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In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

We are living in a time when it is important not to be misunderstood. The bottom line is that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a terrible crime. He was not a perfect person, but that does not negate the fact that it was a terrible crime. In an effort to prevent misunderstanding, I am asking that we refrain from commenting on any imperfections that we may think are related to him, regardless of whether they are true or not. Violations of my request will be considered for removal. NOTE: I have discussed this with Stan who is aware of my decision.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

I believe the earth is around 6000 years old. I believe the creation of this planet happened in 6 days. I believe God created man from the dust of the earth.

There are only two movements in Christianity today with spiritual force behind it, Adventism and the church of Rome. The others are letting go of their foundations and drifting towards Rome or worse..

Many years ago, I reported to the police an old acquaintance who was involved in the heroin trade. I felt a bit guilty for betraying him, so I told him what I had done. One evening, I was walking along a dark street and a carload of guys. with him in the car, drove by real slow, taking a look at me. I reached into the pocket of the oversize coat I was wearing; they drove away. Bluffing might be option when dealing with potential or actual drive by shooters. I was lucky that night.

My father was a Adventist minister, so I grew up listening to innumerable sermons and Daniel and Revelation prophecy series, and my mother did the various church and health messages, think '5 day plan to stop smoking', and I knew what was coming for each night. But, come to the present as we are getting to the final days, and I sometimes seem to struggle in what sermon to bring before the brethren, as I volunteer for the sermon as a elder. I thought I was the only one, that some weeks I had no idea what sermon for this time to preach about, till almost the day of the sermon. But I have become aware that others also struggle to find what they should preach especially after hitting all the major points and beliefs, especially for the last days and prophecy. It might be that some are between ideas for what the brethren need or just struggling for ideas. If we who preach as lay preachers were all honest, we’ve come across this, or come to the point of asking, ”What do the people need?” So how do you find a message, especially for these last days, from God’s Word that your church needs and you are excited about?

I was talking to a friend in Michigan this week. He was at Dr Weavers church about 6 months ago. The Doc was teaching his regular Sabbath school. At 102 years old. They had a birthday party for him at the church when he turned 100. I bet it was well attended. He held stop smoking clinics all over the Detroit area for many years. Some of those former smokers are members of that church.

Arthur Weaver was 102 years old. He had cancer surgery about two years ago. He was ill with a cold, that later must have become worse. He founded a church with help of others in Plymouth Michigan. It is in a residential area. Very peaceful surroundings. There is one long winding driveway. On the way out is a small sign. I will paraphrase it from memory. You are now entering the most difficult mission field in the world.

Recently the Federal Centers for Disease Control published an 8-page report on the dangers of the natural herb Kratom. It is widely used, and freely sold in most of the united States by people who consider it to be a healthful way to address some of the common concerns of daily life. What is often not understood is how addictive and dangerous it can be, especially in some of the forms in which it is sold. Withdrawal will often require medical supervision. The following article will explain this in more detail. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/75/wr/mm7511a1.htm?s_cid=OS_mm7511a1_w My assumption is that as it is becoming popular in our society in the U.S, it is also being used by Adventists who see it as a safe natural product,and have no understanding as to how lethal it can be. If we as a Church decry the use of tobacco and alcoholic drinks, I suggest we need to warn our members as to the dangers of Kratom. The above CDC publication provides enough information for several articles for authors to use. On a personal basis, my second son ended his life in 2024 while attempting to withdraw from Kratom usage that was not medically supervised. His story is told in the following article which will inform to a greater degree. https://atoday.org/the-day-my-son-took-his-own-life/ NOTE: I have an agreement with the above publisher that permission will be granted free of charge for the article to be republished. Gregory Matthews

Gustave, yes, there once was an SDA Church in San Francisco that was more liberal than the typical SDA church. I do not know that it ever allowed such marriages. In any case, that experiment ended some years ago. I once was a member of a large SDA congregation that had a homosexual couple who attended. But, they were not members. I am aware of another SDA congregation that accepted a homosexual couple into membership. The pastor was expelled from ministry. Other action resulted related to another clergy person. But, the couple remained members.

Extremely well said! I'm going to incorporate this into my knowledge base! Humbling!

Reading Ellen white: How to understand and apply her writings, written by George Knight, is probably the best book that has been published on this subject. It can be purchased form Amazon.

I made a post on a social media, which was my opinion, that Israel and friends need to liberate Gazians from Hamas just as the Allies and Russia liberated Germans from Nazis. I still believe that. I do not expect everyone else to. If you befriend a Gasian so they will trust you, most would say the same thing. They are aware that Hamas has paid informants who try to abstract that from Gazians and then remove their remaining family from being alive. They may never trust you enough; they all have heard stories, fictional or not, of such. Back to the topic, many long-term friends blocked me over that. I suspect most of them were left-leaning, but I could be wrong. Has anyone else had that kind of experience? Stan

They told their clergy to ensure the will is up to date, as they may end up giving their lives for their neighbours. https://www.npr.org/2026/01/18/nx-s1-5678579/ice-clashes-new-hampshire-bishop-urges-clergy-prepare-wills#:~:text=Bishop Rob Hirschfeld in the,Hirschfeld's comments quickly went viral.

I recommend the book by HMS Richards, "Feed My Sheep" . It changed my preaching. It was compiled from his training for pastors.

The celebration of the Passover is explained by various conversations by the characters in this episode. It informs viewers that do not have a Christian background what was happening during this feast. In one scene the high priest is dining with King Herod. They are discussing Jesus and it is presented in such a way that the high priest is clearly threatened by Jesus while King Herod sees Jesus as harmless. We know that Jesus was not a threat to the civil government of Rome. He was a threat to the Jewish religious leadership. After the resurrection and ascension, the new Christian sect was such a threat to Jewish leadership that they became persecuted. We see in this story the "church" and the "state". Jesus was not a threat to the state but was a threat to the church. The state is all about power and treasure in this world. The church is about power and treasure in the world to come. The episode comes to a climax with the cleansing of the temple. Jesus overturns the tables and runs the livestock and vendors out. It is very forceful. It is noteworthy that the Jewish people were expecting the Messiah to come and free them from Rome. They expected the Messiah to attack Rome. However, the Messiah did not attack Rome. He attacked the erroring Jewish establishment. During the first season, Jesus met with Nicodemus. The light came on for Nicodemus when he realized the Messiah didn't come to free them from Rome but rather to free them from sin. Cleansing the temple is an active illustration of Jesus freeing us from sin. The Jewish religion had become rigid legalism. Rigid legalism traps us in sin. If Jesus was here today, would He be trying to reform civil government or would He be focusing on the church? The reality is that Jesus is here today as He lives in those that believe in Him. Should our focus be on the civil government or on the church? How can we be free from legalism and fulfill the purpose God has for us at this time?

What kind of person would be willing to lay down his life for an 'undesirable'

I have in person and online, we had some here,

Is it possible for humans to have some organs that have a XX configuration and other organs that have a XY configuration? " Intersex people might have sex organs that include both XX and XY sex characteristics. " See : https://scienceline.org/2020/10/beyond-x-y-chromosomes-and-sex-organs/ NOTE: i first learned about this many years ago when I was a chaplain to a large military police unit (Brigade). This has implications for the use of genetic material in criminal investigations.

? Pic du jour Photo: Stewart Verdery Reader Stewart Verdery — who's sent us some brilliant parting shots over the years — tells us: "I actually think this was the coolest photo of 2025." "On a transatlantic flight in September into Dulles, I ... happened to look over and see the sunset from 35,000 feet over the Atlantic. Looks like the sun is sitting on top of the clouds."

We see what Jesus predicted would come between nations and would increase prior to the Second Coming. Matthew 24:7 King James Version (KJV) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. We don't have to look far today at the nations of the world or the events that are on the news. You may see leaders who say they are ending the conflicts and talk of peace and curtailing of war, but it just keeps going along with ethnic violence, ethnic cleansing, and worse as race conflict seems on everyone's lips. On the economic side, we see the instability of world markets and the value of commodities and goods evaporating, and distinctions between rich and poor is becoming horrendous, with billionaires pushing their agendas, and the monies being taken by their friends and allies. Economic woes and labour unrest are foretold for the last days, and we are seeing it with Unions having nurses and doctors go on strike, along with pilots and many others making unbelievable wages, while the poor can't find a job for minimum ones. We see the treasures being heaped high and the prophecies being fulfilled... James 5:3-4 King James Version (KJV) 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their poison will be a witness against you, and will eat your flesh as fire. You heaped treasure in the last days. 4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. The Seven Last Plagues are sent by God from heaven, angels pour out vials of His wraith upon the face of the earth, and they are laid out.. Grievous sores Fresh water sources become like blood Oceans also become like blood The sun scorching men with great heat A great darkness The Euphrates River drying up and unclean spirits And a destructive earthquake and hail. The Bible doesn’t give us a specific date for these plagues, but it does say that just before the second coming of Jesus, they will befall on the earth. They are similar to the plagues that fell on Egypt and will happen in the last days. They came just before the Jews were freed from slavery much like the saints are going to be freed from the bondage of sin at the second coming. So lets look at the Seven Last Plagues... Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. The plagues appear to fall after the close of probation as the saints are sealed during this time such as never was. Revelation 16:1-15 King James Version (KJV) 1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. 8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty We see where SOP also says the Great Time of Trouble begins after the close of probation, "When Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man's behalf, then this time of trouble will begin. Then the case of every soul will have been decided, and there will be no atoning blood to cleanse from sin. When Jesus leaves His position as man's intercessor before God the solemn announcement is made, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still" (Rev. 22:11). Then the restraining Spirit of God is withdrawn from the earth."--PP 201 (1890) Then we see the last climatic event which will be heard as well as felt across the nations and peoples... Revelation 16:15-21 King James Version (KJV) 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Ellen White's writings give that the plagues will fall like the ones in Egypt, one right after the other, and then a final cataclysmic event as the saints look for deliverance.. Satan's host and wicked men will surround them and exult over them because there will seem to be no way of escape for them. But in the midst of their revelry and triumph there is heard peal upon peal of the loudest thunder. The heavens have gathered blackness, and are only illuminated by the blazing light and terrible glory from heaven, as God utters His voice from His holy habitation. The foundations of the earth shake, buildings totter and fall with a terrible crash. The sea boils like a pot and the whole earth is in terrible commotion. The captivity of the righteous is turned, and with sweet and solemn whisperings they say to one another: "We are delivered. It is the voice of God."--1T 353, 354 (1862). It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. . . . In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying, "It is done" (Rev. 16:17). That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. . . . The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free.--GC 635-637 (1911).

Here is Kirk Cameron who has publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it, calling such a fate 'cruel and unusual punishment.' Cameron says that the Bible, especially in its Old Testament writing, does not depict the souls of the wicked as immortal. Instead, the only souls promised eternal life ' immortality' are those granted to believers. https://endtimeheadlines.org/2025/12/kirk-cameron-no-longer-believes-in-eternal-punishment/ ...Kirk Cameron no longer believes in eternal punishment (OPINION) In a recent episode of his show, Kirk Cameron publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is a relatively young Protestant denomination that was first formally organized in 1863. It has five major areas of ministry: education, publishing, media, healthcare, and foreign missions. Today (2025) it has some 23- million baptized members. Fundamental to its understanding of the purpose of congregations is the thought that people are on a spiritual journey that implies growth over time. In other words, individual members will typically be at different stages of spiritual understanding and growth. From this perspective, individual SDA members exhibit a wider range of belief and practice than is commonly understood by the public. SDA congregations are both united in belief and also may have some differences in how spiritual belief is practiced in daily life. Officially SDA beliefs fall into two categories. Baptismal Vows are a subset of beliefs that are expected to be held by those who are baptized, and join the denomination. Fundamental Beliefs are officially the teachings that each pastor is expected to teach and individual congregations to hold. Yet, from a practical manner, the spectra of understanding those and how they are practiced in daily life is wider than most people understand.

October 20, 2025 Ellen White is one of several people who were foundational to the mission and development of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Whatever one might think of her ministry, she cannot be dismissed. Her influence did not end with her death more than 100 years ago. Her many writings remain and are often quoted today. Yet, they are often misunderstood. With the passage of much time, the story of her life and ministry has generated some of what I call pious fiction. This is often laudatory and celebrated with good intent by people who believe it, but it may lack documentation. SDA pious fiction should not be cons considered to be unusual. The story of Christianity in general and the development of the Protestant and Catholic groups also contain such material. People want to know the history of important organizations in their lives. They want to think of them as flawless and in a positive manner. Such is not reality. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is not perfect. The last time I read of an imperfection in SDA Church was yesterday in a report of an SDA pastor who will likely be tried in a criminal court. Ellen White was human, imperfect and fallible. In honoring her ministry to the SDA Church, she should not be glorified beyond her humanity. God used her, while she was an imperfect human. God can use us, imperfect as we may be. My purpose in this thread is to inform our readers of important sources of information related to her life and ministry. Some will focus on her life, and others will focus on her ministry. Some will attempt to dispel our resident pious fictions. Others will attempt to present her writings in a proper manner for usage. This will include understanding how she developed them. For the moment, I will lock this thread. I will decide later whether to unlock it. This will likely take some time to develop. Today, I am busy with distributing food to the needy. But, I will work on developing this thread. Blessings on all.

In recent yars, the U.S. military has failed to meet it/s enlistment goals. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/the-military-s-recruiting-surge/ar-AA1QhJcb?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=6914e24354594c9f84d681b68dcb3fb2&ei=24 This ended in fiscal year 2025, when most enlistment goals were met.

The above video lasts for close to 2 hours. I am about 90 minutes into watching it. I will finish later. One point; It suggests that the White Estate was not the major player in banning the book, rather it was Pacific Press. The book and discussion clearly informed that the messages of Ellen White came from multiple sources, some of which were clearly human. I found it very helpful to understand that from this perspective that her use of the phrase "I was shown." should not be limited to divine sources but clearly include her human sources.

To what extent should SDAs be considered people who are attempting to be Jewish? That is the question explored in the following article. It is well worth reading and also has comparisons with Catholics and other Protestant groups. https://atoday.org/are-adventists-trying-to-be-jewish/

Something very similar happens in different species of animals.. You may think that is a joke but the joke might be on you. They cannot reproduce ,behavior in a herd setting the behavior can be disruptive and is counterproductive to keep alive. In animals there isn't any reason to try to determine if there is a dominant gender. They literally can behave as male one day and female the next I don't know about all species but sheep, goats ,angora goats can produce unisex ofspring. There are characteristics you need to be aware of in a breeding program. Polled to polled will result in a unisex ofspring. Not always, and many are willing to take the chance to eliminate a horned animal. We had in happen twice with livestock. Unisex ofspring ,neither one or the other. Once with our registered blue merle collie something with the coloring could produce deaf offspring among other deficits. Blue merle collies mated can produce a beautiful white collie that is deaf. I believe there are other deficits but at the moment cannot remember them. It was interesting in that the "unisex" offspring were absolutely beautiful. If something can go so haywire in the animal kingdom how are you so sure something cant in humans? However I think it is rarity I listened to a discussion between Charlie Kirk and a woman in the audience. She could not define what a woman was. She claimed it was whatever you wanted the definition to be and that male/female was a society construct. I don't believe it is a epidemic as people make out. When people cannot define what a woman is and they answer "depends" when asked, I personally think there is a screw loose.

When I began this task, I expected to quickly finish it. I really did not understand the amount of material available on Adventism, that was of good quality. I soon came to realize that I could not list it all. So, the above is simply a summary. Enjoy. May it be a blessing to you. I will now unlock this thread. Gregory Matthews

People some time ask how one can believe in a creation by God and also that new species come to exist and die out, as i believe. The question is valid, but based upon a misunderstanding of what the Bible actually says, I will suggest. Genesis, chapter one clearly states, in multiple places that God created every "kind" of life that exists. But, the meaning of the word "kind" is never defined. Science gives a two-word title to every form of life that exists. The first word establishes a Genus for that form of life. The second word establishes a Species. As an example, human life has been given the scientific name Homo sapiens. A question is: If the Bible says that God created every "kind" of life, is it saying that God directly created every species that exists? My answer is no. I do not believe that such is being said. I have no idea as to what the Bible means when it uses the word "kind." I have no problem with believing that new species come into existence and die out.

A fundamental error that many Christians engage in, including SDAs, is to consider the main focus of the Sabbath to be that of worship. The purpose of the Sabbath, as it began in Eden, was to spend a day with God and to grow spiritually. It was a day separate from the routine duties that Adam and Eve had in Eden. Rather the focus was on God and getting to know God better in a close association with God. Worship is a small part of that, even if important. Worship can be on multiple days of the week. I have probably conducted more worship services on Sundays, than I have on Saturdays. Adventists often have worship services in a series of meetings that are held on multiple days of the week. There is nothing wrong with either my holding worship services on Sunday mornings, or with SDA clergy holding revival meetings on days other than the Sabbath. The spiritual error occurs with Christians, whether Adventist or otherwise, fail to understand the spiritual blessing that we experience in spending the day with God, on the Sabbath that God has established as a special day to commune with us.

The best way to deal with homosexual friends and family is to treat them with respect, dignity, friendship - which includes minding your own business. One of the greatest evils of Christianity is its tendency to attract to its ranks busybodies who are obsessed with what other people do in private with their genitals.