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In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

We are living in a time when it is important not to be misunderstood. The bottom line is that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a terrible crime. He was not a perfect person, but that does not negate the fact that it was a terrible crime. In an effort to prevent misunderstanding, I am asking that we refrain from commenting on any imperfections that we may think are related to him, regardless of whether they are true or not. Violations of my request will be considered for removal. NOTE: I have discussed this with Stan who is aware of my decision.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

I believe the earth is around 6000 years old. I believe the creation of this planet happened in 6 days. I believe God created man from the dust of the earth.

Have you ever thought what your life would be like if you could no longer drive an automobile? For the past 6-months, I have been involved in an extensive conversation with the State of California, as to whether or not I would be allowed to drive an automobile. * This has involved examinations and reports from two eye doctors. * it has involved multiple trips to a local DMV office to resolve/respond to issues. * Yesterday it came to an end with a 30-minute driving test, on the highway, and in local residential areas, under close supervision. * Any failure on a list of critical issues would immediately result in a total failure to pass the examination. * I would be tested multiple times on minor issues, regardless of whether or not I failed on any of them. * A passing score of no more than 20 minor failures was required. * In addition, I was questioned on my knowledge of how to operate the vehicle that I was driving. Note: The DMV person knew more about how my vehicle operated than I did. * My physicians had recommended that i be restricted to only driving during daylight hours and to only a 2-year extension of my license. NOTE: It could be more restrictive. I PASSED WITH ONLY 10 MINOR FAILURES! THE RECOMMENDED RESTRICTIONS WERE ACCEPTED. I AM SO THNKFULE. I do not know how I would have survived with a total loss. Although, in most months I do not drive more than 10 miles. My wife is more restrictive.

I would have to lean towards that, and going about and am telling everyone we are near...

There are only two movements in Christianity today with spiritual force behind it, Adventism and the church of Rome. The others are letting go of their foundations and drifting towards Rome or worse..

Wow. Wow, Wow, wow

“It is not earthly rank, nor birth, nor nationality, nor religious privilege, which proves that we are members of the family of God; it is love, a love that embraces all humanity. ” EGW So is she saying we do not have to answer 28 questions?

Arthur Weaver was 102 years old. He had cancer surgery about two years ago. He was ill with a cold, that later must have become worse. He founded a church with help of others in Plymouth Michigan. It is in a residential area. Very peaceful surroundings. There is one long winding driveway. On the way out is a small sign. I will paraphrase it from memory. You are now entering the most difficult mission field in the world.

Gustave, I agree. Let's step back a moment and survey the damage done in the Middle East recently. As I watch smuggled videos about Israel, it appears the area above ground is 90% destroyed. Gaza is destroyed, Lebanon is pretty much destroyed. Syria is pretty much destroyed. Iran has been damaged, but it is hard to tell how much. However, things are not over, and I think it is likely to be destroyed like the others. In our lifetime, or the last 250 years, we have never seen war and destruction like this in the Middle East. The destruction is almost as complete as Europe in the 1940s. This is very historic. The Middle East will not recover economically for another 20-30 or 40 years, if the pattern of post-war Europe is followed. What does this mean? Many people are focusing on the trees and not seeing the forest or the future.

Seventh-day Adventists worship on a day dedicated to a pagan god. But, our worship is not dedicated to that pagan god. By the way, it is not a sin to worship on Sunday. It is not a sin to worship with other Christians on Sonday. The Biblical Sabbath, is much more than a day of worship. The Bible, as I understand it, established a Sabbath on the 7th day of the week. It does not forbid worship on any day of the week. I have worshiped with fellow Christians on Sunday many times. Sometimes I have even preached to congregations of other denominations on Sunday.

The following is a lilting of the materials that are commonly included in the Apocrypha. In some cases, I may have shortened the title from what is the title as included in Bibles. Also, I do not list in the order in which they are included in the Bibles. If you wish to read the following, they are probably all available on the Internet. 1st Maccabees: This book is considered to be the best history that we have of the specific period of time that it describes. 2nd Maccabees: This book is thought to have some historical value for the covered period of time, but not as much as the one directly above. NOTE: Two other similar (3rd & 4th) versions did not make it into the cannon of any present Christian group. The Three Holy Children: This section tells the story of the three who were thrown into the furnace of fire, their conversations while they were in the furnace, and their deliverance. Susanna: This is the story of a woman falsely accused of immoral conduct. Daniel steps in to defend her and proves her innocent. It is an addition to the book of Daniel. Bel and the Dragon: This is a fanciful story of Daniel who destroyed the Babylonian god Bel, and also a dragon god, who was then thrown into the den of lions for 6-days during which God fed Daniel., 1st Esdras: This is a long story of how Cyrus allowed the Jews to return from their captivity in Babylon to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. 2nd Esdras: This book begins with the story of God delivering the Jews from Egypt. It has a focus on End Time Events that differs from the other book. Prayer of Manasses: He is a captive in Babylon. This is his prayer asking for forgiveness. Tobit: This is the story of a righteous man on a journey, accompanied by an angel of God who encounters an evil spirit. He heals people with gall. One person dies at 185 years of age. Tobit dies at 127 years of age. Judith: In this story, God uses the woman, Judith to deliver Israel from the enemy. It differs some, but, is similar to the story of Jael killing Sisera in Judges 4:17-22. Additions to Esther: These additions to the book of Esther expand upon the story of the attempt to kill the Jews and how Esther approached the King to request that they be saved. Wisdom of Solomon: This is simply alleged to be the teachings of King Solomon. Christians would likely agree with much. Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus: This is a collection of the teachings of a man named Jesus who lived many years prior to Jesus the Christ. Baruch: this book was written to Jews in captivity in Babylon. It states that such happened due to their sins and assures them that if they repent, God will deliver them and return them to their previous land.

It was interesting hearing the former president’s speak at the funeral.

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.

When Jesus healed the man/2men, when the pigs ran into the sea; they were pagans. They lived in a city where they were to show others how wonderful Greek life is. This was one of 10 Greek cities on the east side of the sea of Galilee and Jordan river, and the entire area was pagan. This was the "far country" that the prodigal son went to. These men would have been pagan. They would have known little to nothing of the people with a strange religion down south in Judah and pockets here and there in the north, but all across the lake. They knew very little. They would not have known the Bible. Yet, Jesus sent them to be his first missionaries to the gentiles. I wonder how comfortable we would feel if we could go back in time and attend their meetings?

God intends for His church to be comprised of people growing in faith and understanding. From this perspective you can expect to have people who are members who believe to some extent false doctrine.

The following lengthy article describes the years of Ted Wilson's reign and suggests how Kohler's time in office may differ from Wilson's. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/analysis/is-the-wilson-era-over/

But two years later, on July 4, at the 2025 GC Session in St. Louis, Missouri, out of the almost 2,000 session delegates who had just heard Wilson’s official “President’s Report”—a telling of everything the church accomplished under his 15-year-long leadership—only 188 of the floor delegates voted for him. The vast majority clearly decided that the church can, in fact, survive without him. Wilson was not reelected president, and Erton Köhler succeeded him with over 90 percent approval. In the first 6 months, it appears he is doing what he said he would. More focus on humanitarian efforts and programs. He appears to be reduced intensity. So far he is doing a great job.

I saw a YT short of a woman saying "I am glad Charlie Kirk is dead. He got what he deserved". A comment was that some people are evil now. It is evil to wish people dead. Is there a growing spirit of evil in America? We always talk about a shaking time in the church, but could there be a shaking time in the general population?

I wonder if they told their clergy to expend as much energy, money, and man hours into as a group trying to change the laws that are responsible for the mess and loss of life. Then all want to be seen as the righteous ones, those that care ready to lay down their lives, not those nasty unchristian conservatives. The mess we have going in MPLS is manufactured according to many, .Those constantly fanning the flames are not from MN, they are professionally trained agitators . .It is a deflection from some of the most corrupt administrations in the U. It did as was intended ,drawing attention away fromthe fraud and theft They know exactly what they are doing attention away from our governor, AG and our Somali congress woman. The tide has turned in a rapid way to support of this corruption when it had been building against the democratic administration. Families are being encouraged publically to rid the landscape of conservatives. "Sadly it will be necessary to take a harsh stand against family,even your own children or your parents" The leaders of this mess do not give a fig for the poor "illegals". They are simply useful idiots. Democrats and republicans have had ample time to correct that border mess with common sense laws. laws that would eliminate the need to come illegal,would stop that hideous practise of trafficking children. I know what the dems get in return for this,for the life of me I cant understand the republicans for this to remain as it does. Everyone has to gain something or when one party basically has the rule this would change. There have been times when both parties have had control and we have not made any headway.

For informational purposes, I am posting my approach to moderation as to posts that other people make: * I almost never make a change in what a person has posted. On rare occasions I correct a typo that is clearly a major error, and I may notify the author that I did so. * I generally edit in the following three areas: Civil: Debate the issue and do not attack the person. Porn: This is not a place to post photos of people not wearing clothing, as has been done many times in the past. Commercial: This forum costs money to operate. It is not generally a place to promote commercial activity. Every year, I have to deal with a person who promotes a roofing company. This is not a place for you to advertise your income producing service. NOTE: On a limited basis, I do post information related to materials and services that I believe foster Christianity. This thread remains open for comments.

? Pic du jour Photo: Stewart Verdery Reader Stewart Verdery — who's sent us some brilliant parting shots over the years — tells us: "I actually think this was the coolest photo of 2025." "On a transatlantic flight in September into Dulles, I ... happened to look over and see the sunset from 35,000 feet over the Atlantic. Looks like the sun is sitting on top of the clouds."

But they have crowns. That leads me to believe they are overcomers. It seems to me God would want overcomers in a leadership role in heaven. In the end, it does not really matter. What ever God's plan is, it is perfect.

* The Ten Commandments is not the primary reason that Seventh-day Adventists teach that Christians should keep the Sabbath. * The SDA teaching on the Sabbath is founded on their belief in the Creation story in early Genesis in which God set apart a 7th day to met with humanlity and grow us spiritualy.

December 3, 2025 The current issue(December 2025) of the Adventist Journey, contained ain interesting article by Paul Douglas, titled "Mission Emphasis Informs Treasurer's Report at Annual Council, beginning on page 6. * It reported that on a worldwide basis 35.7% of the tithe was used for pastoral support, and 29.2% was used for operational expenses. * on a basis of a worldwide median calculation, 30.7% was used for operational support and 36.4% for pastoral support. My understanding of the above leads me to conclude that we need to restructure our use of tithe, reduce our operational expenses and increase our support of pastoral ministry. I would want to work to reduce our operational expenses to no more than 50% of that provided to pastoral support . In other words, 2/3 of tithe to pastoral ministry and 1/3 to operational, at the most. It would be a good start. I do not believe that we need to have every aspect of our organizational structure on every level of the organized Church. AAs an example, I can agree that we need to have ACM and Religious Liberty represented on the Division level. But, I do not think it is needed on the GC level. Yes, I know that people can always fine "busy work" to do. Further, think that we may need to re-think exactly what is needed at the levels that we establish organizational support. IOWs, we may, at some levels, be spinning our wheels in not providing exactly the support that is needed. But, that is for another time and discussion.

There is a reality that all students of the SDA Church must face. Ellen White is an early cofounder of what is now the SDA Church. I do not believe that she has as much influence on the development of SDA doctrine as some would propose that she had. I will be teh first to say that she played a major role in the administrative development of the SDA Church. She had major roles in our entry into missions, education, healthcare, and publishing. We would not be a denomination of 23 million people today if it were not for her role in our development. I believe that God used her. But, God uses imperfect people. She was not divine. She was human. she was not always correct in her theology. No human is. Other denominations acknowledge that their early leaders were imperfect. Gustave would be the first to acknowledge that there have been Popes who were imperfect. Why can we not do the same. Why can we not admit that Ellen White was a human, who was imperfect, but still used by God. God has used me in spite of my being imperfect., as all humans are.

On a regular basis, Adventist Today hosts a Zoom Conference of some religious issue. After the conference, they are posted on the Internet. Those postings can be accessed at: https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventistTodayMedia Scroll past other material to the following: ATSS Presents. NOTE: The conference on Reclaiming the Prophet is posted in a thread titled Ellen G. White and Adventism.

I don't think many in America think of themselves as socialists. Although in EU and Canada, there may be SDA's who consider themselves socialists. There are many people who believe it is our duty to help others. This includes public financial assistance, immigration assistance and legal assistance. They have a large compassion for people. In how we accomplish this, is where many disagreements come in. I know many people in America on both sides of the issue. They are not bad people. They are good people with different solutions. Some are very passionate about their views.

Hello friends, it's been a while since I've posted and a lot has happened but I want to share what's happened since I've last posted. In 2017, my wife, Denise read me a quote from a devotional called "The faith that I live by." I was searching for answers because I was tired of being a failing Christian. I had been studying the Bible and SOP for years and yet when I honestly looked at my life, there was no victory no satisfaction, just emptiness. I'm sure you all have felt that at some time or another. What I understood and experienced was righteousness by faith. I had studied and even preach on this subject in the past but I was simply passing on information without it making a change in my heart. This video is a testimony (sort of) and it captures what I was learning. It was recorded in 2023. The battery on my camera went dead so the entire sermon wasn't recorded but there's enough to understand what I was saying. it's about 29 minutes long. I do hope you are blessed and encouraged.

great points.

The following article reports on the kidnapping of a SDA pastor and his survival. https://interamerica.org/2025/09/adventist-pastor-in-haiti-survives-two-day-kidnapping-amid-escalating-violence/

Female SDA Pastors: The following article provides detailed and specific information related to female SDA pastors on a global basis. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/from-australia-to-zimbabwe-the-number-of-women-pastors-rises/ * Did you know that In China, more than 3,000 SDA women are serving as SDA pastors?

The Adventist Review, under its various names, dates back to the earliest days of the founding of our Chruch. It has a history that ties today with our earliest beginnings. Yet, today it is often seen as of little value to us today. The following article examines its history and use today. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/a-review-of-the-adventist-review/

I posted the above because I wanted to help clarify some aspects of the conversation. IOW, I felt that some comments were not fully understood. As I read and understand the above listing of Catholic teaching, I can agree with it. I do not fully agree with some other aspects of what Gustave has said, as I understand them. But, I think that my posting of Catholic teaching lays a good foundation for a common agreement.

The following article by Richard Coffen presents five passages in the Bible that have bee misunderstood. They are interesting. https://atoday.org/six-famous-bible-misinterpretations/

I have always questioned the millions and billions of years--I just dont know where those figures comes from. I found this-- 1. Biblical Arguments YEC reasoning starts with the belief that the Bible gives a reliable historical record from creation onward. Plain reading of Genesis Genesis 1 presents six literal 24-hour days (yom with “evening and morning” formula). Exodus 20:11 links the creation week to the Sabbath command, implying no symbolic “ages.” Chronological genealogy Genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11 give a relatively complete timeline from Adam to Abraham. Adding biblical dates from Abraham to Christ to modern times yields about 6,000 years. No death before the Fall YECs argue that “millions of years” puts death, disease, and predation before sin, conflicting with Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:21–22. 2. Theological Concerns Undermining the Gospel Foundation If death existed before sin, then Christ’s atonement would not be a direct reversal of the curse introduced in Genesis 3. Authority of Scripture YECs see acceptance of millions of years as reinterpreting Scripture to fit secular science, undermining biblical authority. 3. Scientific Objections to Millions of Years While YECs don’t deny scientific observations, they reject uniformitarian assumptions — the idea that present processes explain all past events at the same rate. Geology Catastrophism: The global Flood of Noah’s day could explain large-scale sedimentary layers, rapid fossilization, and continent-scale strata without millions of years. Polystrate fossils: Tree trunks found vertically through multiple rock layers suggest rapid deposition, not slow burial. Soft tissue in fossils: Findings of soft tissue and proteins in supposedly millions-of-years-old dinosaur bones challenge long-age assumptions. Radiometric Dating Assumption challenge: YECs argue dating methods rely on unprovable assumptions about initial conditions, constancy of decay rates, and closed systems. Discordant results: Different methods sometimes give vastly different ages for the same rock. Astronomy Light travel time: Alternative models (e.g., gravitational time dilation or God creating light in transit) are proposed to explain distant starlight without billions of years. Young phenomena: Observations like spiral galaxy “winding” or short-lived comets suggest a young age. 4. Common YEC Summary

For the story of a woman who saved the lives of some 2,000 - 2.500 children during WW II, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irena_Sendler and https://www.holocaustmatters.org/irena-sendler/ The Internet is full of stories about her.

The following article reports on an interesting example of Interfaith cooperation that includes a SDA aspect. https://www.deseret.com/faith/2025/06/28/interfaith-support-lds-church-ethiopian-orthodox-church-utah-community/

SDA Baptisms are normally public. They are not required to be public. it is the call of the pastor doing the baptism. The SDA Church accepts baptism by immersion, performed by clergy of other Christian faiths. Such people are not required to be re-baptized in order to join the SDA Church. Sometimes such people will request to be re-baptized, when such happens, they will often be re-baptized. But, it is not required. Page 50 of my Church Manual (Revised 2000) contains two sentences related to baptism. Neither requires re-baptism of converts from other Christian groups. Again, yes, we do uphold baptism by immersion for all.

A fundamental error that many Christians engage in, including SDAs, is to consider the main focus of the Sabbath to be that of worship. The purpose of the Sabbath, as it began in Eden, was to spend a day with God and to grow spiritually. It was a day separate from the routine duties that Adam and Eve had in Eden. Rather the focus was on God and getting to know God better in a close association with God. Worship is a small part of that, even if important. Worship can be on multiple days of the week. I have probably conducted more worship services on Sundays, than I have on Saturdays. Adventists often have worship services in a series of meetings that are held on multiple days of the week. There is nothing wrong with either my holding worship services on Sunday mornings, or with SDA clergy holding revival meetings on days other than the Sabbath. The spiritual error occurs with Christians, whether Adventist or otherwise, fail to understand the spiritual blessing that we experience in spending the day with God, on the Sabbath that God has established as a special day to commune with us.