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In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

We are living in a time when it is important not to be misunderstood. The bottom line is that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a terrible crime. He was not a perfect person, but that does not negate the fact that it was a terrible crime. In an effort to prevent misunderstanding, I am asking that we refrain from commenting on any imperfections that we may think are related to him, regardless of whether they are true or not. Violations of my request will be considered for removal. NOTE: I have discussed this with Stan who is aware of my decision.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

I believe the earth is around 6000 years old. I believe the creation of this planet happened in 6 days. I believe God created man from the dust of the earth.

For generations, scientists have viewed the inability to regrow lost body parts as one of the fundamental limitations of humans and other mammals. While creatures such as salamanders can regenerate entire limbs, humans typically heal injuries by forming scar tissue. New research from the Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences (VMBS), however, suggests that regenerative abilities may not be entirely absent in mammals. Instead, they could be hidden within the body's normal healing machinery, waiting to be activated under the right conditions. "Why some animals can regenerate and others, particularly humans, can't is a big question that has been asked since Aristotle," said Dr. Ken Muneoka, a professor in the VMBS' Department of Veterinary Physiology & Pharmacology (VTPP). "I've spent my career trying to understand that." In a study published in Nature Communications, Muneoka and colleagues describe a new two-step treatment that enabled the regeneration of bone, joint structures, and ligaments. Although the regrown tissues were not perfect replicas of the originals, the researchers believe the approach could eventually help reduce scarring and improve tissue repair after amputations. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260618041508.htm

Intellectual integrity in Adventist scholarship is examined in the following article by a Seminary scholar: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/columns/what-of-intellectual-integrity/

Many years ago, I reported to the police an old acquaintance who was involved in the heroin trade. I felt a bit guilty for betraying him, so I told him what I had done. One evening, I was walking along a dark street and a carload of guys. with him in the car, drove by real slow, taking a look at me. I reached into the pocket of the oversize coat I was wearing; they drove away. Bluffing might be option when dealing with potential or actual drive by shooters. I was lucky that night.

“It is not earthly rank, nor birth, nor nationality, nor religious privilege, which proves that we are members of the family of God; it is love, a love that embraces all humanity. ” EGW So is she saying we do not have to answer 28 questions?

My father was a Adventist minister, so I grew up listening to innumerable sermons and Daniel and Revelation prophecy series, and my mother did the various church and health messages, think '5 day plan to stop smoking', and I knew what was coming for each night. But, come to the present as we are getting to the final days, and I sometimes seem to struggle in what sermon to bring before the brethren, as I volunteer for the sermon as a elder. I thought I was the only one, that some weeks I had no idea what sermon for this time to preach about, till almost the day of the sermon. But I have become aware that others also struggle to find what they should preach especially after hitting all the major points and beliefs, especially for the last days and prophecy. It might be that some are between ideas for what the brethren need or just struggling for ideas. If we who preach as lay preachers were all honest, we’ve come across this, or come to the point of asking, ”What do the people need?” So how do you find a message, especially for these last days, from God’s Word that your church needs and you are excited about?

Gustave, I agree. Let's step back a moment and survey the damage done in the Middle East recently. As I watch smuggled videos about Israel, it appears the area above ground is 90% destroyed. Gaza is destroyed, Lebanon is pretty much destroyed. Syria is pretty much destroyed. Iran has been damaged, but it is hard to tell how much. However, things are not over, and I think it is likely to be destroyed like the others. In our lifetime, or the last 250 years, we have never seen war and destruction like this in the Middle East. The destruction is almost as complete as Europe in the 1940s. This is very historic. The Middle East will not recover economically for another 20-30 or 40 years, if the pattern of post-war Europe is followed. What does this mean? Many people are focusing on the trees and not seeing the forest or the future.

Even more so now. The division has never been greater in North America. We cannot forget the division of Vax vs Non-Vax Now we have a divide about illegal immigrants and ICE. In Lake Union this has become a problem. My friends tell me that church attendance is down in many white churches, and people are watching on the internet. I can see a correlation to the controversial issues. The next dividing topic will be the war in Iran. It seems like lots of shaking in North America. Let us not forget, the NAD makes up less than 10% of the Adventist Church.

The following is a lilting of the materials that are commonly included in the Apocrypha. In some cases, I may have shortened the title from what is the title as included in Bibles. Also, I do not list in the order in which they are included in the Bibles. If you wish to read the following, they are probably all available on the Internet. 1st Maccabees: This book is considered to be the best history that we have of the specific period of time that it describes. 2nd Maccabees: This book is thought to have some historical value for the covered period of time, but not as much as the one directly above. NOTE: Two other similar (3rd & 4th) versions did not make it into the cannon of any present Christian group. The Three Holy Children: This section tells the story of the three who were thrown into the furnace of fire, their conversations while they were in the furnace, and their deliverance. Susanna: This is the story of a woman falsely accused of immoral conduct. Daniel steps in to defend her and proves her innocent. It is an addition to the book of Daniel. Bel and the Dragon: This is a fanciful story of Daniel who destroyed the Babylonian god Bel, and also a dragon god, who was then thrown into the den of lions for 6-days during which God fed Daniel., 1st Esdras: This is a long story of how Cyrus allowed the Jews to return from their captivity in Babylon to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. 2nd Esdras: This book begins with the story of God delivering the Jews from Egypt. It has a focus on End Time Events that differs from the other book. Prayer of Manasses: He is a captive in Babylon. This is his prayer asking for forgiveness. Tobit: This is the story of a righteous man on a journey, accompanied by an angel of God who encounters an evil spirit. He heals people with gall. One person dies at 185 years of age. Tobit dies at 127 years of age. Judith: In this story, God uses the woman, Judith to deliver Israel from the enemy. It differs some, but, is similar to the story of Jael killing Sisera in Judges 4:17-22. Additions to Esther: These additions to the book of Esther expand upon the story of the attempt to kill the Jews and how Esther approached the King to request that they be saved. Wisdom of Solomon: This is simply alleged to be the teachings of King Solomon. Christians would likely agree with much. Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus: This is a collection of the teachings of a man named Jesus who lived many years prior to Jesus the Christ. Baruch: this book was written to Jews in captivity in Babylon. It states that such happened due to their sins and assures them that if they repent, God will deliver them and return them to their previous land.

Gustave, yes, there once was an SDA Church in San Francisco that was more liberal than the typical SDA church. I do not know that it ever allowed such marriages. In any case, that experiment ended some years ago. I once was a member of a large SDA congregation that had a homosexual couple who attended. But, they were not members. I am aware of another SDA congregation that accepted a homosexual couple into membership. The pastor was expelled from ministry. Other action resulted related to another clergy person. But, the couple remained members.

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.

Extremely well said! I'm going to incorporate this into my knowledge base! Humbling!

Very well written, thank you. Israel, as a nation, has some of the best laws for the protection of religious liberty. That is seldom talked about. In the Israeli military, there are Muslims fighting against Hamas to protect their country. That is seldom talked about. We have all benefited from the inventions and innovations of the Children of Israel. That is seldom talked about.

But two years later, on July 4, at the 2025 GC Session in St. Louis, Missouri, out of the almost 2,000 session delegates who had just heard Wilson’s official “President’s Report”—a telling of everything the church accomplished under his 15-year-long leadership—only 188 of the floor delegates voted for him. The vast majority clearly decided that the church can, in fact, survive without him. Wilson was not reelected president, and Erton Köhler succeeded him with over 90 percent approval. In the first 6 months, it appears he is doing what he said he would. More focus on humanitarian efforts and programs. He appears to be reduced intensity. So far he is doing a great job.

I saw a YT short of a woman saying "I am glad Charlie Kirk is dead. He got what he deserved". A comment was that some people are evil now. It is evil to wish people dead. Is there a growing spirit of evil in America? We always talk about a shaking time in the church, but could there be a shaking time in the general population?

I start out with the idea that "Hell Fire" is God present in person in all God's love, beauty and glory that purifies and calls out the best in everyone. Some people will find this heaven, but others who have not wanted the best in them to be in control will find it very, very uncomfortable to be with him. Jesus is their deepest desire, they long to run into his loving arms; but they don't know him. They are unforgiving people and thus cannot comprehend forgiveness. They picture what they would do to someone like themselves if they were God. They want to run to him but refuse to yield to this deepest desire. They want to but won't. In the end God treats everyone the same, but our choices depend on how we respond. While this comes from Ellen White, I believe that it's Biblical. She pictures us seeing Jesus coming in the clouds and we are overwhelmed and ask "Who shall be able to stand?" There is a moment of horrible silence, then Jesus says [sings?] "My grace is sufficient for you!" To these words we find two responses. Some realize "Yes, this is my friend Jesus and his grace is sufficient for me! This is my God and He will save me!" Jesus does not say "My grace is sufficient for you Stan and for you Matthew, but sorry Kevin, it's not sufficient for you." Jesus says to each and every one of us "My grace is sufficient for you." Some believe him, others have just had their ear drums vibrate to the sweetest sound it ever heard telling them that his grace is sufficient for them, but they do not believe him. They think he is lying and they run to the rocks... Heaven is total reality. In a lot of ways hell is the rejection of reality as they become slaves to the figment of their imagination. Building on this are the three aspects of the trinity, the issues of the great controversy which creatures need to ask if God is who God claims to be or not, and the mystery of how Lucifer instead of looking for the answers to this question, turned the question into three deceptions one against each member of the trinity. The Holy Spirit works with every heart. Every group/religion has a mixture of truth, error, misunderstandings and superstitions. The monotheistic religions have more truth available to them, especially as they accept the Bible and aspects of the Bible, but many with much truth available don't take advantage of this gift, while many with less available treasure what they have. The Holy Spirit has, and we should have "Listening Love" where we want to understand the other person, encourage them in the truth that they have and encourage them to grow. Being saved "in the name of Jesus" is not righteousness by vocabulary, but the character of Jesus, even if they are in religions that don't understand the word "J-E-S-U-S". or where he has been misrepresented over the centuries where the word becomes a sore spot and we expect them to just give up centuries of pain and that they are lost because they are uncomfortable saying that word. But they may know HIM, Who he is. Praying in Jesus name means to pray for the same types of things Jesus would pray for. Our Jewish and Muslim friends have an amazing amount of truth, but may not see it, and instead of helping them to see what they already have, we want them to give the correct vocabulary. Jesus cries at this. Historians said that it is not clear how pious Manfred von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was, but his hero was Oswald Boelcke who was very pious and a devote follower of the Lord. Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Von Richthofen tried to imitate Boelcke's Christlikeness. Very different from others who admired Boelcke's prowess in shooting down enemy planes but not his character. Von Richthofen was more impressed by Boelcke's character than he was by Boelcke's ability to shoot down enemy planes. Von Richthofen was impressed by the way the character of Jesus was reflected in Boelcke. Is this not accepting Jesus? When I was at Andrews, going through the White Estate vault, I came across a document that I believe that Mrs. White wrote. Since I cannot go back and confirm this I will not say "Mrs. White said..." but I was going through her writings and as far as I know she said this. The document talked about "atheists" and the writer but them into two groups. The one group were "infidels" who were in rebellion against God. The second group was called "Honest doubters" who questioned how God can exist with different issues we face in the world, but they develop caring, kind characters. This writer saw heaven as having room for these "honest doubters." It's late, so this is a place to start.

I have in person and online, we had some here,

thanks I am going to set up a different email address for paypal, this may take a couple of days, It is so appreciated

Is it possible for humans to have some organs that have a XX configuration and other organs that have a XY configuration? " Intersex people might have sex organs that include both XX and XY sex characteristics. " See : https://scienceline.org/2020/10/beyond-x-y-chromosomes-and-sex-organs/ NOTE: i first learned about this many years ago when I was a chaplain to a large military police unit (Brigade). This has implications for the use of genetic material in criminal investigations.

Animals have such personalities. A couple of years ago a stray cat showed up, first at my sisters, but then two days later she walked right in my door as I opened it and she made herself at home. She only lets me stay there as long as I'm a faithful hired help.

For those interested in knowing how I am related to the above: He is the head of a household related to me. He regularly posts on Facebook.

My understanding of the SAbbath, is focused on what God established at creation and not what the Jews practiced. That Sabbath did not begin with the Jews. It did not end with the coming of Christ's birth over 2,000 years ago.

In my opinion, none of this matters much. For over 100 years, the church has been preaching about the Judgment. This is the next big event that counts. The Judgment of the living. I talked about it here : If we don't get pardoned in the judgment, nothing else matters. I believe the judgment of the living is going on right now.

* The Ten Commandments is not the primary reason that Seventh-day Adventists teach that Christians should keep the Sabbath. * The SDA teaching on the Sabbath is founded on their belief in the Creation story in early Genesis in which God set apart a 7th day to met with humanlity and grow us spiritualy.

Here is Kirk Cameron who has publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it, calling such a fate 'cruel and unusual punishment.' Cameron says that the Bible, especially in its Old Testament writing, does not depict the souls of the wicked as immortal. Instead, the only souls promised eternal life ' immortality' are those granted to believers. https://endtimeheadlines.org/2025/12/kirk-cameron-no-longer-believes-in-eternal-punishment/ ...Kirk Cameron no longer believes in eternal punishment (OPINION) In a recent episode of his show, Kirk Cameron publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it

All salvation comes from God's gracious attitude towards us through what Jesus did for us. At the end of time God will treat everyone the same. God will show up in all his beauty, love, glory, and overwhelming event. Some will find this event to be heaven, others will find this event to be hell. Like when the divinity flashed through Jesus when cleaning the temple (at least at the second cleaning.) People ran in two directions. The money changers were running away, while the children, poor and lame were running to him (and remember Jesus had a whip. How often do you find children running with joy to someone holding a whip? Yet, this is what happened when Jesus showed his "wrath".) Only this time there is no place to flee as God's glory fills the whole world. Everyone is born with a few things: Different levels of intelligence, cultures, environments, points in history. We all have in us two attitudes fighting. One is our deepest desire, to want to love the world on an honest basic, to be fair, to love the world as Jesus has loved it. Fighting this is a weaker, but often placed in power in our lives, a disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. A disposition to esteem ourselves more highly than others, to serve self, to seek the highest place, to manipulate or try to manipulate others especially through things such as criticizing, complaining, blaming, nagging, threatening, punishing, rewarding to control. We also seem to have been born with our temperaments, two out of five possible love languages, two out of five possible apology languages, and our attachment styles. The Holy Spirit works with every person, pointing them to the character ("name") of God as our personal friend (God the Son). All religions have varying amounts of truth and superstitions. People make choices of reaching out to or rejecting the character of God as our personal friend, through the two principles of somehow reaching out to what or whoever may be out there and from this to love their neighbors as themselves. The three monotheistic religions have available WITHIN their framework a looking beyond the forces of nature to the creator. The two based on the Bible have even more truth available to them, with of course the Christians open to study the Bible with the insight that God the Son came and lived among us, and additional insights from records of his life and insights from those who directly witnessed seeing him, including seeing him after the resurrection, or records of people who had direct connection to these witnesses. Protestantism has a mindset of reading the Bible and making the Bible the final authority. And Seventh-day Adventists have the great controversy philosophy (which archaeology has pointed out was a big issue for the ancient world where the Bible was written, but which we have lost sight of in culture.) Now, just because we have more information available to us does not mean that we are allowing them to affect our lives and thinking. People with less information may cherish what they understand while people with more information may ignore it. All may be drawn away by traditions and superstitions. From this I cannot say that all religions lead to God; but God and Satan both have people in all religions. The big issue is HIS CHARACTER, Who HE is, What he did for us. The Holy Spirit working on our hearts to point us in the direction of the character of God as personal friend, and from this to God being the great power and ultimate authority. Sadly, too many Christians turn the salvation through God's gracious character and who HE is, to salvation through being a Christian, salvation through the religion. The false thinking that a Jew, Muslim or other cannot be saved because they are not "Christians" That they have not said the right things about Jesus and give the history lesson about what Jesus did for us. Anwar Sadat was raised by his mother and grandmother with a simple faith of trusting in Allah. In college he got into a more complex nationalistic political form of Islam. Yet, he still had a love for God. He spent so many hours in prayer that a callus formed on his forehead. When he lost the 1973 war, he felt responsible for all the deaths. He turned his back on the more complicated political version of Islam and turned to the simple faith of his mother and grandmother. He realized that he needed to forge a peace with Israel. At Camp David, there were three men of faith and prayer, a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian. They stopped their work at prayer times and were able to work out a solution. In Psalm 23:5 it says that the Lord prepares a table in the presence of enemies. To the ancient world this means forgiveness and reconciliation. After Camp David was arranged, a table for the enemies of Egypt and Israel meet for the reconciliation meal. Now, people wondered about a personal event in this feast. Sadat and Golda Mier had totally hated each other on a personal level. They had never mentioned the other by name. Sadat would only call her "That Old Lady" and she would only call him "That Egyptian." Yes, there was the table of forgiveness for the politics of the two governments, but what about these two individuals? In the receiving line, as these two bitter enemies came face to face, Mier said "Mr. President, what took you so long? At these words Sadat just started laughing, and Mier just started laughing. The hatred they had for each other melted. (I don't remember for sure but I believe that I read/heard that they made a joke about the names they gave each other.) The table of forgiveness became not only political between states, but was also personal between these two individuals who remained friends for the rest of their lives. These actions were accepting and reflecting the character of God the Son, and coming to the power of God the Father through God as personal friend. They are saved through how they accepted the character of God the Son. (and as you look at Sadat, the impact of God upon his life, and how he decided to stand for the right even though it lead to his martyrdom, indicates that he could have well have reached what Ellen White describes as last generation perfection.) Dr. Chan was a Buddhist dentist living in Cambodia. When he heard that the Khmer Rouge came to power, he threw his glasses off his face and stomped on them on the floor, ran home got his family and moved to a part of Cambodia where no one knew who they were and they pretended to be ignorant illiterates. Eventually they were able to go to a refugee camp in Thailand. There were Baptists working in the camps to help the refugees and shared the story about Jesus. The Chan family converted from Buddhism to Christianity. Later they came to southern California where there were Seventh-day Adventists helping the refugees, and they decided to learn more about Seventh-day Adventism and decided to become Seventh-day Adventists. One Sabbath at church, one of the women who were helping the refugees noticed that Dr. Chan's body tightened and went pale. He started shaking and ran out of the church. She went after him to find out what was wrong. She found him on the lawn of the church just shaking and repeating the words "It's him! It's him..." As he was asked what was wrong, Dr. Chan replied "You may find this crazy, but as a child I knew that I had a special friend. Now, I could not see him nor hear him, yet he has always been just as real to me at my friends who I could see and hear. I believe that he helped me to remove and trample on my glasses. I believe that he lead me and my family as we looked for someplace we were unknown, and that he lead to Thailand and finally to the United States. Even though I became a Christian in Thailand, today, for the first time in my life I realize that this special, life long friend of mine is Jesus!" Religions can be a help or a hindrance, but from all religious beliefs (even secularism and so called atheism -- I have not come over this document's words anyplace else for me to absolutely say that it was by Ellen White, but I came across it in the EGW vault at Andrews, and I believe that it was written by Sister White, but this document placed "atheists" into two different groups. One was labeled, infidels. But the author also gave a second group of atheists labeled "Honest Doubters" and that heaven has room for the "Honest Doubters." Whether the writer was Mrs. White or not, I agree with that document. There is the issue of faith that transcends religions. When you read about the Norwegian revivalist Hans Nielsen Hague, or the character of World War I German ace Oswald Boelcke, and how World War I ace Manfred von Richthofen responded to Boelcke's Christlikeness. The Roman Catholic actor Bob Newheart and Jewish comedian Don Rickels were both men of faith, and they felt a special friendship based on their shared love and devotion to their family and to God. They would join each other in worshiping in both Church and Synagogue and recognizing both Christian and Jewish holidays. Herman's Hermit's lead singer Peter Noone had been a devote Catholic. He met a lady who was a devote Jew. They fell in love, and felt that a large part of their relationship was their shared love for God. They have had one of show business longest and happiest marriages. When they decided to marry, instead of just running off, Peter petitioned and received permission from the Church to marry her without her converting to Catholicism (One article I read said that he asked the Pope for permission, but I have not seen that since, only his getting permission from the church.) and they worship in both the Church and Synagogue, and they have a daughter they raised in both the church and synagogue.

There may not be a simple answer that applies to all congregations. The answer may lie in knowing the congregation. What are the individual needs of the people who attend? Congregations differ as people differ. Not all are the same. \

The number of military chaplains who have been killed in combat is probably little known by the American public. Arlington National Cemetery has a special section where such chaplains are buried. It currently lists 134 Protestant chaplains, 83 Catholic chaplains, 14 Jewish chaplains, and 23 chaplains who ae not listed as to religious background. This information was obtained from the following website: https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Monuments-and-Memorials/Chaplains-Hill NOTES: * Under the Geneva Convention military chaplains are not combatants and do not use weapons. * I am just one of several SDA chaplains who has served in combat. * There are some 81 Protestant and 3 Catholic chaplains who have been killed in combat but have not yet have their names entered in the memorial. * For more information see: https://www.votervoice.net/mobile/AmericanLegion/Campaigns/131063/Respond

On a regular basis, Adventist Today hosts a Zoom Conference of some religious issue. After the conference, they are posted on the Internet. Those postings can be accessed at: https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventistTodayMedia Scroll past other material to the following: ATSS Presents. NOTE: The conference on Reclaiming the Prophet is posted in a thread titled Ellen G. White and Adventism.

Hello friends, it's been a while since I've posted and a lot has happened but I want to share what's happened since I've last posted. In 2017, my wife, Denise read me a quote from a devotional called "The faith that I live by." I was searching for answers because I was tired of being a failing Christian. I had been studying the Bible and SOP for years and yet when I honestly looked at my life, there was no victory no satisfaction, just emptiness. I'm sure you all have felt that at some time or another. What I understood and experienced was righteousness by faith. I had studied and even preach on this subject in the past but I was simply passing on information without it making a change in my heart. This video is a testimony (sort of) and it captures what I was learning. It was recorded in 2023. The battery on my camera went dead so the entire sermon wasn't recorded but there's enough to understand what I was saying. it's about 29 minutes long. I do hope you are blessed and encouraged.

great points.

This false teaching is not only foreign to the Bible—it lacks logical consistency. https://adventistreview.org/theology/bible-study/eternal-submission-of-the-son/

I've learned to be very cautious when reading things from Adventist scholars but at 1st glance the premise of the article is something I agree with - I'm pleasantly surprised here phkrause! Aquinas and St. Augustine wrote about this.

I posted the above because I wanted to help clarify some aspects of the conversation. IOW, I felt that some comments were not fully understood. As I read and understand the above listing of Catholic teaching, I can agree with it. I do not fully agree with some other aspects of what Gustave has said, as I understand them. But, I think that my posting of Catholic teaching lays a good foundation for a common agreement.

The following article by Richard Coffen presents five passages in the Bible that have bee misunderstood. They are interesting. https://atoday.org/six-famous-bible-misinterpretations/

I have always questioned the millions and billions of years--I just dont know where those figures comes from. I found this-- 1. Biblical Arguments YEC reasoning starts with the belief that the Bible gives a reliable historical record from creation onward. Plain reading of Genesis Genesis 1 presents six literal 24-hour days (yom with “evening and morning” formula). Exodus 20:11 links the creation week to the Sabbath command, implying no symbolic “ages.” Chronological genealogy Genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11 give a relatively complete timeline from Adam to Abraham. Adding biblical dates from Abraham to Christ to modern times yields about 6,000 years. No death before the Fall YECs argue that “millions of years” puts death, disease, and predation before sin, conflicting with Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:21–22. 2. Theological Concerns Undermining the Gospel Foundation If death existed before sin, then Christ’s atonement would not be a direct reversal of the curse introduced in Genesis 3. Authority of Scripture YECs see acceptance of millions of years as reinterpreting Scripture to fit secular science, undermining biblical authority. 3. Scientific Objections to Millions of Years While YECs don’t deny scientific observations, they reject uniformitarian assumptions — the idea that present processes explain all past events at the same rate. Geology Catastrophism: The global Flood of Noah’s day could explain large-scale sedimentary layers, rapid fossilization, and continent-scale strata without millions of years. Polystrate fossils: Tree trunks found vertically through multiple rock layers suggest rapid deposition, not slow burial. Soft tissue in fossils: Findings of soft tissue and proteins in supposedly millions-of-years-old dinosaur bones challenge long-age assumptions. Radiometric Dating Assumption challenge: YECs argue dating methods rely on unprovable assumptions about initial conditions, constancy of decay rates, and closed systems. Discordant results: Different methods sometimes give vastly different ages for the same rock. Astronomy Light travel time: Alternative models (e.g., gravitational time dilation or God creating light in transit) are proposed to explain distant starlight without billions of years. Young phenomena: Observations like spiral galaxy “winding” or short-lived comets suggest a young age. 4. Common YEC Summary

For the story of a woman who saved the lives of some 2,000 - 2.500 children during WW II, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irena_Sendler and https://www.holocaustmatters.org/irena-sendler/ The Internet is full of stories about her.

Dr. Timothy Standish of the Geoscience Research Institute is reported to have made the following critical comment: “Those of you who are familiar with the way in which the church was restructured into its current form in the 1901 and 1903 General Conferences will recall that it was a response to the direct message from God that was given to us by sister Ellen G. White. There is a trend that has been apparent in changes over the years that have gone against that intent, which was to move power from the General Conference down to the local level. We are in rebellion against that message from God himself. This particular change reflects that rebellion. It moves the power from those on the ground who need funding for doing the mission. It moves it to the General Conference in another city, in another land, on a different continent. I stand I hope with all of you who respect the messenger of the Lord and the message that she gave all those years ago that applies to the General Conference today.” See: https://atoday.org/random-observations-from-way-way-upstairs-on-day-7/

This is such an enjoyable thread.