Oregon Conference Admits it Will Ordain Women

[Hanseng]

Southern Baptists' vote to ban women pastors sparks outcry from advocates - ABC News

[Gustave]

9 hours ago, Hanseng said:

Southern Baptists' vote to ban women pastors sparks outcry from advocates - ABC News

One wonders if same members of the SBC who are distraught at the pending ban of W.O. in the SBC are equally distraught that a woman who self-identifies as a man would be precluded from being ordained clergy. 

[Kevin H]

On 9/29/2026 at 5:09 PM, Asia Joe said:

Kevin, neurotic may not have been the correct term. 

Thank you Gregory for all that info. 

I still think this is going to be a big problem.

Just quoting my college professors and other church leaders talking about how we tend to fall into the three groups of Des Ford's theology, Walter Rea's attack on Ellen White and also on the other side the so called "Historic Adventists" on how they all appeal to traditions that developed within conservative Christianity but does not look nor respect all the facts. 

[Kevin H]

On 9/29/2026 at 5:09 PM, Asia Joe said:

Kevin, neurotic may not have been the correct term. 

Thank you Gregory for all that info. 

I still think this is going to be a big problem.

Just quoting my college professors and other church leaders talking about how we tend to fall into the three groups of Des Ford's theology, Walter Rea's attack on Ellen White and also on the other side the so called "Historic Adventists" on how they all appeal to traditions that developed within conservative Christianity but does not look nor respect all the facts. 

[Kevin H]

On 9/29/2026 at 5:09 PM, Asia Joe said:

Kevin, neurotic may not have been the correct term. 

Thank you Gregory for all that info. 

I still think this is going to be a big problem.

Just quoting my college professors and other church leaders talking about how we tend to fall into the three groups of Des Ford's theology, Walter Rea's attack on Ellen White and also on the other side the so called "Historic Adventists" on how they all appeal to traditions that developed within conservative Christianity but does not look nor respect all the facts. 

 

On 9/30/2026 at 2:14 AM, Hanseng said:

EGW was not a pastor. As far as I know, she never functioned as a pastor, i.e., served as the overseer of a congregation. It is quite a stretch to compare her work to the work women want to do in the church today. 

Some may remember Dan Collins. He worked with Amazing Facts in the days of Joe Crews. Dan was hired because he was an effective soul winner. He was noticed when he brought a dozen people to an AF crusade, ready for baptism, schooled in SDA doctrine. How many SDA pastors. male or female, meet that criteria?

Some people want a female pastor. Some want a homosexual.  A  person who wants a straight male pastor can go to a congregation which has one. If one is not available, connect with 7th day Baptists or the Church of Christ, 7th day. The statement of faith 7th day Baptists hold is one with which most SDA could agree. A home church might be an option. Those who are opposed to woman pastors should keep in mind that your tithe may be used to pay them.

Ellen White lived when there were women pastors. When our leaders in the west started more churches they would ordain someone to take care of the work, the best they could find whether they were male or female. Yes, one ended up with paperwork that included the word "Ordained" others got paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" but were supposed to get the papers that said "Ordained" once more members were educated to know that women's ordination is indeed Biblical.  The New York Conference had a woman who started many churches and was a powerful soul winner, who was approved for ordination, but was given the paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" and this again was only to have been a temporary situation replaced with paperwork with the word "Ordained" when more members understand that women's ordination is indeed Biblical. The General Conference send a woman to Norway who was a very powerful worker setting up churches in Norway (My grandma's aunt was brought into the church by a "Bible Lady" from America, and that could have been either Mrs. White or this other woman.) 

We find in the book of Acts, Paul would raise up churches then often left them in the care of the leading women of the community. The Greek grammar of some of the women, indicate pastoral situations. For example in all but one place of talking about this couple as husband and wife it is Aquila and Priscilla, but 100% of the time as a ministry team it is Priscilla and Aquila. (The one time when as a married couple that it is "Priscilla and Aquila" could well be a copy error since we always find them as a ministerial team as "Priscilla and Aquila.")  It is the same grammar as when first in Acts when Barnabas was in charge it used "Barnabas and Saul" but then when Saul/Paul became the leader it was changed to "Paul and Barnabas." 

The "proof texts" used to say that Paul was against women's ordination would contradict was we read as Paul's practice in Acts and how he uses the terms "Aquila and Priscilla"/"Priscilla and Aquila" and have contextual situations that support a different understanding than his being against women's ordination. 

If you don't like Paul's practice and grammar, also check the actions of Jesus. Around AD 200 on, the Jewish tradition, until modern years, Rabbis were only men and not open to women. We take what happened then and read it back in history. But historically this was the end of about 400 years of debate over women should be rabbis (and in early years even priests).  The earlier Jewish tradition the rabbi (and arguments that I don't fully understand to share, even priests) could be either a man or a woman. The liberal schools, such as the school of Hillel, wanted to STOP women's ordination, while the more conservative schools, such as the school of Shammai wanted to CONTINE women's ordination. It is interesting in seeing how they ordained.  

[Kevin H]

On 9/29/2026 at 5:09 PM, Asia Joe said:

Kevin, neurotic may not have been the correct term. 

Thank you Gregory for all that info. 

I still think this is going to be a big problem.

Just quoting my college professors and other church leaders talking about how we tend to fall into the three groups of Des Ford's theology, Walter Rea's attack on Ellen White and also on the other side the so called "Historic Adventists" on how they all appeal to traditions that developed within conservative Christianity but does not look nor respect all the facts. 

 

On 9/30/2026 at 2:14 AM, Hanseng said:

EGW was not a pastor. As far as I know, she never functioned as a pastor, i.e., served as the overseer of a congregation. It is quite a stretch to compare her work to the work women want to do in the church today. 

Some may remember Dan Collins. He worked with Amazing Facts in the days of Joe Crews. Dan was hired because he was an effective soul winner. He was noticed when he brought a dozen people to an AF crusade, ready for baptism, schooled in SDA doctrine. How many SDA pastors. male or female, meet that criteria?

Some people want a female pastor. Some want a homosexual.  A  person who wants a straight male pastor can go to a congregation which has one. If one is not available, connect with 7th day Baptists or the Church of Christ, 7th day. The statement of faith 7th day Baptists hold is one with which most SDA could agree. A home church might be an option. Those who are opposed to woman pastors should keep in mind that your tithe may be used to pay them.

Ellen White lived when there were women pastors. When our leaders in the west started more churches they would ordain someone to take care of the work, the best they could find whether they were male or female. Yes, one ended up with paperwork that included the word "Ordained" others got paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" but were supposed to get the papers that said "Ordained" once more members were educated to know that women's ordination is indeed Biblical.  The New York Conference had a woman who started many churches and was a powerful soul winner, who was approved for ordination, but was given the paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" and this again was only to have been a temporary situation replaced with paperwork with the word "Ordained" when more members understand that women's ordination is indeed Biblical. The General Conference send a woman to Norway who was a very powerful worker setting up churches in Norway (My grandma's aunt was brought into the church by a "Bible Lady" from America, and that could have been either Mrs. White or this other woman.) 

We find in the book of Acts, Paul would raise up churches then often left them in the care of the leading women of the community. The Greek grammar of some of the women, indicate pastoral situations. For example in all but one place of talking about this couple as husband and wife it is Aquila and Priscilla, but 100% of the time as a ministry team it is Priscilla and Aquila. (The one time when as a married couple that it is "Priscilla and Aquila" could well be a copy error since we always find them as a ministerial team as "Priscilla and Aquila.")  It is the same grammar as when first in Acts when Barnabas was in charge it used "Barnabas and Saul" but then when Saul/Paul became the leader it was changed to "Paul and Barnabas." 

The "proof texts" used to say that Paul was against women's ordination would contradict was we read as Paul's practice in Acts and how he uses the terms "Aquila and Priscilla"/"Priscilla and Aquila" and have contextual situations that support a different understanding than his being against women's ordination. 

If you don't like Paul's practice and grammar, also check the actions of Jesus. Around AD 200 on, the Jewish tradition, until modern years, Rabbis were only men and not open to women. We take what happened then and read it back in history. But historically this was the end of about 400 years of debate over women should be rabbis (and in early years even priests).  The earlier Jewish tradition the rabbi (and arguments that I don't fully understand to share, even priests) could be either a man or a woman. The liberal schools, such as the school of Hillel, wanted to STOP women's ordination, while the more conservative schools, such as the school of Shammai wanted to CONTINE women's ordination. It is interesting in seeing how they ordained and compare to what Jesus said and did.

[Kevin H]

On 9/29/2026 at 5:09 PM, Asia Joe said:

Kevin, neurotic may not have been the correct term. 

Thank you Gregory for all that info. 

I still think this is going to be a big problem.

Just quoting my college professors and other church leaders talking about how we tend to fall into the three groups of Des Ford's theology, Walter Rea's attack on Ellen White and also on the other side the so called "Historic Adventists" on how they all appeal to traditions that developed within conservative Christianity but does not look nor respect all the facts. 

 

On 9/30/2026 at 2:14 AM, Hanseng said:

EGW was not a pastor. As far as I know, she never functioned as a pastor, i.e., served as the overseer of a congregation. It is quite a stretch to compare her work to the work women want to do in the church today. 

Some may remember Dan Collins. He worked with Amazing Facts in the days of Joe Crews. Dan was hired because he was an effective soul winner. He was noticed when he brought a dozen people to an AF crusade, ready for baptism, schooled in SDA doctrine. How many SDA pastors. male or female, meet that criteria?

Some people want a female pastor. Some want a homosexual.  A  person who wants a straight male pastor can go to a congregation which has one. If one is not available, connect with 7th day Baptists or the Church of Christ, 7th day. The statement of faith 7th day Baptists hold is one with which most SDA could agree. A home church might be an option. Those who are opposed to woman pastors should keep in mind that your tithe may be used to pay them.

Ellen White lived when there were women pastors. When our leaders in the west started more churches they would ordain someone to take care of the work, the best they could find whether they were male or female. Yes, one ended up with paperwork that included the word "Ordained" others got paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" but were supposed to get the papers that said "Ordained" once more members were educated to know that women's ordination is indeed Biblical.  The New York Conference had a woman who started many churches and was a powerful soul winner, who was approved for ordination, but was given the paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" and this again was only to have been a temporary situation replaced with paperwork with the word "Ordained" when more members understand that women's ordination is indeed Biblical. The General Conference send a woman to Norway who was a very powerful worker setting up churches in Norway (My grandma's aunt was brought into the church by a "Bible Lady" from America, and that could have been either Mrs. White or this other woman.) 

We find in the book of Acts, Paul would raise up churches then often left them in the care of the leading women of the community. The Greek grammar of some of the women, indicate pastoral situations. For example in all but one place of talking about this couple as husband and wife it is Aquila and Priscilla, but 100% of the time as a ministry team it is Priscilla and Aquila. (The one time when as a married couple that it is "Priscilla and Aquila" could well be a copy error since we always find them as a ministerial team as "Priscilla and Aquila.")  It is the same grammar as when first in Acts when Barnabas was in charge it used "Barnabas and Saul" but then when Saul/Paul became the leader it was changed to "Paul and Barnabas." 

The "proof texts" used to say that Paul was against women's ordination would contradict was we read as Paul's practice in Acts and how he uses the terms "Aquila and Priscilla"/"Priscilla and Aquila" and have contextual situations that support a different understanding than his being against women's ordination. 

If you don't like Paul's practice and grammar, also check the actions of Jesus. Around AD 200 on, the Jewish tradition, until modern years, Rabbis were only men and not open to women. We take what happened then and read it back in history. But historically this was the end of about 400 years of debate over women should be rabbis (and in early years even priests).  The earlier Jewish tradition the rabbi (and arguments that I don't fully understand to share, even priests) could be either a man or a woman. The liberal schools, such as the school of Hillel, wanted to STOP women's ordination, while the more conservative schools, such as the school of Shammai wanted to CONTINE women's ordination. It is interesting in seeing how they ordained and compare to what Jesus said and did.

[Kevin H]

On 9/29/2026 at 5:09 PM, Asia Joe said:

Kevin, neurotic may not have been the correct term. 

Thank you Gregory for all that info. 

I still think this is going to be a big problem.

Just quoting my college professors and other church leaders talking about how we tend to fall into the three groups of Des Ford's theology, Walter Rea's attack on Ellen White and also on the other side the so called "Historic Adventists" on how they all appeal to traditions that developed within conservative Christianity but does not look nor respect all the facts. 

 

On 9/30/2026 at 2:14 AM, Hanseng said:

EGW was not a pastor. As far as I know, she never functioned as a pastor, i.e., served as the overseer of a congregation. It is quite a stretch to compare her work to the work women want to do in the church today. 

Some may remember Dan Collins. He worked with Amazing Facts in the days of Joe Crews. Dan was hired because he was an effective soul winner. He was noticed when he brought a dozen people to an AF crusade, ready for baptism, schooled in SDA doctrine. How many SDA pastors. male or female, meet that criteria?

Some people want a female pastor. Some want a homosexual.  A  person who wants a straight male pastor can go to a congregation which has one. If one is not available, connect with 7th day Baptists or the Church of Christ, 7th day. The statement of faith 7th day Baptists hold is one with which most SDA could agree. A home church might be an option. Those who are opposed to woman pastors should keep in mind that your tithe may be used to pay them.

Ellen White lived when there were women pastors. When our leaders in the west started more churches they would ordain someone to take care of the work, the best they could find whether they were male or female. Yes, one ended up with paperwork that included the word "Ordained" others got paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" but were supposed to get the papers that said "Ordained" once more members were educated to know that women's ordination is indeed Biblical.  The New York Conference had a woman who started many churches and was a powerful soul winner, who was approved for ordination, but was given the paperwork that did not include the word "Ordained" and this again was only to have been a temporary situation replaced with paperwork with the word "Ordained" when more members understand that women's ordination is indeed Biblical. The General Conference send a woman to Norway who was a very powerful worker setting up churches in Norway (My grandma's aunt was brought into the church by a "Bible Lady" from America, and that could have been either Mrs. White or this other woman.) 

We find in the book of Acts, Paul would raise up churches then often left them in the care of the leading women of the community. The Greek grammar of some of the women, indicate pastoral situations. For example in all but one place of talking about this couple as husband and wife it is Aquila and Priscilla, but 100% of the time as a ministry team it is Priscilla and Aquila. (The one time when as a married couple that it is "Priscilla and Aquila" could well be a copy error since we always find them as a ministerial team as "Priscilla and Aquila.")  It is the same grammar as when first in Acts when Barnabas was in charge it used "Barnabas and Saul" but then when Saul/Paul became the leader it was changed to "Paul and Barnabas." 

The "proof texts" used to say that Paul was against women's ordination would contradict was we read as Paul's practice in Acts and how he uses the terms "Aquila and Priscilla"/"Priscilla and Aquila" and have contextual situations that support a different understanding than his being against women's ordination. 

If you don't like Paul's practice and grammar, also check the actions of Jesus. Around AD 200 on, the Jewish tradition, until modern years, Rabbis were only men and not open to women. We take what happened then and read it back in history. But historically this was the end of about 400 years of debate over women should be rabbis (and in early years even priests).  The earlier Jewish tradition the rabbi (and arguments that I don't fully understand to share, even priests) could be either a man or a woman. The liberal schools, such as the school of Hillel, wanted to STOP women's ordination, while the more conservative schools, such as the school of Shammai wanted to CONTINE women's ordination. It is interesting in seeing how they ordained and compare to what Jesus said and did.

[phkrause]

Kevin did you have a problem posting today?

[Hanseng]

1 hour ago, Kevin H said:

The "proof texts"

Kevin, In a previous post, I offered passages from Timothy and Titus. These passages were detailing the qualifications of a bishop/overseer.

The passage in Timothy describes qualifications of an overseer and a deacon. In both cases, the man's roll as head of household is listed as a qualification. In both cases, the deacon/overseer is described as one who rules his family well, having his children in subjection. Paul reasons that if a man cannot rule his family, he won't be able to rule a church.

I'd like to see the passages in Acts which indicate that Paul appointed female overseers to rule the churches he established.

Your appeal to the Greek grammar, in view of the plain declarations in Timothy and Titus, appear desperate. I often referred to my Mom and Dad. There was never any doubt that my Dad ruled our home.

 

[Hanseng]

4 hours ago, Kevin H said:

For example in all but one place of talking about this couple as husband and wife it is Aquila and Priscilla, but 100% of the time as a ministry team it is Priscilla and Aquila. (The one time when as a married couple that it is "Priscilla and Aquila" could well be a copy error since we always find them as a ministerial team as "Priscilla and Aquila.")

Here is every mention of Aquila: 

 Ac 18:2  And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.

Ac 18:18  And Paul [after this] tarried [there] yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn [his] head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.

Ac 18:26  And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto [them], and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Ro 16:3  Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

1Co 16:19  The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

2Ti 4:19  Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.

At least two passages, not one, refer to Aquila and Priscilla as a ministry team--Acts 18:26, 1 Co. 16:19. Acts 18:26, however, is ambiguous, depending on which version/ text you are using. Acts 18:2 speaks of Aquila and his wife, indicating that he was head of the house. I've seen women gospel workers leading their husbands around like a little puppy. It's not a good look.

I'm not "against" women's ordination. What denominational entities do is their own business. I am "for" responsible interpretation of Scripture.

[Hanseng]

SBC Disfellowships 2 Churches at February Executive Committee Meeting for Appointing Women as Pastors

 

What the Disfellowship of Saddleback Church from the SBC Really Means | Christian Research Network

[Gustave]

I fail to see why there is such opposition to W.O. in the SDA Church - this seems to be an extremely small potato type of thing compared to the SDA required belief that Christ could have sinned, lost his salvation and have become as if he never existed. It stuns me that W.O. creates such a passion within SDA people but the teaching that God is 3 separate beings that could, if it came to it, be eternally reduced to 1 or 2 beings doesn't even come up for discussion unless someone outside the organization brings it up.