CoAspen Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Some how, many people still seem to think celibate gay people are something less that a true christian. Well folks, please stop defining your own brand of Christianity, as being the correct one. Throughing in some Bible texts, out of context normally, and then making pronouncements about just following the Bible, don't get it right. Don't go down the 'practicing sin' road either, we all make a conscious choice in what ever we do, so we are still 'practicing'...we have not been forced and only have out selves to blame. Still don't know whether the majority of christians understand what Christ being our advocate against the accusers really means. Very sad. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 2 hours ago, CoAspen said: Some how, many people still seem to think celibate gay people are something less that a true christian. Well folks, please stop defining your own brand of Christianity, as being the correct one. Throughing in some Bible texts, out of context normally, and then making pronouncements about just following the Bible, don't get it right. Don't go down the 'practicing sin' road either, we all make a conscious choice in what ever we do, so we are still 'practicing'...we have not been forced and only have out selves to blame. Still don't know whether the majority of christians understand what Christ being our advocate against the accusers really means. Very sad. This will help you out. Especially as it says at the beginning that it's the Revelation of Jesus Christ, all without cherry picking and within context according to His Word.Enjoy at your leisure, that you might find joy. 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John. 2 who testified to the Word of God and to the testimony of Jesus, even to all that he saw. 3Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near......Revelation 1 …9Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he said to me, "These are true words of God." 10Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus, worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19 God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 I met this very tender man on fb..he has a book coming out and a beautiful artist. I am very discouraged. I am afraid my Church will never get it. Thanku CoAspen. Again. A personal note from Morris Taylor Posted on March 16, 2014 by Morris L. Taylor For the first time ever I am sharing watercolors I painted during the month of what would have been my son Leonard’s 50th birthday. The ten original works depict a life well lived. I am proud of my son. Those who view these images are invited to respond to the tragedy of a life cut short by suicide. The pressure of dealing with his homosexuality in a fundamentalist religious environment figured prominently into the decade leading up to his mental break. Futile attempts at reparative therapy, sponsored by the Seventh-day Adventist Denomination, contributed to his agony and demise. See the ten pictures in the main section of this web site. This pictorial essay encourages individuals to contemplate the relationship between sexuality and spirituality, between doctrine and grace, and between bigotry and acceptance. A year before his death I said to my son Leonard, “I am more like you than you will ever know.” Little did I realize that he would be dead before I could share with him the truth about my own homosexuality. I do know that I loved him and that he felt my love. Now through these paintings I witness to my truth. The Creator endowed me with my unique personhood which is real, valid and spiritual. All who thoughtfully want to know about persons with alternative sexuality may use these deeply private glimpses into my family life in a respectful manner. In return I promise to respect you just as you are. I am available for serious conversation. At age 83 I am comfortable with who I am and pleased to share my journey. Comments are welcomed at the bottom of this page and I will respond to all who post a comment. Morris Taylor Web site: http://www.morristaylor.net E mail: morris at morristaylor dot net https://leonardmorristaylor.wordpress.com/ Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 LHC, you continue to post what ever. Your reply has nothing to do with what I said or the topic. Sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 9 hours ago, jackson said: Co Aspen, I haven't heard the term "Celibate gay people" before. Perhaps I am out of touch, but what does that mean? Correct me if i am off base, but does it mean one is a Christian that is still gay at heart but not practicing his inclinations? Or does it mean that one was once gay but is now a Christian and by the grace of God is free from such inclinations? I do hope it refers to the latter. Jackson, Hello! I say this very kindly and very directly. You as a christian give another example of somehow some way how gay Christians are inferior. The gay who becomes straight is somehow better or much preferred by the Body of Christ than the Gay Christian who does nor become straight. I'm sure you don't mean too. But thank you for making my point since I arrived on SDA Internet Site. I have been saying this in a many ways and from many angles. And I just a get poo slinging for it. From their source. It adds to the fear and ignorance and self loathing to the LGBTIQQAAP Community as well as the Church. Gay reparative therapy does not work. And I said somewhere else One of the biggest Evils the Church propagates is that Many think heterosexual Christians are one step closer Spiritually to GOD and Homosexual Christians are one (or twelve?) further from GOD. I see it everywhere and it is not acknowledged or even understood. And the worst of it ..IT Blocked JESUS from view in the precious much loved by GOD LGBTIQQAAP real People. They see no hope. Much of it unintentional. I understand. We are all doing the best we can with what info we have. I love honesty above all else. So keep sharing and I will listen in. May the Joy of the LORD ..Be your Strength! 16 hours ago, CoAspen said: Some how, many people still seem to think celibate gay people are something less that a true christian. Well folks, please stop defining your own brand of Christianity, as being the correct one. Throughing in some Bible texts, out of context normally, and then making pronouncements about just following the Bible, don't get it right. Don't go down the 'practicing sin' road either, we all make a conscious choice in what ever we do, so we are still 'practicing'...we have not been forced and only have out selves to blame. Still don't know whether the majority of christians understand what Christ being our advocate against the accusers really means. Very sad. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 11 hours ago, jackson said: Co Aspen, I haven't heard the term "Celibate gay people" before. Perhaps I am out of touch, but what does that mean? Correct me if i am off base, but does it mean one is a Christian that is still gay at heart but not practicing his inclinations? Or does it mean that one was once gay but is now a Christian and by the grace of God is free from such inclinations? I do hope it refers to the latter. Looking back on my post ..I could have said it better. Let me try again.. Jackson, You thoughts expressed above ^ is very common and I very much understand and believed the same for many years. ............................................................................... And I also want to add ... I don't think CoAspen minds me weighing in on a good question you ask of him. (i could be wrong ..please forgive me) About one of the aspects of celibacy... In many Gay Christian Circles some identify with the verse posted below. Jesus says: Math 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." They use it not as a medical term of going under the knife..but as mortifying their flesh by faith. It is something the Church cannot lord over but celibacy is given to whom it is given. I Cor 7:7-9 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. Not all have that gift..which many male Christians here can echo.. "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." it cannot be dictated Again! Jackson, May the Joy of the Lord be your Strength! P.S. not all Gay Christians believe a Christian Monogamous intimate relationship is Evil..some are learning getting a Different Picture of GOD as seen in JESUS walk and talk.l Some figured that out along time ago. as expressed on many posts.articles in this thread. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 If someone does not know the meaning of celibate or know how to look up the meaning....well......probably not much need to say anything further. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted December 17, 2015 Members Share Posted December 17, 2015 17 hours ago, jackson said: Co Aspen, I haven't heard the term "Celibate gay people" before. Perhaps I am out of touch, but what does that mean? Correct me if i am off base, but does it mean one is a Christian that is still gay at heart but not practicing his inclinations? Or does it mean that one was once gay but is now a Christian and by the grace of God is free from such inclinations? I do hope it refers to the latter. I'm not CoA, but the term "celibate gay people" means that people who are gay are choosing not to engage in sexual activity. It is a "choice" that they are making. It doesn't matter whether they are Christian or Buddhist or pagan or atheist. It simply means they have made a choice not to engage in sexual relations. It can be for religious reasons or health reasons or other personal reasons. Whatever the reason(s) is not really anyone else's business, imho. CoAspen and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Each one of us have our own struggles. Not everyone gets up in the morning with number one on a to do list of hammering at everyone that disagrees with their lifestyle what ever it might be. It isn't being gay,it isn't whether someone lives a celibate lifestyle,or whether they live a homosexual lifestyle. It is the constant denigrating those that believe that lifestyle is unbiblical. Not seen as maybe holy,or that biblical scholars will come along and inform us God didn't really mean what he said. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 cel·i·bate [sel-uh-bit, -beyt] NOUN 1. a person who abstains from sexual relations. Doesn't change meaning when attached to hetero, bi, homo or any other word a person can come up with. The definition stands on its own. When one say they haven't heard the word 'celibate gay people', I simply do not believe it. Makes me think it will be an arguing point. There is nothing to argue about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 1 hour ago, rudywoofs said: I'm not CoA, but the term "celibate gay people" means that people who are gay are choosing not to engage in sexual activity. It is a "choice" that they are making. It doesn't matter whether they are Christian or Buddhist or pagan or atheist. It simply means they have made a choice not to engage in sexual relations. It can be for religious reasons or health reasons or other personal reasons. Whatever the reason(s) is not really anyone else's business, imho. 4 minutes ago, CoAspen said: cel·i·bate [sel-uh-bit, -beyt] NOUN 1. a person who abstains from sexual relations. Doesn't change meaning when attached to hetero, bi, homo or any other word a person can come up with. The definition stands on its own. When one say they haven't heard the word 'celibate gay people', I simply do not believe it. Makes me think it will be an arguing point. There is nothing to argue about. Well ! Looks that we all got that settled about the non existing sex lives! Which is not anyone's business. It is something volunteered to share not expected to share. Esp over Fellowship Dinner! My goodness! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted December 19, 2015 Members Share Posted December 19, 2015 3 minutes ago, jackson said: My question was not what being a celibate gay meant, but rather what being a celibate gay Christian meant , I asked what was the motivation for the celibacy. If one has come to Jesus for help in overcoming homosexual actions and desires and through sincere repentance with God's grace has turned from such acts and desires , seeing them as sinful and an abomination in God's sight, then if he is washed clean by the blood of the lamb. He is no longer a homosexual, but rather a child of God and a Christian- not a gay Christian. Calling someone a "gay Christian is an insult to the power of God's grace. Though I know many don't want to acknowledge it, the fact is that many (not all) gays are born with the propensity towards homosexuality, iow, they are "gay"... That's a scientific fact. Though the term "gay Christian" might be an affront to some straight people, it really is a personal preference if a gay person who happens to be Christian wants to use it. It doesn't affect anyone else's faith....at least, it shouldn't. I used to be quite a vigilante for what I thought was "proper" Christianity. I expected people to toe the line, be ultra conservative, and, in short, behave the way I thought God wanted them to behave. Someone who called himself a "gay Christian" probably would have gotten an earful of snarkiness from me, as being "gay" meant the person was obviously *not* a Christian. That's not what Christianity is all about. It's about treating others as you would want to be treated. It's about trying to understand someone else's POV, instead of assuming your POV is equal to God's POV. We aren't God's mouthpiece, nor do we have His perfect understanding of people. The best we can do is to be and to act as we think we should, and to be more concerned with minding our own business rather than urging others to conform to *our* concept of Christianity. Tom Wetmore, Gail and GayatfootofCross 3 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 21 minutes ago, jackson said: Rudywoofs, Co aspen said," Some how, many people still seem to think celibate gay people are something less that a true Christian" My question was not what being a celibate gay meant, but rather what being a celibate gay Christian meant , I asked what was the motivation for the celibacy. If one has come to Jesus for help in overcoming homosexual actions and desires and through sincere repentance with God's grace has turned from such acts and desires , seeing them as sinful and an abomination in God's sight, then if he is washed clean by the blood of the lamb. He is no longer a homosexual, but rather a child of God and a Christian- not a gay Christian. Calling someone a "gay Christian is an insult to the power of God's grace. Lifehiscost in an earlier post made a valid point . He , at one time had murderous intent in his heart, but, through repentance, had turned to Christ and was washed clean from such desires.. He was now not to be known as a "murderous Christian", and neither are adulterers who have been healed by Christ to be known as "adulterous Christians". The reason why a gay, is celibate has everything to do with his salvation Hi Jackson! Always nice to see you. Let me start by saying that Being a Gay Person is not any more of a sin than being a Straight Person. A gay Person becoming a Christian does nor automatically become straight. "tada! i like the ladies now! oh you hoo.. Can i marry your daughter now?" And heterosexuality is not Sainthood to boot! I thank you that you for stating your understanding of it. And motivation for celibacy? It depends on who you are talking about. And how close and deep do you want to open up and share mutually on such a private matter. Don't know if you have someone in mind.. But it is probably none of your business. Any more than your sex life is none of our business. May the Joy of the Lord be your Strength! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 So, according to you, being a homosexual is a sin and that person is lost even if they are hidden off in some cave or alone on a Mtn top. According to you God will change their DNA. Wow, why doesn't God change the DNA of all those cancer victims when they ask God? A pick and choose God, or just your interpretation of the Bible? One of the least talked about subjects in the Bible and yet so much time is spent condemning even while Christ Himself is writing in the dust....let him without sin casts the first stone. I would suggest people search their own hearts before condemning others struggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted December 21, 2015 Members Share Posted December 21, 2015 Jackson, it's one thing to gently try to lead sinners to Christ. It's a different thing to nag and tell someone that unless they come to Christ in the precise manner you prescribe, they will go to hell. And it's whole 'nother ball of wax to *assume* someone is not a Christian based on a one-sided, myopic, cyber view of that individual, and then to condemn his or her personal life as being unsatisfactory to God. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 42 minutes ago, rudywoofs said: It's a different thing to ... tell someone that unless they come to Christ.... they will go to hell. And ..... then to condemn ...... …46"I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. 47"If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.…John 12 God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 6 hours ago, jackson said: GAFOC, forget what science, your friends, society in general or others on this website are telling you, Just go study the word of God. I don't want you to be lost and you will be if you don't put the word of God first in your life. Jackson, We don't know a thing about each other. And your concern is very kind and touching. I want you to know something very personal about me... I didn't choose to be gay.. But I did choose JESUS CHRIST as my Lord and Savior. It is Him who wooed me from my past life. And let me share a bit more... I stopped holding God hostage for what others and I thought he was supposed to do for me. I will trust Him anyway!. His Grace has been sufficient.. # We both are Fearfully and Wonderfully made May the Joy of the Lord Be your Strength! Gail 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 and thanku ... 3 hours ago, rudywoofs said: Jackson, it's one thing to gently try to lead sinners to Christ. It's a different thing to nag and tell someone that unless they come to Christ in the precise manner you prescribe, they will go to hell. And it's whole 'nother ball of wax to *assume* someone is not a Christian based on a one-sided, myopic, cyber view of that individual, and then to condemn his or her personal life as being unsatisfactory to God. 6 hours ago, CoAspen said: So, according to you, being a homosexual is a sin and that person is lost even if they are hidden off in some cave or alone on a Mtn top. According to you God will change their DNA. Wow, why doesn't God change the DNA of all those cancer victims when they ask God? A pick and choose God, or just your interpretation of the Bible? One of the least talked about subjects in the Bible and yet so much time is spent condemning even while Christ Himself is writing in the dust....let him without sin casts the first stone. I would suggest people search their own hearts before condemning others struggles. I feel the love n understanding! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 According to the above post, someone does not understand their Bible....jus sayin....cause that means everything that someone is or has or does, etc, etc, etc is a sin to you. Being sick is a sin using your thinking meaning that having cancer is a sin and praying about will get a cure!! The Bible talks about homosexual activity being a sin, not the person. Of course, those who are in to sin divining are blind to that. Very convenient. Me thinks there is something more to that perception than meets the eye. Adios!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 1 hour ago, jackson said: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phil 2:5 Hi again Jackson! This scripture you share I also share with you! in Christ Jesus I have been redeemed and he put one opinion in my heart about you. You are very much loved and He is saving you and for me to treat you like Gold. As I've said.. We truly don't know each other..but .... but ..JESUS does! May the Joy of the Lord be your Strength! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 It is a wonderful thing.... Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 oopsie.. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/18/most-u-s-christian-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/ft_15-12-15_homosexualitychristian/ Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 http://chriskratzer.com/what-if-youre-wrong-a-question-for-every-anti-gay-person-pastor-father-mother-friend/ What if you’re Wrong? A Question for Every Anti-Gay Person, Pastor, Father, Mother, Friend. Posted on October 2, 2015 by ckratzer So, you believe homosexuality is a sin, whether it be in practice, orientation, or both. Maybe you have studied the issue, or just assimilated the beliefs heard from others. If you have become familiar with any or all of the six passages in the Bible that seem to specifically address the issue, you interpret them as condemnations against homosexuality and proof that God declares it all as sin. From that belief, your actions and attitudes have formed. Perhaps you have adopted a posture that concludes the most faithful response to this issue is to “hate the sin and love the sinner.” It feels spiritual and gracious to you. Maybe you are even willing to go so far as to conclude for yourself and underscore to others an understanding that the sin of homosexuality is no greater than your’s or any other’s. Therefore, in your mind, homosexuals aren’t necessarily better or worse than you, just different in their sinning. In your church, family, or community they may even be, not only welcome, but wanted. Yet, at the end of the day, their homosexuality is seen as a sin problem nonetheless. Jesus died for “them,” just like He died for you. On the other hand, maybe you hate homosexuals and have no restraint in saying so with all the lingual colors afforded you. Confident in your biblical grooming, you may even assert that homosexuality is a special kind of sin, more sinful than any other. To you, all homosexuals are self-declared exclusively by choice. You may or may not, out of the kindness of your Christian heart, allow them in your presence or fellowship, but they are at best, a deplorable kind of abomination in your sight, and less than qualify for any kind of harbor, inclusion, or acceptance in your church, family, or community. With your Bible in hand, and perhaps a picket sign or two, you declare in either speech or action, “God hates fags” and therefore, deep down, at some level or another, so do you. Wherever you are on the spectrum of response, at the end of the day, in your judgement, homosexuality is a sin, it’s never acceptable to God nor is it ever His will or within His design. Therefore, “repentance” is ultimately the only answer, whether empowered by Grace or Law or some mixture thereof… change, confess, move away from sin, apply the power of Jesus to overcome, turn or burn… however you want to put it …that’s the answer, that’s the cure. Until then, there is still a “problem,” an “issue,” an “abnormality,” a “sin.” My question for you is… what if you’re wrong? I know, it’s all so clear to you. The biblical texts, the studies, the nature of it all. But, what if you’re wrong? What if it’s not so clear, the studies not so definitive, the unnatural not so unnatural. What if you’re wrong, like Paul in Scripture, who actually believed it was “unnatural” for the Gentiles to accept Christ and be included in the fellowship of believers? By the way, you know who the Gentiles are? You. What if you’re wrong, like countless Christians throughout history who read your same Bible and vehemently concluded its support for racism and slavery? What if you’re wrong, like court reporters and clerks in the 1960’s who, citing Biblical grounds, refused to document and issue interracial marriage certificates because they believed them to be committing sin? What if you are wrong, like the Southern Baptist denomination, who finally in 1995, apologized to the black community for its role in using the Bible to endorse racism and slavery? What if you are wrong, like the Pharisees, who believed they knew and lived the Scriptures better than anyone, but were shown out by Jesus to not only be in biblical error, but completing absent of understanding in regards to His heart and essence? I mean, just imagine if Hitler had only considered, “maybe I am wrong about the Jews” Imagine if the Christian theologian John Calvin had only considered, “maybe I didn’t read this text right?” before brutally burning one of his critics to death, all in the name of biblical faithfulness mind you. Imagine, just imagine. Imagine, if you’re wrong about homosexuality and homosexuals. What if ignorance has eclipsed your understanding, not unlike the kind Hosea spoke of as the prime destroyer of people? What if mistranslation, proof texting, and a lack of proper contextualization has rendered the Scripture as saying that which God never meant it to? What if your unyielding grip on inerrancy has become in fact, your own spiritual death hold? What if your fear of being wrong and therefore having to deconstruct and rebuild one’s heart, mind, and faith is preventing you from the guidance of the Spirit? What if peer pressure and the gravity to conform to the prevailing Christian “norm” is squelching the wind of Jesus from His revelation in and transformation of your life? What if homosexuality isn’t a sin, and now you don’t have a “sin” that you are confident can never and will never apply to you from which to comfortably condemn others and drink from the intoxicating chalice of self-righteousness that medicates your own inner shame, insecurity, condemnation, and guilt? What if, like your heterosexuality, it’s not a choice, any more than the color of your eyes? What if… you’re wrong? If I am wrong, the Holy Spirit will simply pursue me with correction, go around and ahead me to thwart the misleading, and work in the lives of homosexuals to lead them to “repentance.” However, if you’re wrong… You have condemned, marginalized, persecuted, and falsely judged an entire group of God-imaged people. You have labeled as sin, that which is not. Some of you have disowned your own children. Labeling them, casting them out. While God declares “I will never leave you nor forsake you” you have abandoned, or at best, distanced yourself from that which God purposed you to forever enwrap. You have put barbed-wire fences where God meant for tables. You have been a contributor to the depression, the isolation, the terror, the suicide, and the living hell of countless people. You have participated in nothing less than the new racism of the 21st Century. And worst of all, you have joined the choir of the False Accuser, singing songs of pure evil, believing them to be hymns of the Savior that reflect His heart and mind. You have partnered with Satan in the stealing, killing, and destroying of an entire population of God’s beloved. …all, in the name of Jesus and biblical faithfulness. Honestly, I am o.k. if somehow it turns out I’m wrong. My question for you is, how can you ever be o.k. with the possibility… you are? Femster 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 I don't agree with every lil thing this guy says below and even a conclusion or two ... but the above post i whole heartedly hear very deeply cause of my experiences as well as friends in or out of Church. But much of this can stand up to scrutiny if understood rightly the Male Domination Culture of the Time (and even now it seems) and the evil biases and ignorance of original Hebrew and Greek that has been around since Antiquity And I would add much much more to the post that personally helps me in my understanding of the matter close to my heart .. one example here http://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/62910-a-god-of-concessions-divorce-etclistislong/ and yet another http://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/59810-when-i-hear-the-story-of-sodom/#comment-673617 May the Joy of the Lord be your Strength! A Six-Pack of Biblical Gay Affirmation : The Clobber Passages Revisited Posted on December 6, 2015 by ckratzer In the biblical book of Hosea, chapter four, the writer experiences God speaking, “My people are being destroyed from a lack of knowledge.” It’s interesting to me that God doesn’t say, “Hey, you know what? It’s because of sin that you’re being destroyed.” The text doesn’t even say it’s because of temptation, not even because of Beyonce’. No, the writer experiences God declaring, “it’s all about your ignorance.” Interesting, very interesting. So here we are with the issue of homosexuality. No surprise, this is a topic that has been baked in a good bit of ignorance. And I, once a willing cook in the kitchen of bad theology, and even worse… bigotry. That all changed, however, when I revisited the Bible with a new heart, and with new experience and information. I pray that process happens for you. There are a mere six passages in the Bible that specifically deal with the issue of homosexuality. I’m going to deal with five of them; line by line, verse by verse. One passage is basically a repeat of another (Lev. 18:22, 20:13). Some people call these verses the six “clobber” passages because people use them to clobber homosexuals and homosexuality declaring, “See, it’s clear as day, black and white. God hates homosexual. Homosexuals are sinners. They’re all going to fry in hell.” Good times for sure. Yet, the very passages so many want to use to condemn homosexuality, I believe are actually a six-pack of biblical, gay affirmation. Yup, a six-pack of heaven-crafted, delicious, biblical gay affirmation. Intoxicating, with God-authored freedom and validation. Detoxifying, with truth and fresh revelation. So, belly on up and drink it in… Bottle One : Sodom and Gomorrah Summer Ale Genesis 19. It’s a sad story. A story about a guy named Lot. There’s a backdrop to this. Lot is Abraham’s nephew, and Abraham and Lot became very successful. They acquire all kinds of cattle, herds, and people. Bucket loads of stuff. Soon, they realize that sticking together was getting to be too complicated. Running into each other, conflicts emerged. So, Abraham spoke up one day and said “Listen Lot, we need to go different directions here. I love you, but we’re just on top of each other.” Abraham, being a humble guy, continues “Look at the horizon Lot, pick a spot. You go there, and I’ll take what’s left.” Lot gazes his eyes upon the cities of the plains, which are Sodom and Gomorrah. Soon after, he enters into Sodom and Gomorrah and quickly realizes it’s a pretty nasty place. The people are clearly in significant violation of some of the most important ethical and moral issues of that Hebraic context… hospitality, gluttony, and arrogance. About this same time, God visits Abraham and whispers, “Hey Abe, I need to clue you in a bit about something that I’m probably going to be doing here. That city, where Lot is hanging out, their lack of hospitality, all their arrogance and self-centeredness. I’ve got to end this thing.” Abraham responds, “Hey God, could you hold off here, give Lot a heads up?” After some discourse, they finally come to an agreement where God sends a couple angels into Sodom and Gomorrah to let Lot know what’s about to happen. That’s where we pick up the story… “That evening the two angels arrived in Sodom, while Lot was sitting near the city gate. When Lot saw them, he got up, bowed down low, 2 and said “Gentlemen, I am your servant. Please come to my home. You can wash your feet, spend the night, and be on your way in the morning.” Right off the bat, a big deal to the Hebrew moral code was the issue of hospitality. Probably the most important, ethical issue of the day. Lot is trying to honor this tenant . They told him, “No, we’ll spend the night in the city square.” 3 But Lot kept insisting, until they finally agreed and went home with him. He baked some bread, cooked a meal, and they ate. 4 Before Lot and his guests could go to bed, every man in Sodom, young and old, came and stood outside his house 5 and started shouting, “Where are your visitors? Send them out, so we can have sex with them!” Did you read it… “Every man in Sodom?” Now let’s just use our brains for a second. You can be sure “every man” was not homosexual in orientation. Our national percentage here in modern 2015 is less than two percent. But this isn’t about percentages, this isn’t about homosexuality, this isn’t about heterosexuality, it’s about something much larger. Read the text, this isn’t an invitation to engage in mutual, consensual sex. No, this is all about one thing, and one thing only… gang rape. “6 Lot went outside and shut the door behind him. 7 Then he said, “Friends, please don’t do such a terrible thing!” A “terrible” thing? Why is this terrible? Because this has nothing to do with consensual sex, or even sex at all. It has everything to do with malicious, victimizing, violent rape. That’s why. 8 I have two daughters who have never been married. I’ll bring them out, and you can do what you want with them. But don’t harm these men. They are guests in my home.” It’s so amazing to me what we have done with this story. Somehow, we have made it all about homosexuality, which it is not, and overlooked the obvious corruption of Lot, who is willing to hand over his two daughters to be gang raped. Are you kidding me? Handing your daughters over to be gang raped? Sadly, when people typically think of Sodom and Gomorrah, they never think about that. In fact, when Lot and his daughters depart out of the city, they decide to repay their father and rape him. Nice, right? Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth… rape for rape. See, this is not about homosexuality, this is about harm. This is about rape, this is about sexual violence. The evil aggression is dripping off the pages… 9 “Don’t get in our way,” the crowd answered. “You’re an outsider. What right do you have to order us around? We’ll do worse things to you than we’re going to do to them.” Here again, these violent demands to commit violent rape are coming from all the men of Sodom, not the gay community. And certainly, this is not a consensual arrangement being desired. No chance, no way. “The crowd kept arguing with Lot. Finally, they rushed toward the door to break it down.10 But the two angels in the house reached out and pulled Lot safely inside. 11 Then they struck everyone in the crowd blind, and none of them could even find the door. 12-13 The two angels said to Lot, “The Lord has heard many terrible things about the people of Sodom, and he has sent us here to destroy the city. Take your family and leave. Take every relative you have in the city, as well as the men your daughters are going to marry.” For God, when He hears the name Sodom, He has an entire list of “terrible things” in mind. Yet, interestingly, on that list is not homosexuality. In fact, Ezekiel 16:49 declares, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” “Overfed,” are you kidding me? We Christians, who for many of us, our favorite past time is to stuff our faces at the local Golden Corral to the point of chosen obesity after Sunday morning preaching. Seriously? We are looking for a condemnation of homosexuality in this passage that just isn’t there, while completely turning a blind eye to the “overfed” sin that God makes clear is certainly there. This is not a text about homosexuality, especially homosexual orientation. This is passage about the condemnation of violent sexual behavior. A condemnation of evil, father-daughter relationships. This is a story about the breaking of strict, cultural rules of hospitality. That’s the context, that’s the issue. Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, when Jesus spoke of Sodom and Gomorrah, He did so to the disciples stating that if one goes into a town and people don’t receive them into their homes, it would be better for Sodom and Gomorrah on that day of judgment than it will be for the inhospitable. When Jesus, four times in the Gospels contextualizes the issue of Sodom and Gomorrah, He never mentions homosexuality. Rather, over and over again, He highlights the critical issue of hospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were not homosexually orientated, loving men. They were men who gathered outside Lot’s door, leaving their natural, heterosexual orientation to rape people as an act of humiliation and emasculation. This a story of deviant heterosexual males who were hell-bent on humiliating strangers by treating them as women. The evil desires of those men had nothing to do with genuine love being expressed between members of the same sex. Dr. Richard Haynes of Duke University, who is actually anti-gay, says the following… “The Sodom story is actually irrelevant to the topic of homosexuality. The attempted gang rape in Genesis 19 shows the depravity of the Canaanite people who lived in the cities of the plain but there is nothing in the passage pertinent to a judgment about the morality of consensual homosexual intercourse.” Dr. Richard Hayes –Duke University Bottle Two : Leviticus Lager of 18:22 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female: it is an abomination.” Leviticus 18:22 So here we are in Leviticus. Don’t be afraid, drink it in… The scholarship yields overwhelming, affirming evidence. The biblical, ancient, near Eastern context, as best we can investigate, was not familiar in any way shape or form with homosexuality in the sense of a defined sexual orientation a person embodies intrinsically. In the biblical assertion that “a man shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman” the disapproving assumption was, a man would leave his natural attraction towards a woman and emasculate another man. Here again, this text is about a forced act of humiliation and revenge. Not homosexuality. In fact, there is am entire holiness code at play here. If you keep reading further in Leviticus, (most stop after reading this singular verse) not only is the act of “a male lying with a male as with a woman” articulated as unorthodox, but all sexual acts that do not lead to procreation are declared an abomination. Ruh, roh Scooby. The Hebrew understanding of the time was that the male seed contained everything needed for human life. No knowledge of eggs or ovulation. It was assumed within the culture that a woman only provided the incubating space. This was once an Aristotelian world where he, one of the most brilliant minds of the millennia before Christ, suggested that a male seed exclusively produced a male being. Where did women come from? The same place that malformations came from. Genetic syndromes, those are all cousins to a female. Aristotle suggests that a male produces a male, but sometimes things go awry and a female is born. Folks, this is the context here. And if you take a text out of its context, you can make a con out of the text. To waste of male seed during a menstrual cycle, engage in autoeroticism. All was equivalent to murder because of the wasting of the male seed. Yet, if you still believe this passage is somehow addressing homosexuality, of which Moses and the Leviticus code had no knowledge. It doesn’t even mention female-to-female activity. Why? Here again, homosexuality is not the issue. Moses knew nothing of this, as we do today. In fact, if you believe this Leviticus stuff somehow addresses homosexuality, then you have to believe it all the way. So when later, the Leviticus code dictates that all kinds of like behaviors are punishable with death. Now you are going to have to jump on board with ISIS to align with this interpretive thinking. But, let me suggest, before you start killing all the homosexual people you believe this passage is addressing, you are going to be dead yourself. These same passages forbid many sexual practices and declare them to be punishable by death. Practices that are very likely accepted and practiced by you. Yes, you. One example. If a bride was found not to be a virgin before marriage, you simply brought her parents up on charges, as women were seen as property. She was taken to the city gate and stoned… to death. Now let me ask you, how many homosexual condemning females are out there who have had sex before marriage? How many homosexual condemning husbands are out there whose wives were not virgins at marriage? Need I say more. If you are looking for a condemnation of homosexuality, you are going to have to belly up to a different bar. Drink it in, Leviticus Lager of 18:12. A condemnation of homosexuality? It’s just not there. Bottle Three : Romans Imperial Stout 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Now even if you just skimmed this passage, it’s obvious that within these verses is contained a long list of problems. Yet, many Christians, when they think of Romans 1, conveniently dismiss issues like gossip or slander, or any of the other many behaviors listed. Rather, this passage has become the biggest clobber text of those who desire to condemn one thing and one thing alone… homosexuality as a sin. Yet ironically, Paul does not even begin to indicate the issue of homosexual orientation or homosexuality. We know from history that Paul didn’t have any sense or knowledge of the idea and reality of homosexual orientation. In fact, if you know any gay people, you know that as early as they can remember, they didn’t choose their homosexuality. With tears running down their eyes, they beg to be understood, “Why would I ever choose this, in such a hateful world, why would I ever want to be gay?” Some committing suicide, others dealing with severe depression. The hell that we have brought upon so many with this passage (and others) from Scripture is disgusting at best. Folks, homosexuality isn’t an issue, it’s not a debate, it’s people. Living, breathing people. Beautifully and wonderfully made… gay. No choice, no sin, no different than the color of your skin. Paul had no reference for homosexuality, for homosexual orientation, or for romantic love between two people of the same sex. None. In fact, it was Paul, in a pre-scientific world, that reported he had an experience where he went up into the “third heaven.” Yet, we know now, that reality does not exist. Paul however didn’t, because he had no reference for that. It was a different day, in a different time. Paul once acknowledged… “From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once knew Christ from a human point of view, we know him no longer in that way.” 2 Corinthians 5:16 Paul is admitting that he not only once understood Christ incorrectly, he confesses that he also misunderstood humanity. Am I making a case to discredit Paul? No, but rather showing that contextually, this was a much different time with a much different window to the world. What Paul is doing in this Romans text is simple. He is condemning those with a heterosexual orientation, which came “naturally” to them, who were acting in homosexual ways. The text says plainly and clearly, they “exchanged, gave up.” You can’t exchange or give up what you don’t already have… heterosexuality. Their set, disposed, natural orientation… they exchanged that for homosexual acts. They went beyond their heterosexuality, out of power, hate, anger, or lust and acted homosexually. Paul new nothing of people who for them, “leaving” would mean leaving their natural homosexual attraction to exchange it for heterosexual attraction. I don’t know about you, but I have many gay friends. Some have asked, “Chris, when did you decide to be heterosexual?” “How would you like me to read you Romans 1 and then ask you to exchange your heterosexuality for homosexuality?” “Go over Chris and hold that man’s hand and kiss his lips. Do it, turn the switch, flip it over. And if you can’t, you are the evil, God hater of which this passage is speaking.” In fact, in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul, using the same term “unnatural,” said it was unnatural for a woman to cut her hair and pray without a head covering, and for a man to have long hair. He said it was “unnatural,” the same term he used in Romans 1. Yet, apparently we are very approving of those things now. Paul later said it was “unnatural” that the Gentiles be included in the church. Really? You know who the Gentiles are, don’t you? You and me. With new information, revelation, and experience, Paul realized on several occasions, in regards to some very important spiritual matters, he was wrong. Flat out, wrong. But even if you still believe somehow Paul is condemning homosexuality, you better keep reading. For the point of Romans 1 was to describe the evils of a Roman world. Even calling out an unspoken referencing to people like Gaius Caligula who, along with others, practiced most everything on the list of evils in the text. Additionally, making a reference to the Levitical list Paul’s Jewish audience would have known. Yet, the Romans 1 passage goes on, referring the reader back to this long list of atrocities… “Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.” Romans 2:1-2 Yes, you read it correctly. By our judging of anyone whom we think is on that list, we are actually practicing those very same things. That, my friends, is what you become. Don’t you just hate it when the Bible gets in the way of our self-righteous, condemnation. In fact, there is a real sense that when we ask gay people to leave their natural homosexuality and exchange it for heterosexuality, we are admonishing them to do the very “unnatural” thing this passage declares as evil and terrible. Take a moment, and drink all that in. Bottle Four : Corinthians Chocolate Porter “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals.” -1 Corinthians 6:8 Bottle Five : Saint Timothy IPA “9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.” -1Timothy 1:9-11 The words here in both passages (above) that have been translated as “homosexual’ is the Greek word “arsenokoites.” This is a hard word to translate to say the least. So difficult, that overtime the treatment of this word has moved from translation to interpretation. In fact, this word “arsenokoites” is so complicated that before 1946, no Bible translation had ever translated this word to read “homosexual.” I’ll give you a second to try pick up your jaw. Before 1946, the word “homosexual” was not even in the Bible. No place, no where. Only starting in the mid-20th century, several translations of 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 were changed to read “homosexuals” will not “inherit the kingdom of God.” A clear move from a translation to an interpretation. In fact, the word “homosexual” wasn’t even an actual word until the middle 1800’s. The word “arsenokoites,” many new testament scholars agree, is rarely used even in secular writings, and does not refer to homosexuality, nor even homosexual activity. Martin Luther, the Church reformer, translated these same passages to mean “boy abusers.” He understood “arsenokoites” as a reference to pedophilia. In fact, before 1945, nearly every bible translation interpreted “arsenokoites” as something to do with prostitution, pedophilia, and the like. Even the KJV did not translate “arsenokoites” as homosexuality, but rather in terms of elite, oversexed men abusing themselves with boys, girls, or animals. It was a practice widely accepted by rulers and ruling men of the day. Therefore, through the use of these two passages, Paul is bringing a strong condemnation on primarily elite men, who had never been confronted before, for leaving what is natural to them and sexually abusing just about anything they could find. Primarily, pedophilia. And let me tell you, there is a big difference between pedophilia and homosexuality. If you knew the kind of sexual practices that were going on during Paul’s time in the Greco Roman world, it was disgusting. Old, perverted men were treating boys like pigs. The people of this day didn’t have a heterosexual, homosexual perspective. It wasn’t them over here, and those over there. No, they had a heterosexual context where people exchanged that orientation and used acts of homosexuality to overpower with domination, humiliation, slavery, rape, and temple prostitution. We should all praise God for condemning those deplorable acts, but we have today with homosexuality, is completely and utterly not the same. And because of this, in recent years, many New Testament scholars have been pushing back against these translations. All because this word “arsenokoites” being translated to mean “homosexual” isn’t a translation, it’s a blatant, biased interpretation. Drink it in… Same-sex relationships, based on orientation, between equal-status partners weren’t on the radar screen at all. Neither the word “homosexual” nor the concept it represents existed when the Bible was written. It is high time we recognize, like Paul and others were willing to do so, we got it wrong. “My people are being destroyed from a lack of knowledge.” Hosea 4:6 Drink it in, drink it all in… Sodom and Gomorrah Summer Ale Leviticus Lager of 18:22 (20:13) Romans Imperial Stout Corinthians Chocolate Porter Saint Timothy IPA …a six pack of biblical, gay affirmation. Stay thirsty my friends. Stay thirsty. ................................................. ugh to the drinking alcohol metaphor substitute wholesome grape juice and pasty soy milk -GayatFootofCross Femster 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 1 hour ago, GayatfootofCross said: What if you’re wrong, like Paul in Scripture, who actually believed it was “unnatural” for the Gentiles to accept Christ and be included in the fellowship of believers? By the way, you know who the Gentiles are? You. Paul is not God. What did God say. Quote What if you’re wrong, like countless Christians throughout history who read your same Bible and vehemently concluded its support for racism and slavery? What if you’re wrong, like court reporters and clerks in the 1960’s who, citing Biblical grounds, refused to document and issue interracial marriage certificates because they believed them to be committing sin? Did God endorse slavery? What did God say? Did God claim interracial marriage a sin? Quote What if you are wrong, like the Southern Baptist denomination, who finally in 1995, apologized to the black community for its role in using the Bible to endorse racism and slavery? Did God endorse slavery in the bible? Or was that man's claim? Quote What if you are wrong, like the Pharisees, who believed they knew and lived the Scriptures better than anyone, but were shown out by Jesus to not only be in biblical error, but completing absent of understanding in regards to His heart and essence? I mean, just imagine if Hitler had only considered, “maybe I am wrong about the Jews” Was Hitler following the word of God? Quote Imagine if the Christian theologian John Calvin had only considered, “maybe I didn’t read this text right?” before brutally burning one of his critics to death, all in the name of biblical faithfulness mind you. Was God wrong or was John Calvin? Quote You have labeled as sin, that which is not. Then God has misled us. Not man but God has said....... I think I will take my chances with God rather than you or this author that compares His words to man made words https://carm.org/bible-homosexuality The Bible doesn't speak of homosexuality very often. But when it does, it condemns it as sin. Let's take a look. Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1 Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Romans 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper." Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible. It undermines God's created order when He made Adam and Eve, a man and a woman, to carry out His command to fill and subdue the earth (Genesis 1:28). Homosexuality cannot carry out that mandate. In addition, homosexuality undermines the basic family unit of husband and wife which is the God-ordained means of procreation. Again, homosexuality cannot do that. And, believe it or not, it is also dangerous to society. (See Is homosexuality dangerous?) Homosexuality has a heavy judgment administered by God Himself upon those who commit it and support it. "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error," (Romans 1:26-27). As a result of being "given over," they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, will not seek forgiveness, and will not repent. They will then die in their sins and face God's righteous condemnation. We, as Christians, do not want this judgment to fall upon anyone. But, their rebellion against God does not stop there. Those who are judged by God this way also promote it and condemn others who don't approve of their behavior. " . . . and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them," (Romans 1:32). So, in their "hearty approval" of homosexuality, they encourage others to accept their practice, and so their sin and rebellion against God spreads. This means they will reject Christ's redemptive work on the cross. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, they will have no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternalHell. We don't want this for anyone. Persecution of the non-politically correct? The Bible's view of homosexuality is not politically correct . . . and this is a concern. Will the Bible soon be considered hate speech by the moral-less majority? There is already significant social pressure being put on the American populace to accept homosexuality as normal and healthy. Homosexuality is promoted in movies, television, magazines, schools, etc. The social re-engineering is well underway. Yet, statistically only 3% of the population are homosexuals.2Christians, on the other hand, occupy a far higher percentage, 70%3 yet they are not fairly represented in the media. Instead, Christians are routinely portrayed as bigots, narrow-minded idiots, hypocrites, and worse. Why? Because there is little tolerance and equality from the left for those who disagree with them. The social attitude of America is slowly being engineered to accept liberal sexual behavior while condemning and silencing those who disagree. Since behavior follows belief, what is to stop our increasingly liberal society from acting on its silence-the-opposition attitude and becoming more and more harsh in its dealings with Christians? Nothing. In fact, there are increasing calls to get Christians kicked off social networks for speaking out against homosexual marriage. Silence the Christians! In workplaces, many Bible believers are told to go through sensitivity training in favor of the LGBT community even though such "sensitivity training" is highly offensive to them. If they don't go, they can be fired. It seems that sensitivity must be shown towards the homosexuals but never towards the Christians. This hypocrisy is blatant and dangerous. And then there are the lawsuits. They are on the increase. Will homosexuals attend churches for the purpose of asking pastors to perform a wedding, and then when they are refused, they sue? Will they seek out Christian owned businesses and ask to have a cake baked, a wedding photographed, or music played at their homosexual wedding and then file a lawsuit when Christians who are holding to their religious convictions refuse to comply? It is already happening, and such legal attacks are on the increase. (This has already happened in Colorado and Oregon where bakers were fined up to $150,000 for refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding). In light of this, we should look at history to see what politically correct momentum can do inand to a society. Think of Nazi Germany and the Jews or communist Russia and its persecution of dissenters in the 1900s. History is full of examples of how those in politically correct power oppress those who don't agree with them. Quote And worst of all, you have joined the choir of the False Accuser, singing songs of pure evil, believing them to be hymns of the Savior that reflect His heart and mind. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.