDA pastors serving in chaplaincy positions hold worship services on Sunday mornings.  In my service as a Federal chaplain, I have held  more worship services on Sunday morning than I have held on Saturday as a a pastor of a SDA Chruch.

* My service as a Fderal Chaplalin was endorsed by the General Conference who was fully awaare that I  held Sunday w orship services.  NOTE,  IF the General Conference had not approved of wah tI did, they could have removed me from my federal position.  Federal Chqaplains only serve with the permission of tlheir denominaiton.

*  The Sabbath is much more than a worswhip service, It is a 24 hour day devoted to God.   In all of my life I have kept Saturday, the 7th day, as a Sabbth.  I have never kept Sunday as a Sabbath.

* If you think that mere worship on a day makes it a Sabbath, you lneed to review the Biblical and SDA teaching, as youy clearly donot understand them.

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

NOTE:  As a congregational SDA pastor, I have had situations whereone of the partners was a SDA and the other was a member of another denomination.  I have always urged the SDA member to attend services on Sunday with their partner.  I have welcomed their partner to attend my servicces on Saturday.

As a Feceral chaplain I have attended many Catholic services on Sunday morning.  I considerd such to be part of my duties.  The Priest always welcomed me, but never considered me to be a convert.

The Biblical Sabbath is much more than a worship service.

[Hanseng]

10 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I have always urged the sDA member to attend services on Sunday with their partner. 

Some of the best sermons I ever heard came from Sunday keeping preachers: John MacArthur, Billy Graham, Kip McKean. I consider them among the best because I still remember them. I don't remember exactly what Billy Graham said but I do remember sensing the presence of the Holy Spirit and reaffirming my commitment to Christ.

I hand wrote a letter to Billy Graham asking about the Sabbath. I received a very professional, typed response from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. I accepted Christ at a crusade he held at Chavez Ravine in either 1958 or 1963..

God does not dwell in temples made with men's hands.

[Kevin H]

Seventh-day Adventists supports liberty of conscience for all. Ellen White was proud of our churches allowing others to worship in our buildings on Sunday. Mrs. White herself went from being a shut-door Adventist into becoming a very popular preacher in non-Adventist churches, often giving the Sunday sermons. By the way, her sermons were not on the Sabbath or the Mark of the Beast, but she preached on the beauty of Jesus, how much Jesus loves them, and the health message. 

Mrs. White wrote Steps to Christ for the general Christian world published at a popular non-Adventist publishing house. Another non-Adventist publishing house had requested her to write a series of books for them. As they came to work out the contract, Mrs. White said that she saw her angel indicating that she needed to wait and pointed to one clause. This clause would have given an unusual amount of rights to the book and exclusive printing of the book to the company. Mrs. White said that she could not sign with that clause. They tried to pressure her into signing anyway, but said that they could  not back off that clause, and the contract was never signed. It turned out that the company was in a very bad financial condition. They were hoping that this series of books from her would place them back on solid financial ground. They soon went out of business and the way that clause was written would have caused it to be extremely difficult to reprint, if at all, as well as making it difficult if not impossible for her to say/write anything similar to what those books had. Even though that clause prevented Mrs. White from signing the contract and writing those books, it shows her willingness to work with the Christian world as a whole.

Of course, as a business, many of our leaders are looking for winning as many tithe and offering paying members as possible. We have subgroups who want to present their version of Adventism as the only truth, and want to first of all make Adventists, but then make their version of Adventism. But that is them, and from what I understand from looking at Mrs. White herself and Adventist History, I don't see this spirit to be Seventh-day Adventism itself. In the 1800s as we were forming, many wanted our church name to be something like "The true church of God" or similar exalted titles. Mrs. White did not like this and said that Seventh-day Adventists tells the world who we are, a humble name, that we are Adventists who worship on the Seventh-day. 

Mrs. White tells us that the Sabbath-Sunday issue and the potential of Sunday laws will bring the final test to the Christian world. But I have not found where she makes the Sunday issue THE final test in an of itself and to the whole world. She points to a larger issue on liberty of conscience, and that the test itself, the mark of the beast itself is to come to the same conclusions as the beast when it comes to conversion [justification] and sanctification. And that all the details are not yet known and will not be known until the unrolling of the scroll and the sounding of the trumpets. Also, when it comes to how we relate to other religions, she pictures the Seventh-day Adventist Church,  not as an exclusive church that everyone else needs to join to be saved, but as playing a pastoral role among the churches.  We see this lived out in her life in her using her perspective as a Seventh-day Adventist to preach in other churches about the beauty of Jesus and how much Jesus loves them and to describe to people a Jesus who wants to be with them and present Jesus in a way that they want to with him (as opposed to a message of turn to Jesus to be saved from being burned forever in hell) and to encourage them to live healthier and longer lives. Mrs. White would take goodies and give them to migrant workers and encourage them that Jesus loves them, even though their response would most likely attend near by Catholic churches when they were able to attend services. 

[hobie]

On 6/28/2026 at 12:20 AM, Hanseng said:

Orthodox Jews who are careful Sabbath observers will sell a 1/7 interest in their business to a Goy. If the Goy chooses to open on Sabbath, it doesn't concern the Sabbath keeper. He doesn't own the business on that day.

Does that come from a Rabbinical ruling, or did they just decide that would justify allowing the business to keep open on the Sabbath.

[Hanseng]

3 hours ago, hobie said:

Does that come from a Rabbinical ruling, or did they just decide that would justify allowing the business to keep open on the Sabbath.

This practice was explained to me by the owner of a cafe in Hollywood, near the Jewish area known as the  Fairfax district. He looked to be an ultra-orthodox Jew. I can only assume there was some justification for what he did. 

"A non-Jew may do work on the Sabbath on property (or financial rights; see 244:6) that he is known to have leased from a Jew, even if the Jew benefits from it (243:1-2). He may do work on a Jew’s property as a contractor in a place where no Jews are present or if it is not known that the property belongs to a Jew (244:1-2,4). If the non-Jew does forbidden work without the Jew’s permission, the Jew should not benefit from the results (see 244:3;245:6;304:1;305:21-23)."

Chapter 18 - WORK DONE BY A NON-JEW ON THE SABBATH • Torah.org

According to the above, the cafe owner may have leased his shop to a Gentile for one day a week. For a definitive answer, probably best to consult a Jewish rabbi or two or three. There are different types of religious Jews.

As an aside, this fellow employed a beautiful young Japanese woman in his shop. He was hoping she would convert so they could get married, if I remember correctly [~25 years ago].

 

[phkrause]

On 7/11/2026 at 3:25 AM, Hanseng said:

"A non-Jew may do work on the Sabbath on property (or financial rights; see 244:6) that he is known to have leased from a Jew, even if the Jew benefits from it (243:1-2). He may do work on a Jew’s property as a contractor in a place where no Jews are present or if it is not known that the property belongs to a Jew (244:1-2,4). If the non-Jew does forbidden work without the Jew’s permission, the Jew should not benefit from the results (see 244:3;245:6;304:1;305:21-23)."

Those are not from the Bible are they?

[Hanseng]

10 hours ago, phkrause said:

Those are not from the Bible are they?

Those quotes are from the Shulcan Aruch [set table].

Shulchan Aruch Archives • Torah.org

[phkrause]

13 hours ago, Hanseng said:

Those quotes are from the Shulcan Aruch [set table].

I figured that! What I've notice from pretty much all Jewish Rabbis, or those that consider themselves Bible experts pretty much quote and/or use there own writings instead of what the Bible says or the first 5 books in the Bible!!

[Hanseng]

34 minutes ago, phkrause said:

pretty much quote and/or use there own writings

I was fortunate to learn from Jewish teachers who treasured the word of God, especially torah and tehillim, [Psalms]. The torah teacher employed a sort of call and response. He would translate English verses recited  back into Hebrew to locate the verse, then respond.  If prayers for the dead did any good, he would be way up on my list. The other gentleman who was kind of a tzaddik taught me enough Hebrew that we could read the Bible together. I would read the verse in Hebrew, then he would free translate it into English and we would discuss it.  Another great soul I hope to see in heaven. Learning Hebrew from him was a real spiritual experience, not an academic one.

As a young man, he learned Yiddish so he could talk with his Polish grandfather.

[Kevin H]

13 hours ago, Hanseng said:

I was fortunate to learn from Jewish teachers who treasured the word of God, especially torah and tehillim, [Psalms]. The torah teacher employed a sort of call and response. He would translate English verses recited  back into Hebrew to locate the verse, then respond.  If prayers for the dead did any good, he would be way up on my list. The other gentleman who was kind of a tzaddik taught me enough Hebrew that we could read the Bible together. I would read the verse in Hebrew, then he would free translate it into English and we would discuss it.  Another great soul I hope to see in heaven. Learning Hebrew from him was a real spiritual experience, not an academic one.

As a young man, he learned Yiddish so he could talk with his Polish grandfather.

There is a difference between traditionalists from whatever faith, and exegetics/ Biblical Theology. I very much respect Jewish teachers who use exegesis, Biblical Theology and archaeology etc. These are indeed brothers and sisters in the faith. 

[phkrause]

On 7/13/2026 at 9:53 AM, Hanseng said:

I was fortunate to learn from Jewish teachers who treasured the word of God, especially torah and tehillim, [Psalms]. The torah teacher employed a sort of call and response. He would translate English verses recited  back into Hebrew to locate the verse, then respond.  If prayers for the dead did any good, he would be way up on my list. The other gentleman who was kind of a tzaddik taught me enough Hebrew that we could read the Bible together. I would read the verse in Hebrew, then he would free translate it into English and we would discuss it.  Another great soul I hope to see in heaven. Learning Hebrew from him was a real spiritual experience, not an academic one.

As a young man, he learned Yiddish so he could talk with his Polish grandfather.

I have no doubt there love of the Torah and the Tehillim!

[Hanseng]

18 minutes ago, phkrause said:

On 7/13/2026 at 9:53 PM, Hanseng said:

Expand  

I have no doubt there love of the Torah and the Tehillim!

Mr. Goldberg, my teacher, also loved to study the book of Esther. Daniel was new to him. He was enthralled by the story of the fiery furnace.  When the Hebrews said "~ Whether God saves us or not, there is no way we are going to bow to your image," Mr. Goldberg was deeply moved by that statement, as we all should be.

[Hanseng]

On 6/28/2026 at 9:21 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

  SDA pastors serving in chaplaincy positions hold worship services on Sunday mornings.  In my service as a Federal chaplain, I have held  more worship services on Sunday morning than I have held on Saturday as a a pastor of a SDA Chruch.

The purpose of gospel preaching is to bring people to Jesus Christ as Saviour. The Holy Spirit works every day of the week. Billy Graham crusades were attended by the convicting/convincing  power of the HS.  The sermons of John MacArthur were as well. The power of God resides in His Word, wherever and whenever it is proclaimed. I might even mention Kip McKean in this context.

As Abraham travelled about, the KJV says he built altars and "called on the name of the Lord" Gen. 13:4. Young's Literal Translation says "And there doth Abraham preach in the name of Jehovah" 

[hobie]

On 6/28/2026 at 9:21 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

There are 7 days in a week.  God may be worshiped on any/all of those 7  days.  

*  SDA pastors hold worship services on Saturday and Sunday evenings.  Take your pick.  One of those is the Biblical first day of the week.

*  SDA pastors serving in chaplaincy positions hold worship services on Sunday mornings.  In my service as a Federal chaplain, I have held  more worship services on Sunday morning than I have held on Saturday as a a pastor of a SDA Chruch.

* My service as a Fderal Chaplalin was endorsed by the General Conference who was fully awaare that I  held Sunday w orship services.  NOTE,  IF the General Conference had not approved of wah tI did, they could have removed me from my federal position.  Federal Chqaplains only serve with the permission of tlheir denominaiton.

*  The Sabbath is much more than a worswhip service, It is a 24 hour day devoted to God.   In all of my life I have kept Saturday, the 7th day, as a Sabbth.  I have never kept Sunday as a Sabbath.

* If you think that mere worship on a day makes it a Sabbath, you lneed to review the Biblical and SDA teaching, as youy clearly donot understand them.

 

 

 

Not as the Sabbath, the other six are for work or labor as it says, only one day is bless and made holy or sanctified as we see..

Genesis 2 King James Version

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

[Gustave]

Adam and Eve were intended to live perpetually in the 7th day (perfection). Adam and Eve sin, get expelled from the rest of God (driven out of Eden) where the ground burps up thorns, animals are eating each other and we are told that Adam will have to now toil ALL the days of his life. Past that the Book of Exodus explains that the Sabbath was a rest of God and that God had given it to "Israel". 

[Gregory Matthews]

God may be worshiped on any day of the week.  The Sabbath, according to the Bible is only on one day, the day which on most English countries is called Saturday.  Yes, I am, aware of one place where the Biblical SAbbath is considered  to be on the day called Sunday, and SDAs in that place worship on Sunday.

 

 

[Gustave]

Initially intended to be a perpetual time. After God initiated Israel's calendar it became a fixed day determined by the new moon. I agree that God should be worshipped on any and every day of the week but disagree that what we know today as a Gregorian Saturday was part of any practice until later in Israel's history. We live on a round earth and that makes it impossible that the Sabbath day as practiced by Judaism today was intended for Gentiles. Otherwise, God would have made the earth flat. 

 

[Kevin H]

On 7/26/2026 at 6:47 PM, Gustave said:

Initially intended to be a perpetual time. After God initiated Israel's calendar it became a fixed day determined by the new moon. I agree that God should be worshipped on any and every day of the week but disagree that what we know today as a Gregorian Saturday was part of any practice until later in Israel's history. We live on a round earth and that makes it impossible that the Sabbath day as practiced by Judaism today was intended for Gentiles. Otherwise, God would have made the earth flat. 

 

In the days of Jesus and the disciples the Saturday sabbath was practiced. In the Babylon exile, the feasts of the land, such as the new moon was connected to when the feast arrived in the land. There was a series of places for smoke signals to let those who were left inside the land to notify those outside of the land know when the feast arrived. (Sometimes people who lived between, knowing that the Hebrews were looking for the signal would send signals to get them to celebrate a day or two early. 

However, the 7th day Sabbath did not need the smoke signals. They greeted the Sabbath when the sun set were they were located. Those in Babylon (or otherwise east of Jerusalem) would welcome the Sabbath as the sun set there every 7 days. Those in Jerusalem welcomed the Sabbath when the sun set there every 7 days. Those in Egypt, and farther west would celebrate when the sun set there every seven days. 

The feasts of the land were very much the feasts of the land, very connected to the agricultural cycle of the land. They were kept by the Canaanites long before Abraham was born. But the Sabbath was seen as universal and the Hebrews greeted the Sabbath when the sun set where they were, a little earlier as they were further east and a little later as they went west. (The international date line is placed pretty good based on the practice we have seen in Judaism the ancient world.) We find the 7 day week going back as far as records can be found. Now, they were connected to the sun, moon, and the 5 planets that they saw moving. Some say that the 7th day Sabbath was taken by the Hebrews from the Babylonians as they took a day of rest every 7 days on the same day that the Hebrews kept. However, they did not see it as the blessed Sabbath, but as a day where it was bad luck to work and not rest. 

[Gustave]

The Sabbath changed in ancient Israel, a day started out in the morning and would last until the following morning when a new day would start - over time this changed into an observation of the pending sabbath (Friday night being part of the sabbath). I think other things were going on with the celebration of the Sabbath as well.  

[hobie]

On 7/26/2026 at 2:44 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

God may be worshiped on any day of the week.  The Sabbath, according to the Bible is only on one day, the day which on most English countries is called Saturday.  Yes, I am, aware of one place where the Biblical SAbbath is considered  to be on the day called Sunday, and SDAs in that place worship on Sunday.

 

 

Well if one looks, the Emperor Constantine decreed that dies Solis Invicti (‘sun-day,’ or Day of Sol Invictus, Roman God of the Sun) would be the Roman day of rest throughout the Roman Empire. In antiquity, Sunday was a special day in the heathen calendar, dedicated to the sun god. If you look to see what was sun worship Britannica gives this:

Also known as: solar deity, sun god, sun goddess

sun worship, veneration of the sun or a representation of the sun as a deity, as in Atonism in Egypt in the 14th century bce.

 

Although sun worship has been used frequently as a term for “pagan” religion, it is, in fact, relatively rare. Though almost every culture uses solar motifs, only a relatively few cultures (Egyptian, Indo-European, and Meso-American) developed solar religions. All of these groups had in common a well-developed urban civilization with a strong ideology of sacred kingship. In all of them the imagery of the sun as the ruler of both the upper and the lower worlds that he majestically visits on his daily round is prominent.

The sun is the bestower of light and life to the totality of the cosmos; with his unblinking, all-seeing eye, he is the stern guarantor of justice; with the almost universal connection of light with enlightenment or illumination, the sun is the source of wisdom. These qualities—sovereignty, power of beneficence, justice, and wisdom—are central to any elite religious group, and it is within these contexts that a highly developed solar ideology is found. Kings ruled by the power of the sun and claimed descent from the sun. Solar deities, gods personifying the sun, are sovereign and all-seeing. The sun is often a prime attribute of or is identified with the Supreme Deity.