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In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

Hobie, I understand EGW in light of what the Bible plainly says. I don't try to interpret Scripture in light of what EGW says. It is not unusual for people to do that, hence the confusion over issues such as this. If you read and thought about the Biblical evidence I presented in the above post and still prefer what you think Sr. White said, I'm sorry for that. The Bible is much easier to understand than what she said on this topic. I wish you well in your journey.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

The New Testament has one God who's name is: Father, Son and Holy Sprit. The Old Testament has one God in three pictures: El or God as the great unapproachable power ruling the entire universe. YHWH, The Angel of the Lord who turns out to be the Lord, Michael the Prince, Messiah the Prince, the Fire that burned but did not consume the bush, The Captain of the Lord's Host, etc. which is God as personal and approachable. Then there is the Spirit of the Lord where we do not see an objective revelation as we do in the first two, but God working on the heart and leading the life through the subjective, existential situations. We have all of these as one God, and united in the term "Elohim" the singular plural. Yes, The God of the Old Testament who's name is El, YHWH, The Spirit of God; and the one God of the New Testament who's name is God the Father, God The Son, and God the Holy Spirit is the creator of the entire universe.

I tell this little goat story to show how the Law saves us from harm..... Jesus used parables to explain things plainly so the people could understand, and I was struck as I worked on my fence this morning, by how the fence was like Gods law, and I thought I would share it. I have many animals but none have given me more grief than my goats. When I first got them, they were a few weeks old and I put up a fence to keep them safe from the various panthers, bears, bobcats and other wildlife that share the woods with us. The fence was more of a marker for the goats as they soon learned to go under it and wander out in the woods were dangers lurked. They got out and indulged in all their little goat desires and ate lantana and other things which wasnt good for them, then at night they would come home through the front gate and lay on the warm hood of my car or the top, causing me great grief. Then I lost some of them from bloating from what they ate and to wildlife, so I did everything I could to save them from the real dangers in the woods. I put a second fence around them so they were in sight of the house so I could go get them if they got out. I sank the bottom of the fence deeper and cemented it at the base, but they jumped over it. I made the fence higher, so they stood on top of stumps or logs so they could get over it. I told my wife we would have to get rid of the goats because they would not stay withing the fence, and getting out where the panthers, bobcats and other dangers in the woods took their toll, so she said to let her try. She went and sat with them and gave them alfalfa hay to clear out their tummys of the bad stuff they had picked up. She talked to them and rubbed their bellies when they were sick and gave them charcoal for the bloating. Soon the goats stopped jumping the fence and waited for my wife in their pen, and let her hold them and clean their fur or between their horns as that is the one place they cant reach. Now they listen for her voice and come running when she calls and sit with her and listen to her little goat stories she tells them. Something happened that changed the goats, I couldnt put my finger on it but on one thing I was clear, the fence didnt save them from the dangers. Did it help, yes as far as it delineated the cleared land of the farm and their little goat pen where it was safe. But somehow the goats changed in their little goat desires and behavior and they no longer wanted to jump the fence and leave the farm, but instead to stay within the safety of the fence and share their happiness with someone who loves them......

There is no "slipping away" from stealing, which is what you described. Forgiving them is a totally separate issue from their paying back what they took. You have a responsibility to protect other people from thieves, people that you don't even know.

I am studying this subject on the Adventist view of the Nature of Christ, and giving what I am finding, but want everyone's input. Here is what Adventist theologians and leaders as well as members, tend to lean toward, the postlapsarian view affirming that Christ?s human nature was fully human, could be tempted, and yet remained sinless. This allows Him to be both a perfect example and a perfect Redeemer Postlapsarian (Fallen Nature) ? Christ?s human nature was identical to ours after the Fall, inheriting weaknesses and a predisposition to sin. This view emphasizes that His ability to be tempted from without and remain sinless is the basis for His example and atonement Adventists hold to the belief that Christ took on the nature of man after the Fall, in its weakened state. Adventists believe that Christ, the 'last Adam,' possessed on His human side, a nature like that of the 'first man Adam,' a nature free from every defiling taint of sin, but capable of responding to sin, and that nature was handicapped by the debilitating effects of four thousand years of sin's inroads on man's body and nervous system and environment. He took the flesh of sinful man, and overcame where man failed, overthrew sin in the flesh. He accepted the limitations and conditions of our common humanity. Jesus took Adams human nature after the fall. But Jesus did not inherit sinful tendencies from Adam - that is, Jesus did not have a tendency to sin. Christ inherited our physical weaknesses, for example, Christ had to sleep when he got tired. He had to eat when he got hungry and drink when he got thirsty. He inherited our physical limitations but not our sinful inclinations. Physically, Christ was like us - feeling pain, frail, weak, prone to get sick if we dont take care of our bodies, and under the consequences of aging. But morally, Christ could be tested by temptation as scripture shows us but did not have our ungodly desires or sinful inclinations. Here is a explanation by ?ngel Manuel Rodr?guez on the Adventist church view of the nature of Christ : Our Adventist Statement of Fundamental Beliefs summarizes that which the church holds to be biblical truth around the world. It says: "God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ [John 1:1-3, 14]. . . . Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ [Heb. 2:14]. . . . He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God [Heb. 4:15]. In infinite love and mercy "God made Christ who knew no sin, to be sin for us" (2 Cor. 5:21). Those statements attest that, first, Jesus was divine; second, that He became what He was not, truly human; and, third, that He knew no sin, and was without sin even though He faced severe temptations. And here from the SDA Bible Commentary: "In taking upon Himself man's nature in its fallen condition, Christ did not in the least participate in its sin. He was subject to the infirmities and weaknesses by which man is encompassed, "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses." He was touched with the feeling of our infirmities, and was in all points tempted like as we are. And yet He "knew no sin." He was the Lamb "without blemish and without spot." Could Satan in the least particular have tempted Christ to sin, he would have bruised the Saviour's head. As it was, he could only touch His heel. Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. Divine wrath would have come upon Christ as it came upon Adam. . . . We should have no misgivings in regard to the perfect sinlessness of the human nature of Christ.-- The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, p. 1131. {7ABC 447.3}

Christ had to do as we must do or there was no point in His coming. Here is more on this .. Christ's perfect humanity is the same that man may have through connection with Christ. As God, Christ could not be tempted any more than He was not tempted from His allegiance in heaven. But as Christ humbled Himself to the nature of man, He could be tempted. He had not taken on Him even the nature of the angels, but humanity, perfectly identical with our own nature, except without the taint of sin. A human body, a human mind, with all the peculiar properties, He was bone, brain, and muscle. A man of our flesh, He was compassed with the weakness of humanity. The circumstances of His life were of that character that He was exposed to all the inconveniences that belong to men, not in wealth, not in ease, but in poverty and want and humiliation. He breathed the very air man must breathe. He trod our earth as man. He had reason, conscience, memory, will, and affections of the human soul which was united with His divine nature. Our Lord was tempted as man is tempted. He was capable of yielding to temptations, as are human beings. His finite nature was pure and spotless, but the divine nature that led Him to say to Philip, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father" also, was not humanized; neither was humanity deified by the blending or union of the two natures; each retained its essential character and properties. But here we must not become in our ideas common and earthly, and in our perverted ideas we must not think that the liability of Christ to yield to Satan's temptations degraded His humanity and He possessed the same sinful, corrupt propensities as man. The divine nature, combined with the human, made Him capable of yielding to Satan's temptations. Here the test to Christ was far greater than that of Adam and Eve, for Christ took our nature, fallen but not corrupted, and would not be corrupted unless He received the words of Satan in the place of the words of God. To suppose He was not capable of yielding to temptation places Him where He cannot be a perfect example for man, and the force and the power of this part of Christ's humiliation, which is the most eventful, is no instruction or help to human beings. But the facts of this history are not fable, but a living, acting, experience. [To deny this] would rob Jesus of His greatest glory--allegiance to God--which enshrouded Him as a garment in this world on the field of battle with the relentless foe, and He is not reckoned with the transgressor. He descended in His humiliation to be tempted as man would be tempted, and His nature was that of man, capable of yielding to temptation. His very purity and holiness were assailed by a fallen foe, the very one that became corrupted and then was ejected from heaven. How deeply and keenly must Christ have felt this humiliation."

I was fortunate to learn from Jewish teachers who treasured the word of God, especially torah and tehillim, [Psalms]. The torah teacher employed a sort of call and response. He would translate English verses recited back into Hebrew to locate the verse, then respond. If prayers for the dead did any good, he would be way up on my list. The other gentleman who was kind of a tzaddik taught me enough Hebrew that we could read the Bible together. I would read the verse in Hebrew, then he would free translate it into English and we would discuss it. Another great soul I hope to see in heaven. Learning Hebrew from him was a real spiritual experience, not an academic one. As a young man, he learned Yiddish so he could talk with his Polish grandfather.

Not a difficult problem to solve. Check numerous versions. Compare them. Look at the context. Unless you have knowledge of Greek to the point of being a textual critic, you are wading into waters way over your head. Even those who are fluent in the original languages can't agree on what the best translation is; consequently, we have so many versions. No Christian doctrine is dependent upon a single text. Some versions, such as the KJV, were intended for public reading; therefore, the translators sometimes chose different English words to translate the same Greek word because it sounded better. This is problematic for serious Bible study. Benjamin Wilkinson created a lot of confusion in SDA land. Jim Arrabito, a great artist and a gracious individual popularized Wilkinson's work in more modern times. The NT writers, including Jesus, quoted almost exclusively from the Greek Old Testament, which is mostly preserved in the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. There are passages you can read in English translations of the Greek Old Testament which are very different from other English versions. Make things easy for yourselves. Use a KJV and compare it with the NRSV, NASB, ESV, and whatever other translations you like. Depend on the Holy Spirit to lead you into the truth after you have done your best.

Not sure what you mean by this You can't mean that Jesus had the law of sin working in his humanity. Romans 7 is very clear that it is impossible to not sin when one is comprised of that nature. Paul say in chapter 8 that he had the "likeness of sinful flesh." He looked like every other sinful being. Adam possessed a human nature minus the law of sin, yet he still sinned. He made a choice without a predisposition to sin, something that none of us can do. We are predisposed to sin. As Job put it, we go astray as soon as we are born. Jesus was not like that. If you think that EGW believed and taught that Jesus possessed a nature exactly like ours, subject to the law of sin, either you misunderstand her or she was wrong. Paul, Barnabas, and Elijah had a nature like ours, evinced by the translation "like passions." Scripture does not say that Jesus had "like passions" with ours.

Some of the best sermons I ever heard came from Sunday keeping preachers: John MacArthur, Billy Graham, Kip McKean. I consider them among the best because I still remember them. I don't remember exactly what Billy Graham said but I do remember sensing the presence of the Holy Spirit and reaffirming my commitment to Christ. I hand wrote a letter to Billy Graham asking about the Sabbath. I received a very professional, typed response from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. I accepted Christ at a crusade he held at Chavez Ravine in either 1958 or 1963.. God does not dwell in temples made with men's hands.

For generations, scientists have viewed the inability to regrow lost body parts as one of the fundamental limitations of humans and other mammals. While creatures such as salamanders can regenerate entire limbs, humans typically heal injuries by forming scar tissue. New research from the Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences (VMBS), however, suggests that regenerative abilities may not be entirely absent in mammals. Instead, they could be hidden within the body's normal healing machinery, waiting to be activated under the right conditions. "Why some animals can regenerate and others, particularly humans, can't is a big question that has been asked since Aristotle," said Dr. Ken Muneoka, a professor in the VMBS' Department of Veterinary Physiology & Pharmacology (VTPP). "I've spent my career trying to understand that." In a study published in Nature Communications, Muneoka and colleagues describe a new two-step treatment that enabled the regeneration of bone, joint structures, and ligaments. Although the regrown tissues were not perfect replicas of the originals, the researchers believe the approach could eventually help reduce scarring and improve tissue repair after amputations. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260618041508.htm

I would have to lean towards that, and going about and am telling everyone we are near...

Many years ago, I reported to the police an old acquaintance who was involved in the heroin trade. I felt a bit guilty for betraying him, so I told him what I had done. One evening, I was walking along a dark street and a carload of guys. with him in the car, drove by real slow, taking a look at me. I reached into the pocket of the oversize coat I was wearing; they drove away. Bluffing might be option when dealing with potential or actual drive by shooters. I was lucky that night.

Wow. Wow, Wow, wow

“It is not earthly rank, nor birth, nor nationality, nor religious privilege, which proves that we are members of the family of God; it is love, a love that embraces all humanity. ” EGW So is she saying we do not have to answer 28 questions?

I was talking to a friend in Michigan this week. He was at Dr Weavers church about 6 months ago. The Doc was teaching his regular Sabbath school. At 102 years old. They had a birthday party for him at the church when he turned 100. I bet it was well attended. He held stop smoking clinics all over the Detroit area for many years. Some of those former smokers are members of that church.

Arthur Weaver was 102 years old. He had cancer surgery about two years ago. He was ill with a cold, that later must have become worse. He founded a church with help of others in Plymouth Michigan. It is in a residential area. Very peaceful surroundings. There is one long winding driveway. On the way out is a small sign. I will paraphrase it from memory. You are now entering the most difficult mission field in the world.

Seventh-day Adventists worship on a day dedicated to a pagan god. But, our worship is not dedicated to that pagan god. By the way, it is not a sin to worship on Sunday. It is not a sin to worship with other Christians on Sonday. The Biblical Sabbath, is much more than a day of worship. The Bible, as I understand it, established a Sabbath on the 7th day of the week. It does not forbid worship on any day of the week. I have worshiped with fellow Christians on Sunday many times. Sometimes I have even preached to congregations of other denominations on Sunday.

I have not heard that before. I know many Adventist who believe it was in the first week. Very interesting. How do we know that? I believe they did have sex before sin, and that is partially why Adam sinned. He understood Eve had sinned and that the serpent was the one they were warned about, but he did not want to lose Eve, so he ate the fruit too. But I could be wrong. The bible is not specific about when.

I used to work (at a low end salary) for a high-end art and antiques gallery in Los Angeles. Pieces I worked on were displayed in museums and attracted international attention in the art world. The gallery owner had been collecting art for decades, having been introduced to the art world as a child by his grandmother. Among his holdings was a painting of Philip baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch. He believed it to be an original Rembrandt. In order to validate his belief, he took it to Europe for certification by Rembrandt authorities there. They denied that it was an original Rembrandt, instead consigning it to one of his students or other painter. Disappointed, he returned home to America. Sometime after he returned, he received a letter from the chairman of the art history department of a major university, offering to help him certify the painting for a 10% slice of the sale price. which would have put hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pocket. On another occasion, I bought an inexpensive picture which is still displayed in our home. Several years after the purchase, I saw an identical painting written up in an online news source. The painting was being touted as an original antique painting, a great discovery in the art world. Knowing something about the fakery that goes on, I contacted the gallery advertising it. I never heard back. I did see, however, an article retracting previous claims made regarding the picture. I don't believe my note had anything to do with the retraction. Simply a matter of a "scholar" doing a little homework. Fraud is ubiquitous in the art world, whether it be "antique" furniture, paintings, or whatever. Estate sales are another venue for being duped. Gallery owners routinely "plant" pieces they own to ad some cachet to a piece they haven't been able to sell out of their shop. I once told a client that the piece he was buying was a recent copy rather than an antique. He immediately went to the owner (not the same one that had the non-Rembrandt). He returned and we finished putting the item in his car. The shop owner then reviled me for telling the customer the truth. People want to believe what they want to believe. The religious world is similar, in some respects. I know nothing of the sculpture to which the article refers; however, let the buyer beware

It was interesting hearing the former president’s speak at the funeral.

Extremely well said! I'm going to incorporate this into my knowledge base! Humbling!

They told their clergy to ensure the will is up to date, as they may end up giving their lives for their neighbours. https://www.npr.org/2026/01/18/nx-s1-5678579/ice-clashes-new-hampshire-bishop-urges-clergy-prepare-wills#:~:text=Bishop Rob Hirschfeld in the,Hirschfeld's comments quickly went viral.

The following lengthy article describes the years of Ted Wilson's reign and suggests how Kohler's time in office may differ from Wilson's. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/analysis/is-the-wilson-era-over/

In my opinion, America is the richest country in the world, because of the blessings of God. It is estimated that there are 160 million Protestants in the USA. However, I will not be celebrating the 250th anniversary of America. Because I know her role in Prophecy. I can see that time drawing closer and closer.

I saw a YT short of a woman saying "I am glad Charlie Kirk is dead. He got what he deserved". A comment was that some people are evil now. It is evil to wish people dead. Is there a growing spirit of evil in America? We always talk about a shaking time in the church, but could there be a shaking time in the general population?

As many of you know I spent 20 years as a Denver VA Chaplain, and also as a chaplain for other hospitals. In part, due to my background, I was appointed to join a special group of area hospital people to work with HIV infected people. So, as a chaplain to that group, I spent one day a week working with HIV infected people for 13-months. Each week I shared a meal with such. * These included, men, women & children. * Some were former Adventists. * Some were present Adventists. * Just about all of the adults acknowledged that they were homosexual. * Some were celibate. * As they got to know me, they shared their journey with me. * I shared God's love for each of them in return. * No, I did not tell them that homosexuality was part of 'God's plan for humans. But, I could tell them of God's personal love for them. How many reading this have ever sat next to a HIV infected person at a shared meal?

Nailed it!

I start out with the idea that "Hell Fire" is God present in person in all God's love, beauty and glory that purifies and calls out the best in everyone. Some people will find this heaven, but others who have not wanted the best in them to be in control will find it very, very uncomfortable to be with him. Jesus is their deepest desire, they long to run into his loving arms; but they don't know him. They are unforgiving people and thus cannot comprehend forgiveness. They picture what they would do to someone like themselves if they were God. They want to run to him but refuse to yield to this deepest desire. They want to but won't. In the end God treats everyone the same, but our choices depend on how we respond. While this comes from Ellen White, I believe that it's Biblical. She pictures us seeing Jesus coming in the clouds and we are overwhelmed and ask "Who shall be able to stand?" There is a moment of horrible silence, then Jesus says [sings?] "My grace is sufficient for you!" To these words we find two responses. Some realize "Yes, this is my friend Jesus and his grace is sufficient for me! This is my God and He will save me!" Jesus does not say "My grace is sufficient for you Stan and for you Matthew, but sorry Kevin, it's not sufficient for you." Jesus says to each and every one of us "My grace is sufficient for you." Some believe him, others have just had their ear drums vibrate to the sweetest sound it ever heard telling them that his grace is sufficient for them, but they do not believe him. They think he is lying and they run to the rocks... Heaven is total reality. In a lot of ways hell is the rejection of reality as they become slaves to the figment of their imagination. Building on this are the three aspects of the trinity, the issues of the great controversy which creatures need to ask if God is who God claims to be or not, and the mystery of how Lucifer instead of looking for the answers to this question, turned the question into three deceptions one against each member of the trinity. The Holy Spirit works with every heart. Every group/religion has a mixture of truth, error, misunderstandings and superstitions. The monotheistic religions have more truth available to them, especially as they accept the Bible and aspects of the Bible, but many with much truth available don't take advantage of this gift, while many with less available treasure what they have. The Holy Spirit has, and we should have "Listening Love" where we want to understand the other person, encourage them in the truth that they have and encourage them to grow. Being saved "in the name of Jesus" is not righteousness by vocabulary, but the character of Jesus, even if they are in religions that don't understand the word "J-E-S-U-S". or where he has been misrepresented over the centuries where the word becomes a sore spot and we expect them to just give up centuries of pain and that they are lost because they are uncomfortable saying that word. But they may know HIM, Who he is. Praying in Jesus name means to pray for the same types of things Jesus would pray for. Our Jewish and Muslim friends have an amazing amount of truth, but may not see it, and instead of helping them to see what they already have, we want them to give the correct vocabulary. Jesus cries at this. Historians said that it is not clear how pious Manfred von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was, but his hero was Oswald Boelcke who was very pious and a devote follower of the Lord. Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Von Richthofen tried to imitate Boelcke's Christlikeness. Very different from others who admired Boelcke's prowess in shooting down enemy planes but not his character. Von Richthofen was more impressed by Boelcke's character than he was by Boelcke's ability to shoot down enemy planes. Von Richthofen was impressed by the way the character of Jesus was reflected in Boelcke. Is this not accepting Jesus? When I was at Andrews, going through the White Estate vault, I came across a document that I believe that Mrs. White wrote. Since I cannot go back and confirm this I will not say "Mrs. White said..." but I was going through her writings and as far as I know she said this. The document talked about "atheists" and the writer but them into two groups. The one group were "infidels" who were in rebellion against God. The second group was called "Honest doubters" who questioned how God can exist with different issues we face in the world, but they develop caring, kind characters. This writer saw heaven as having room for these "honest doubters." It's late, so this is a place to start.

For informational purposes, I am posting my approach to moderation as to posts that other people make: * I almost never make a change in what a person has posted. On rare occasions I correct a typo that is clearly a major error, and I may notify the author that I did so. * I generally edit in the following three areas: Civil: Debate the issue and do not attack the person. Porn: This is not a place to post photos of people not wearing clothing, as has been done many times in the past. Commercial: This forum costs money to operate. It is not generally a place to promote commercial activity. Every year, I have to deal with a person who promotes a roofing company. This is not a place for you to advertise your income producing service. NOTE: On a limited basis, I do post information related to materials and services that I believe foster Christianity. This thread remains open for comments.

thanks I am going to set up a different email address for paypal, this may take a couple of days, It is so appreciated

For those interested in knowing how I am related to the above: He is the head of a household related to me. He regularly posts on Facebook.

My understanding of the SAbbath, is focused on what God established at creation and not what the Jews practiced. That Sabbath did not begin with the Jews. It did not end with the coming of Christ's birth over 2,000 years ago.

We see what Jesus predicted would come between nations and would increase prior to the Second Coming. Matthew 24:7 King James Version (KJV) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. We don't have to look far today at the nations of the world or the events that are on the news. You may see leaders who say they are ending the conflicts and talk of peace and curtailing of war, but it just keeps going along with ethnic violence, ethnic cleansing, and worse as race conflict seems on everyone's lips. On the economic side, we see the instability of world markets and the value of commodities and goods evaporating, and distinctions between rich and poor is becoming horrendous, with billionaires pushing their agendas, and the monies being taken by their friends and allies. Economic woes and labour unrest are foretold for the last days, and we are seeing it with Unions having nurses and doctors go on strike, along with pilots and many others making unbelievable wages, while the poor can't find a job for minimum ones. We see the treasures being heaped high and the prophecies being fulfilled... James 5:3-4 King James Version (KJV) 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their poison will be a witness against you, and will eat your flesh as fire. You heaped treasure in the last days. 4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. The Seven Last Plagues are sent by God from heaven, angels pour out vials of His wraith upon the face of the earth, and they are laid out.. Grievous sores Fresh water sources become like blood Oceans also become like blood The sun scorching men with great heat A great darkness The Euphrates River drying up and unclean spirits And a destructive earthquake and hail. The Bible doesn’t give us a specific date for these plagues, but it does say that just before the second coming of Jesus, they will befall on the earth. They are similar to the plagues that fell on Egypt and will happen in the last days. They came just before the Jews were freed from slavery much like the saints are going to be freed from the bondage of sin at the second coming. So lets look at the Seven Last Plagues... Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. The plagues appear to fall after the close of probation as the saints are sealed during this time such as never was. Revelation 16:1-15 King James Version (KJV) 1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. 8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty We see where SOP also says the Great Time of Trouble begins after the close of probation, "When Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man's behalf, then this time of trouble will begin. Then the case of every soul will have been decided, and there will be no atoning blood to cleanse from sin. When Jesus leaves His position as man's intercessor before God the solemn announcement is made, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still" (Rev. 22:11). Then the restraining Spirit of God is withdrawn from the earth."--PP 201 (1890) Then we see the last climatic event which will be heard as well as felt across the nations and peoples... Revelation 16:15-21 King James Version (KJV) 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Ellen White's writings give that the plagues will fall like the ones in Egypt, one right after the other, and then a final cataclysmic event as the saints look for deliverance.. Satan's host and wicked men will surround them and exult over them because there will seem to be no way of escape for them. But in the midst of their revelry and triumph there is heard peal upon peal of the loudest thunder. The heavens have gathered blackness, and are only illuminated by the blazing light and terrible glory from heaven, as God utters His voice from His holy habitation. The foundations of the earth shake, buildings totter and fall with a terrible crash. The sea boils like a pot and the whole earth is in terrible commotion. The captivity of the righteous is turned, and with sweet and solemn whisperings they say to one another: "We are delivered. It is the voice of God."--1T 353, 354 (1862). It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. . . . In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying, "It is done" (Rev. 16:17). That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. . . . The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free.--GC 635-637 (1911).

? Wild highway Photo: Colorado Department of Transportation Construction is complete on what Colorado officials call North America's largest wildlife crossing — passing over a busy stretch of Interstate 25. Why it matters: The Greenland wildlife overpass covers a major migration zone for elk, mule deer, pronghorn, bears and mountain lions, Axios Denver's Alayna Alvarez writes. For decades, the freeway sliced through their routes, raising the risk of collisions. The new system will cut wildlife-vehicle crashes by 90%, Colorado transportation director Shoshana Lew estimates. At 209 feet long and 200 feet wide, the overpass spans six lanes of interstate traffic.

If you check out the "Jain" religion, they claim that the world is managed by 24 elders. It is one of the oldest religions with documentation of that. They are considered by those who consider things to be the most intellectual groups that have ever existed. uch ofmany of the sciences came from them. I have found them fascinating. Stan

That and the cellphones, the young people rarely pull their gaze away to even think on doing good for others, as they check to see what the 'latest' is in fashion, fads, or face creams to say the least, or ways to get more worldly possessions for themselves...

Do they not see that they are aligned with Apostate Protestants who are rapidly constructing an image to the Beast?

I don't think many in America think of themselves as socialists. Although in EU and Canada, there may be SDA's who consider themselves socialists. There are many people who believe it is our duty to help others. This includes public financial assistance, immigration assistance and legal assistance. They have a large compassion for people. In how we accomplish this, is where many disagreements come in. I know many people in America on both sides of the issue. They are not bad people. They are good people with different solutions. Some are very passionate about their views.

I started my online apologetics efforts back when "web t.v." was available to buy. I was so impressed with it I bought my Dad one to use. Since those days I've been on multiple forums and compliment this forum for being so welcoming and allowing others who don't share the same faith traditions to share what they believe openly without being subject to perpetual attack. I've been very impressed with Stan and Pastor Matthews - you guys run a quality ship.

A fundamental error that many Christians engage in, including SDAs, is to consider the main focus of the Sabbath to be that of worship. The purpose of the Sabbath, as it began in Eden, was to spend a day with God and to grow spiritually. It was a day separate from the routine duties that Adam and Eve had in Eden. Rather the focus was on God and getting to know God better in a close association with God. Worship is a small part of that, even if important. Worship can be on multiple days of the week. I have probably conducted more worship services on Sundays, than I have on Saturdays. Adventists often have worship services in a series of meetings that are held on multiple days of the week. There is nothing wrong with either my holding worship services on Sunday mornings, or with SDA clergy holding revival meetings on days other than the Sabbath. The spiritual error occurs with Christians, whether Adventist or otherwise, fail to understand the spiritual blessing that we experience in spending the day with God, on the Sabbath that God has established as a special day to commune with us.

The best way to deal with homosexual friends and family is to treat them with respect, dignity, friendship - which includes minding your own business. One of the greatest evils of Christianity is its tendency to attract to its ranks busybodies who are obsessed with what other people do in private with their genitals.