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In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

We are living in a time when it is important not to be misunderstood. The bottom line is that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a terrible crime. He was not a perfect person, but that does not negate the fact that it was a terrible crime. In an effort to prevent misunderstanding, I am asking that we refrain from commenting on any imperfections that we may think are related to him, regardless of whether they are true or not. Violations of my request will be considered for removal. NOTE: I have discussed this with Stan who is aware of my decision.

Hobie, I understand EGW in light of what the Bible plainly says. I don't try to interpret Scripture in light of what EGW says. It is not unusual for people to do that, hence the confusion over issues such as this. If you read and thought about the Biblical evidence I presented in the above post and still prefer what you think Sr. White said, I'm sorry for that. The Bible is much easier to understand than what she said on this topic. I wish you well in your journey.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

I believe the earth is around 6000 years old. I believe the creation of this planet happened in 6 days. I believe God created man from the dust of the earth.

I have no doubt there love of the Torah and the Tehillim! Mr. Goldberg, my teacher, also loved to study the book of Esther. Daniel was new to him. He was enthralled by the story of the fiery furnace. When the Hebrews said "~ Whether God saves us or not, there is no way we are going to bow to your image," Mr. Goldberg was deeply moved by that statement, as we all should be.

I was fortunate to learn from Jewish teachers who treasured the word of God, especially torah and tehillim, [Psalms]. The torah teacher employed a sort of call and response. He would translate English verses recited back into Hebrew to locate the verse, then respond. If prayers for the dead did any good, he would be way up on my list. The other gentleman who was kind of a tzaddik taught me enough Hebrew that we could read the Bible together. I would read the verse in Hebrew, then he would free translate it into English and we would discuss it. Another great soul I hope to see in heaven. Learning Hebrew from him was a real spiritual experience, not an academic one. As a young man, he learned Yiddish so he could talk with his Polish grandfather.

See: https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2026-06-03/lawsuit-virginia-state-tuition-religious-studies-21865305.html

I agree that God's eternity is essential. Thanks for adding it.

Intellectual integrity in Adventist scholarship is examined in the following article by a Seminary scholar: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/columns/what-of-intellectual-integrity/

There are only two movements in Christianity today with spiritual force behind it, Adventism and the church of Rome. The others are letting go of their foundations and drifting towards Rome or worse..

Why should I believe in the validity of the New Testament? Why should I believe that Christ rose from the dead? Powerful preachers exist in Adventism, whom I never mention in comments that I post in this forum. A new one has arisen on the Adventist scene who cannot be ignored and demands my recognition. That person is Shane Anderson, the senior pastor at Andrews University. The following is an exceptional series of sermons. # 1: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/03/07/part-1-sahara-surprise # 2: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/03/28/part-2-when-knowing-truth-not-enough # 3: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/04/04/part-3-tomb-raider

Wow. Wow, Wow, wow

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? Hebrews 2 New International Version We are warned not to drift away. Over the years, I have seen many people drift away. Studying the word of God every day, keeps us from drifting away. I have never seen someone drift away who was studying the bible every day.

I was talking to a friend in Michigan this week. He was at Dr Weavers church about 6 months ago. The Doc was teaching his regular Sabbath school. At 102 years old. They had a birthday party for him at the church when he turned 100. I bet it was well attended. He held stop smoking clinics all over the Detroit area for many years. Some of those former smokers are members of that church.

Another man with whom he had issues was one who borrowed one of his books and did not return it. Elder Richards retrieved it from his widow. He told me a story about a historical figure who had secured a firearm, something new at the time. When the king paraded through his town, he took aim and fired from a rooftop, knocking the king off his horse. HMS thought that was quite amusing. Not sure why he told me that story. I enjoyed reading the VOP book[let] of the month. I retrieved a bag full of them from the VOP headquarters. One was called "The Occult Explosion." It had a purple and black cover with appropriate illustrations. We had some Hell's Angels in our town at that time. I offered the booklet to one of them. He not only accepted it but thanked me for giving it to him.

Extremely well said! I'm going to incorporate this into my knowledge base! Humbling!

When Jesus healed the man/2men, when the pigs ran into the sea; they were pagans. They lived in a city where they were to show others how wonderful Greek life is. This was one of 10 Greek cities on the east side of the sea of Galilee and Jordan river, and the entire area was pagan. This was the "far country" that the prodigal son went to. These men would have been pagan. They would have known little to nothing of the people with a strange religion down south in Judah and pockets here and there in the north, but all across the lake. They knew very little. They would not have known the Bible. Yet, Jesus sent them to be his first missionaries to the gentiles. I wonder how comfortable we would feel if we could go back in time and attend their meetings?

I made a post on a social media, which was my opinion, that Israel and friends need to liberate Gazians from Hamas just as the Allies and Russia liberated Germans from Nazis. I still believe that. I do not expect everyone else to. If you befriend a Gasian so they will trust you, most would say the same thing. They are aware that Hamas has paid informants who try to abstract that from Gazians and then remove their remaining family from being alive. They may never trust you enough; they all have heard stories, fictional or not, of such. Back to the topic, many long-term friends blocked me over that. I suspect most of them were left-leaning, but I could be wrong. Has anyone else had that kind of experience? Stan

In my opinion, America is the richest country in the world, because of the blessings of God. It is estimated that there are 160 million Protestants in the USA. However, I will not be celebrating the 250th anniversary of America. Because I know her role in Prophecy. I can see that time drawing closer and closer.

I recommend the book by HMS Richards, "Feed My Sheep" . It changed my preaching. It was compiled from his training for pastors.

The celebration of the Passover is explained by various conversations by the characters in this episode. It informs viewers that do not have a Christian background what was happening during this feast. In one scene the high priest is dining with King Herod. They are discussing Jesus and it is presented in such a way that the high priest is clearly threatened by Jesus while King Herod sees Jesus as harmless. We know that Jesus was not a threat to the civil government of Rome. He was a threat to the Jewish religious leadership. After the resurrection and ascension, the new Christian sect was such a threat to Jewish leadership that they became persecuted. We see in this story the "church" and the "state". Jesus was not a threat to the state but was a threat to the church. The state is all about power and treasure in this world. The church is about power and treasure in the world to come. The episode comes to a climax with the cleansing of the temple. Jesus overturns the tables and runs the livestock and vendors out. It is very forceful. It is noteworthy that the Jewish people were expecting the Messiah to come and free them from Rome. They expected the Messiah to attack Rome. However, the Messiah did not attack Rome. He attacked the erroring Jewish establishment. During the first season, Jesus met with Nicodemus. The light came on for Nicodemus when he realized the Messiah didn't come to free them from Rome but rather to free them from sin. Cleansing the temple is an active illustration of Jesus freeing us from sin. The Jewish religion had become rigid legalism. Rigid legalism traps us in sin. If Jesus was here today, would He be trying to reform civil government or would He be focusing on the church? The reality is that Jesus is here today as He lives in those that believe in Him. Should our focus be on the civil government or on the church? How can we be free from legalism and fulfill the purpose God has for us at this time?

Interesting. You have indeed studied this topic.

I have in person and online, we had some here,

thanks I am going to set up a different email address for paypal, this may take a couple of days, It is so appreciated

For those interested in knowing how I am related to the above: He is the head of a household related to me. He regularly posts on Facebook.

In my opinion, none of this matters much. For over 100 years, the church has been preaching about the Judgment. This is the next big event that counts. The Judgment of the living. I talked about it here : If we don't get pardoned in the judgment, nothing else matters. I believe the judgment of the living is going on right now.

If you check out the "Jain" religion, they claim that the world is managed by 24 elders. It is one of the oldest religions with documentation of that. They are considered by those who consider things to be the most intellectual groups that have ever existed. uch ofmany of the sciences came from them. I have found them fascinating. Stan

* The Ten Commandments is not the primary reason that Seventh-day Adventists teach that Christians should keep the Sabbath. * The SDA teaching on the Sabbath is founded on their belief in the Creation story in early Genesis in which God set apart a 7th day to met with humanlity and grow us spiritualy.

Here is Kirk Cameron who has publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it, calling such a fate 'cruel and unusual punishment.' Cameron says that the Bible, especially in its Old Testament writing, does not depict the souls of the wicked as immortal. Instead, the only souls promised eternal life ' immortality' are those granted to believers. https://endtimeheadlines.org/2025/12/kirk-cameron-no-longer-believes-in-eternal-punishment/ ...Kirk Cameron no longer believes in eternal punishment (OPINION) In a recent episode of his show, Kirk Cameron publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it

Absolutely a true hero!

That and the cellphones, the young people rarely pull their gaze away to even think on doing good for others, as they check to see what the 'latest' is in fashion, fads, or face creams to say the least, or ways to get more worldly possessions for themselves...

Do they not see that they are aligned with Apostate Protestants who are rapidly constructing an image to the Beast?

The number of military chaplains who have been killed in combat is probably little known by the American public. Arlington National Cemetery has a special section where such chaplains are buried. It currently lists 134 Protestant chaplains, 83 Catholic chaplains, 14 Jewish chaplains, and 23 chaplains who ae not listed as to religious background. This information was obtained from the following website: https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Monuments-and-Memorials/Chaplains-Hill NOTES: * Under the Geneva Convention military chaplains are not combatants and do not use weapons. * I am just one of several SDA chaplains who has served in combat. * There are some 81 Protestant and 3 Catholic chaplains who have been killed in combat but have not yet have their names entered in the memorial. * For more information see: https://www.votervoice.net/mobile/AmericanLegion/Campaigns/131063/Respond

The issue is that no one should be forced to participate in something that violates their own belief. And not one should have to spend those last few weeks of their life in painful agony needlessly, we will let our loved ones suffer in a way we would not let our pets suffer.

When I began this task, I expected to quickly finish it. I really did not understand the amount of material available on Adventism, that was of good quality. I soon came to realize that I could not list it all. So, the above is simply a summary. Enjoy. May it be a blessing to you. I will now unlock this thread. Gregory Matthews

The following article reports on the kidnapping of a SDA pastor and his survival. https://interamerica.org/2025/09/adventist-pastor-in-haiti-survives-two-day-kidnapping-amid-escalating-violence/

Dr. George Knight, a SDA historian, has written a 140-page book on how to read and understand the writings of Kellen White. I consider it to be of great value. It contains 22 chapters. Amazon sells it for $11. The following link takes you to that place. * The first 4-chapters deal with EGWs relation to the Bible. * The next 16 chapters deal with how to understand (Interpret) her writings. * The last 2 chapters deal with how to apply her writings to yourself and to others. https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Ellen-White-Understand-Writings/dp/0828012636/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1H7FHPY751V0R&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mhKYtLjNSDj8a6FaZxgFwefMcBLFO-brLPHKKRBlU09Xvt8tUCR8RMdjq4XSWrQTQeN_ORIcyQtufEKc_3xyLXs6aM-AGrdldCL9Ki14q5ihmqPedyMrn3KYmVwmFhhCZQMl7wmkxi89sBoWfEzpS9NokFU07mwgg1muAsX5347csZdi1ZQ4tAlgPr-is3PJ4uXPHv9__f6VoMCiDFwPYuwrP9B0VlY6yLheuAw94Vs.4BkUEUeDof7rx_U9Z73ywLBYnuj38w0OtXzGtz1QMYc&dib_tag=se&keywords=reading+ellen+white&qid=1757803665&sprefix=reqding+ellen+white%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1 In short, this book deals with a balanced approach to the use of her writings while maintaining that the Bible is the standard for all living today.

Female SDA Pastors: The following article provides detailed and specific information related to female SDA pastors on a global basis. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/from-australia-to-zimbabwe-the-number-of-women-pastors-rises/ * Did you know that In China, more than 3,000 SDA women are serving as SDA pastors?

The Adventist Review, under its various names, dates back to the earliest days of the founding of our Chruch. It has a history that ties today with our earliest beginnings. Yet, today it is often seen as of little value to us today. The following article examines its history and use today. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/a-review-of-the-adventist-review/

I have always questioned the millions and billions of years--I just dont know where those figures comes from. I found this-- 1. Biblical Arguments YEC reasoning starts with the belief that the Bible gives a reliable historical record from creation onward. Plain reading of Genesis Genesis 1 presents six literal 24-hour days (yom with “evening and morning” formula). Exodus 20:11 links the creation week to the Sabbath command, implying no symbolic “ages.” Chronological genealogy Genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11 give a relatively complete timeline from Adam to Abraham. Adding biblical dates from Abraham to Christ to modern times yields about 6,000 years. No death before the Fall YECs argue that “millions of years” puts death, disease, and predation before sin, conflicting with Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:21–22. 2. Theological Concerns Undermining the Gospel Foundation If death existed before sin, then Christ’s atonement would not be a direct reversal of the curse introduced in Genesis 3. Authority of Scripture YECs see acceptance of millions of years as reinterpreting Scripture to fit secular science, undermining biblical authority. 3. Scientific Objections to Millions of Years While YECs don’t deny scientific observations, they reject uniformitarian assumptions — the idea that present processes explain all past events at the same rate. Geology Catastrophism: The global Flood of Noah’s day could explain large-scale sedimentary layers, rapid fossilization, and continent-scale strata without millions of years. Polystrate fossils: Tree trunks found vertically through multiple rock layers suggest rapid deposition, not slow burial. Soft tissue in fossils: Findings of soft tissue and proteins in supposedly millions-of-years-old dinosaur bones challenge long-age assumptions. Radiometric Dating Assumption challenge: YECs argue dating methods rely on unprovable assumptions about initial conditions, constancy of decay rates, and closed systems. Discordant results: Different methods sometimes give vastly different ages for the same rock. Astronomy Light travel time: Alternative models (e.g., gravitational time dilation or God creating light in transit) are proposed to explain distant starlight without billions of years. Young phenomena: Observations like spiral galaxy “winding” or short-lived comets suggest a young age. 4. Common YEC Summary

The best way to deal with homosexual friends and family is to treat them with respect, dignity, friendship - which includes minding your own business. One of the greatest evils of Christianity is its tendency to attract to its ranks busybodies who are obsessed with what other people do in private with their genitals.