The Rebellion of Women

[Hanseng]

It started in Eden. Documented there. Paul comments on the fall in 2 Timothy, noting that woman was derived from man, that she was first deceived; consequently, she is not to teach or usurp authority over man. That expression "usurp authority" is based upon a word which referred to murdering someone or suicide. Lexicographers also say it refers to acting in an autocratic way. Sounds like a very strong word, referring to a murderer or suicide, yet this is the word the Bible uses in reference to the fall and the roll of women. Even so, administrators, want to hand over authority to women. They don't need to usurp it. Men are giving it to them, not unlike Adam who just went along with Eve, essentially handing his authority in the garden over to a rebel. Paul lays the blame for the fall on Eve, saying Adam was not in the transgression.

This is somewhat inconvenient for SDA, whose spiritual head has been more or less, a woman, Ellen G. White. Interestingly, some SDA scholars admit that the IJ doctrine cannot be derived from Scripture, yet they accept it because Sr. White says its true. True or not, if a man doesn't believe its biblical, accepting it on the basis of "Sr. White says" is handing authority to her, abrogating his own roll in defining faith. Perilous path to take.

 

[Hanseng]

Ge 3:16  To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

This verse rests between the curses upon the serpent and the curses upon Adam. Pain in childbirth and submission to the husband are the curses placed upon Eve in Eden for her transgression.

One wonders what would/could have happened had Adam chose to not sin?

Possibilities: The entire world would not have fallen. Eve would have died and a new wife created. Atonement would have been made for her sin alone. Eve brought unimaginable trouble into this world through her sin. Paul does not count the fall to Adam in 1 Timothy but to Eve. Eve was deceived by the serpent, not Adam.

Correction to post above. The passage is from 1 Timothy 3 11-15.

 

[Gustave]

Spoken as a fabulous Muslim. 

Quote

Sunnah: Sahih al-Bukhari:

On `Id ul Fitr or `Id ul Adha Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray."

Sahih al-Bukhari 1462 - Obligatory Charity Tax (Zakat) - كتاب الزكاة - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

[Gregory Matthews]

Yes. the SDA denomlination whilch on some levels rejects women lin ministry  has a co-folunder who is a female!  [NOTE:  On other levels of the SDA denomination women aare fully accepted in ministry. ]  The public at large fails to understand this incostent reality.  That is a valid point.  Elen White was issued the credentials of an ordained minister, for a number of years.  No, she did not pastor a SDA Church as she ministered to the denomlination as a whole.  We have many men in administration who are considered clery and do not pastor SDA congregations.

[Hanseng]

2 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Ellen White was issued the credentials of an ordained minister, for a number of years.  No, she did not pastor an SDA Church as she ministered to the denomination as a whole. 

That's very true, Chaplain Matthews. That is not the situation facing the denomination today.  Women are being given pastoral positions, i.e., overseeing congregations. This happens even though the congregation itself, or a large number of the members, do not want a female pastor. Years ago, there was a YouTube video of an interview with a young woman who was placed over a congregation. Half the congregation stopped attending. She cried as she described what happened. This is DEI at work in the denomination. The video was only up a short time.

 

 

[Hanseng]

1Co 14:34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience <5293>, as also saith the law.

Eph 5:22  Wives, submit yourselves <5293> unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Eph 5:24  Therefore as the church is subject <5293> unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

1 Pe. 3:1 ¶  Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2  While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear.
3  Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4  But [let it be] the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, [even the ornament] of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5  For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7  Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Titus 2:3  The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4  That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5  [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
 

[Asia Joe]

1 hour ago, Hanseng said:

ears ago, there was a YouTube video of an interview with a young woman who was placed over a congregation. Half the congregation stopped attending. She cried as she described what happened. This is DEI at work in the denomination. The video was only up a short time.

 

I remember that video. 

[Asia Joe]

Well as an old man, I have seen the change in American women. They have been fighting American men for 30-40 years. That fight has spilled into the church. Women's attitude toward men has changed completely in that time. 

I am not surprised by their need to assert themselves in the church. 

[Asia Joe]

There are two YouTube channels by some younger guys. They look like late twenty or early thirties. Their channels are about the christian church and how they have driven the men out.  How the church has been feminized. It seems to me that they are talking about mainline Baptists, but the things they say can also apply to Adventist's.

Although even the Baptists will not allow Ordained women.  Imagine that. A day when the Baptists are more strict than the Adventist's.

 

[Hanseng]

Women in The Church (III) - LCMS

[Hanseng]

A central issue is tithing. Many people have been taught that we are obliged to tithe to avoid the curse of Malachi 3. Our responsibility is to tithe; then it is the responsibility of the conference to handle the tithe. We were taught to trust God  to see that the tithe is responsibly dispersed. If the conference decides to use the money to pay women  or homosexuals to pastor churches, it is not our problem. What the administration decides is what God wants, more or less. As long as we give, we are OK, so we are taught. I guess anyone foolish enough to believe that would be fine having a female or homosexual pastor.

Concordia Seminary, St. Louis does not admit women into the ministerial track. They can become deaconesses, not pastors. If I remember correctly one of the rationales for admitting women into the pastorate was that the SDA seminary had taken their money for professional training. It would be unjust to deprive them of the opportunity to use the education they paid for. Midwestern Baptist seminary has an MDiv program for women; however, it plainly states that this cannot lead to a pastoral position The SDA denomination has simply been poorly managed or cleverly so, on this issue. These t wo major denominations  recognize what SDA do not.  Women should not be overseers of congregations