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In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

We are living in a time when it is important not to be misunderstood. The bottom line is that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a terrible crime. He was not a perfect person, but that does not negate the fact that it was a terrible crime. In an effort to prevent misunderstanding, I am asking that we refrain from commenting on any imperfections that we may think are related to him, regardless of whether they are true or not. Violations of my request will be considered for removal. NOTE: I have discussed this with Stan who is aware of my decision.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

I believe the earth is around 6000 years old. I believe the creation of this planet happened in 6 days. I believe God created man from the dust of the earth.

Why should I believe in the validity of the New Testament? Why should I believe that Christ rose from the dead? Powerful preachers exist in Adventism, whom I never mention in comments that I post in this forum. A new one has arisen on the Adventist scene who cannot be ignored and demands my recognition. That person is Shane Anderson, the senior pastor at Andrews University. The following is an exceptional series of sermons. # 1: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/03/07/part-1-sahara-surprise # 2: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/03/28/part-2-when-knowing-truth-not-enough # 3: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/04/04/part-3-tomb-raider

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? Hebrews 2 New International Version We are warned not to drift away. Over the years, I have seen many people drift away. Studying the word of God every day, keeps us from drifting away. I have never seen someone drift away who was studying the bible every day.

There are many in our church who believe that we have the truth, and that only people who fit a certain mold will be in heaven. Philippines is about 80% catholic. Probably more in my area. There are MANY devoted catholics here. I have had the opportunity to visit, get to know and observe. The faith and dedication to God that some of these people have is humbling. They don't have the truth we have, but they have the faith the bible talks about. Complete trust in God. Sometimes, we are not so smart as we think we are.

Arthur Weaver was 102 years old. He had cancer surgery about two years ago. He was ill with a cold, that later must have become worse. He founded a church with help of others in Plymouth Michigan. It is in a residential area. Very peaceful surroundings. There is one long winding driveway. On the way out is a small sign. I will paraphrase it from memory. You are now entering the most difficult mission field in the world.

Well here is a post I made on this issue... How Easter was used to replace the Sabbath We see how the name "Easter" never appears in the Greek New Testament. Easter is not a Christian name. It is Chaldean (Babylonian) in origin, a variation on the name Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven. It is to be noted that the apostolic church never gave attention to either the date of Christ's birth or the date of His resurrection, other than to note that the latter occurred on a Sunday. Neither of these days was observed by early Christians but as the pagan influence came into the church so did its festivals. In the third and fourth centuries a tremendous debate arose among Christian churches as to when Easter was to be observed. For the Roman Catholic branch it was largely settled at the Council of Nicaea (AD 325) with a formula still followed to this day, which cannot possibly be commemoration of the actual resurrection. In current practice Easter always falls on a Sunday and the Sunday chosen wanders over a period of four weeks ranging from March 22-April 25. Here is a good explanation.. “Easter occurs on different dates each year because, like the Jewish Passover, it is based upon the vernal equinox, that dramatic moment when the hours of the day-light and the hours of darkness at last draw parallel and then the light finally and triumphantly wins out. Thus Easter is always fixed as the first Sunday after the first full moon following the spring equinox. It's a cosmic, solar, and lunar event as deeply rooted in religious traditions originating from sun-god worship as one could conceivably imagine.” ~ Tom Harpur “The Pagan Christ”. The point is that the early Christians gave no attention to commemorating the resurrection day of Christ. If they had been serious they would be observing the 17th day of the Jewish month, Nisan, which begins with the first new moon following the spring solstice. Passover among the Jews begins with the 14th day of Nisan. It would not be possible to commemorate the actual day of the month and have it always on Sunday, so the choice was made to have it on Sunday, adjusting the day of the month for convenience. Given this information, although the resurrection of Jesus is a historical event of huge importance, we have no biblical precedent for making Easter a special day of celebration. Now the fact that Sabbath was supplanted by the church at Rome and even the anti-Judaism stirred up by Jewish revolts is well known and documented, and the claim that came out that it was from the 'resurrection', but scripture does not give any change nor was there any 'tradition' from the apostles. The truth is it was used to supplant the Sabbath, and the first day, Sunday has no basis for worship except for pagans as their festival day to the sun. Nothing of Easter was about Christ or His being risen, it was sun worship, 'the sunrise service tradition', is bowing and praying to the rising sun as you can see today. Here is even more on this: "The author of the "Epistle of Barnabas" adduces the occurrence of the Resurrection on the first day as the reason for the observance of this "true day" (xv.). In the meantime the attitude of the Roman authorities had become intermittently hostile to the Jews; and after the rebellion under Hadrian it became a matter of vital importance for such as were not Jews to avoid exposing themselves to suspicion (Huidekoper, "Judaism at Rome"). The observance of the Sabbath was one of the most noticeable indications of Judaism. Hence, while in the first Christian century more or less regard and tolerance for the Jewish day were shown in Rome, even by non-Jewish Christians, in the second century the contrary became the rule (Justin Martyr, "Dial. cum Tryph." ii., § 28). In the East, however, less opposition was shown to Jewish institutions. Saturday and Sunday both were celebrated by "abstaining from fasting and by standing while praying" (Rheinwald, "Archäologie," § 62), In the West, especially where Roman influence dominated, Saturday was turned into a fast-day (Huidekoper, ib. pp. 343-344). The name "Sunday" is used for the first time by Justin Martyr ("Apologies," i. 67) in accommodation to a Roman nomenclature, but with reference to the circumstances that the light was created on the first day (noticed also in the Midrash; Gen. R. iii.: "ten crowns adorned the first day") and that the "light of the world" rose from the night of the grave on the first day of the week. The Christians, accordingly, were obliged to defend themselves against the charge of worshiping the sun (Tertullian, "Apologeticus," xvi.). The celebration of two days (by the Judæo-Christians?) is attested by Eusebius ("Hist. Eccl." iii. 37) and by the "Apostolic Constitutions," which advise the keeping of Saturday as a memorial of the Creation, and of Sunday, the Lord's day, in memory of the Resurrection (ii. 59). Originally, then, Sunday and Sabbath were kept sharply distinct. But, like the Jewish Sabbath, Sunday was deemed not merely a holiday, but a holy day, and hence fasting thereon was interdicted (Tertullian, "De Corona Militis," § 3). Ease of mind (ευφροσύνη, which corresponds to "naḥat ruaḥ"; "Epistle of Barnabas," l.c.) was the proper condition for the day. One should not kneel at prayer (Irenæus, "Fragm. de Paschate"; "Apostolic Constitutions," l.c.); the standing posture, being at first a protest against mourning and ascetic rites (such as were forbidden on the Jewish Sabbath), came to be explained as suggestive of the Resurrection.".... SABBATH AND SUNDAY - JewishEncyclopedia.com Some try to say it was changed by the disciples or their actions or the resurrection, but Sunday has nothing even after the resurrection as the disciples continued with the Sabbath as it was before and Christ tells it it would continue so you have to really bend scripture to fit Sunday as the day of worship. It isnt there.......

Another man with whom he had issues was one who borrowed one of his books and did not return it. Elder Richards retrieved it from his widow. He told me a story about a historical figure who had secured a firearm, something new at the time. When the king paraded through his town, he took aim and fired from a rooftop, knocking the king off his horse. HMS thought that was quite amusing. Not sure why he told me that story. I enjoyed reading the VOP book[let] of the month. I retrieved a bag full of them from the VOP headquarters. One was called "The Occult Explosion." It had a purple and black cover with appropriate illustrations. We had some Hell's Angels in our town at that time. I offered the booklet to one of them. He not only accepted it but thanked me for giving it to him.

The Apocrypha is little known among SDA members. I am working on an in-depth article in which I will introduce us to the individual writings. I have decided to post my article in parts, as I finish it. I will open this thread for comment when I have finished. The Apocrypha The Bible that Christians use today consists of a selection of writings that were commonly used in the congregations as Christianity spread in the years after the accession of Christ back to heaven. The Old Testament consists Jewish writings thought to be necessary for the Christian faith. The New Testament consists of Christian writings that were produced as Christianity developed in the early years. The Apocrypha is is a group of writings that were produced during the Intertestamental period between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Those writings have been accepted as having value by some Christian groups and therefore included in the Bibles that they use. Some of these are additions to standard Old Testament books. Other parts are complete books that are added to the Old Testament. Many Protestants, to include Seventh-day Adventists do not include them in their Bibles. In this document I will inform you as to the various material included in the Apocrypha. NOTE, Current SDA scholars are giving study to the comments that Ellen White make that are related to this issue. She was favorable. The Pseudepigrapha consists of similar writings that developed in the early years of Christianity. This is a very large collection of material, I will not further comment on those writings. How ever, it is interesting to note that the New Testament book of Jude, the 14tn verse clearly quotes from the Pseudepigraphal book of Enoch.

It was interesting hearing the former president’s speak at the funeral.

Revelation 14:12 tells us: "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

Extremely well said! I'm going to incorporate this into my knowledge base! Humbling!

When Jesus healed the man/2men, when the pigs ran into the sea; they were pagans. They lived in a city where they were to show others how wonderful Greek life is. This was one of 10 Greek cities on the east side of the sea of Galilee and Jordan river, and the entire area was pagan. This was the "far country" that the prodigal son went to. These men would have been pagan. They would have known little to nothing of the people with a strange religion down south in Judah and pockets here and there in the north, but all across the lake. They knew very little. They would not have known the Bible. Yet, Jesus sent them to be his first missionaries to the gentiles. I wonder how comfortable we would feel if we could go back in time and attend their meetings?

Reading Ellen white: How to understand and apply her writings, written by George Knight, is probably the best book that has been published on this subject. It can be purchased form Amazon.

The following lengthy article describes the years of Ted Wilson's reign and suggests how Kohler's time in office may differ from Wilson's. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/analysis/is-the-wilson-era-over/

But two years later, on July 4, at the 2025 GC Session in St. Louis, Missouri, out of the almost 2,000 session delegates who had just heard Wilson’s official “President’s Report”—a telling of everything the church accomplished under his 15-year-long leadership—only 188 of the floor delegates voted for him. The vast majority clearly decided that the church can, in fact, survive without him. Wilson was not reelected president, and Erton Köhler succeeded him with over 90 percent approval. In the first 6 months, it appears he is doing what he said he would. More focus on humanitarian efforts and programs. He appears to be reduced intensity. So far he is doing a great job.

I saw a YT short of a woman saying "I am glad Charlie Kirk is dead. He got what he deserved". A comment was that some people are evil now. It is evil to wish people dead. Is there a growing spirit of evil in America? We always talk about a shaking time in the church, but could there be a shaking time in the general population?

I start out with the idea that "Hell Fire" is God present in person in all God's love, beauty and glory that purifies and calls out the best in everyone. Some people will find this heaven, but others who have not wanted the best in them to be in control will find it very, very uncomfortable to be with him. Jesus is their deepest desire, they long to run into his loving arms; but they don't know him. They are unforgiving people and thus cannot comprehend forgiveness. They picture what they would do to someone like themselves if they were God. They want to run to him but refuse to yield to this deepest desire. They want to but won't. In the end God treats everyone the same, but our choices depend on how we respond. While this comes from Ellen White, I believe that it's Biblical. She pictures us seeing Jesus coming in the clouds and we are overwhelmed and ask "Who shall be able to stand?" There is a moment of horrible silence, then Jesus says [sings?] "My grace is sufficient for you!" To these words we find two responses. Some realize "Yes, this is my friend Jesus and his grace is sufficient for me! This is my God and He will save me!" Jesus does not say "My grace is sufficient for you Stan and for you Matthew, but sorry Kevin, it's not sufficient for you." Jesus says to each and every one of us "My grace is sufficient for you." Some believe him, others have just had their ear drums vibrate to the sweetest sound it ever heard telling them that his grace is sufficient for them, but they do not believe him. They think he is lying and they run to the rocks... Heaven is total reality. In a lot of ways hell is the rejection of reality as they become slaves to the figment of their imagination. Building on this are the three aspects of the trinity, the issues of the great controversy which creatures need to ask if God is who God claims to be or not, and the mystery of how Lucifer instead of looking for the answers to this question, turned the question into three deceptions one against each member of the trinity. The Holy Spirit works with every heart. Every group/religion has a mixture of truth, error, misunderstandings and superstitions. The monotheistic religions have more truth available to them, especially as they accept the Bible and aspects of the Bible, but many with much truth available don't take advantage of this gift, while many with less available treasure what they have. The Holy Spirit has, and we should have "Listening Love" where we want to understand the other person, encourage them in the truth that they have and encourage them to grow. Being saved "in the name of Jesus" is not righteousness by vocabulary, but the character of Jesus, even if they are in religions that don't understand the word "J-E-S-U-S". or where he has been misrepresented over the centuries where the word becomes a sore spot and we expect them to just give up centuries of pain and that they are lost because they are uncomfortable saying that word. But they may know HIM, Who he is. Praying in Jesus name means to pray for the same types of things Jesus would pray for. Our Jewish and Muslim friends have an amazing amount of truth, but may not see it, and instead of helping them to see what they already have, we want them to give the correct vocabulary. Jesus cries at this. Historians said that it is not clear how pious Manfred von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was, but his hero was Oswald Boelcke who was very pious and a devote follower of the Lord. Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Von Richthofen tried to imitate Boelcke's Christlikeness. Very different from others who admired Boelcke's prowess in shooting down enemy planes but not his character. Von Richthofen was more impressed by Boelcke's character than he was by Boelcke's ability to shoot down enemy planes. Von Richthofen was impressed by the way the character of Jesus was reflected in Boelcke. Is this not accepting Jesus? When I was at Andrews, going through the White Estate vault, I came across a document that I believe that Mrs. White wrote. Since I cannot go back and confirm this I will not say "Mrs. White said..." but I was going through her writings and as far as I know she said this. The document talked about "atheists" and the writer but them into two groups. The one group were "infidels" who were in rebellion against God. The second group was called "Honest doubters" who questioned how God can exist with different issues we face in the world, but they develop caring, kind characters. This writer saw heaven as having room for these "honest doubters." It's late, so this is a place to start.

I have in person and online, we had some here,

My understanding of the SAbbath, is focused on what God established at creation and not what the Jews practiced. That Sabbath did not begin with the Jews. It did not end with the coming of Christ's birth over 2,000 years ago.

We see what Jesus predicted would come between nations and would increase prior to the Second Coming. Matthew 24:7 King James Version (KJV) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. We don't have to look far today at the nations of the world or the events that are on the news. You may see leaders who say they are ending the conflicts and talk of peace and curtailing of war, but it just keeps going along with ethnic violence, ethnic cleansing, and worse as race conflict seems on everyone's lips. On the economic side, we see the instability of world markets and the value of commodities and goods evaporating, and distinctions between rich and poor is becoming horrendous, with billionaires pushing their agendas, and the monies being taken by their friends and allies. Economic woes and labour unrest are foretold for the last days, and we are seeing it with Unions having nurses and doctors go on strike, along with pilots and many others making unbelievable wages, while the poor can't find a job for minimum ones. We see the treasures being heaped high and the prophecies being fulfilled... James 5:3-4 King James Version (KJV) 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their poison will be a witness against you, and will eat your flesh as fire. You heaped treasure in the last days. 4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. The Seven Last Plagues are sent by God from heaven, angels pour out vials of His wraith upon the face of the earth, and they are laid out.. Grievous sores Fresh water sources become like blood Oceans also become like blood The sun scorching men with great heat A great darkness The Euphrates River drying up and unclean spirits And a destructive earthquake and hail. The Bible doesn’t give us a specific date for these plagues, but it does say that just before the second coming of Jesus, they will befall on the earth. They are similar to the plagues that fell on Egypt and will happen in the last days. They came just before the Jews were freed from slavery much like the saints are going to be freed from the bondage of sin at the second coming. So lets look at the Seven Last Plagues... Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. The plagues appear to fall after the close of probation as the saints are sealed during this time such as never was. Revelation 16:1-15 King James Version (KJV) 1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. 8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty We see where SOP also says the Great Time of Trouble begins after the close of probation, "When Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man's behalf, then this time of trouble will begin. Then the case of every soul will have been decided, and there will be no atoning blood to cleanse from sin. When Jesus leaves His position as man's intercessor before God the solemn announcement is made, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still" (Rev. 22:11). Then the restraining Spirit of God is withdrawn from the earth."--PP 201 (1890) Then we see the last climatic event which will be heard as well as felt across the nations and peoples... Revelation 16:15-21 King James Version (KJV) 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Ellen White's writings give that the plagues will fall like the ones in Egypt, one right after the other, and then a final cataclysmic event as the saints look for deliverance.. Satan's host and wicked men will surround them and exult over them because there will seem to be no way of escape for them. But in the midst of their revelry and triumph there is heard peal upon peal of the loudest thunder. The heavens have gathered blackness, and are only illuminated by the blazing light and terrible glory from heaven, as God utters His voice from His holy habitation. The foundations of the earth shake, buildings totter and fall with a terrible crash. The sea boils like a pot and the whole earth is in terrible commotion. The captivity of the righteous is turned, and with sweet and solemn whisperings they say to one another: "We are delivered. It is the voice of God."--1T 353, 354 (1862). It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. . . . In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying, "It is done" (Rev. 16:17). That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. . . . The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free.--GC 635-637 (1911).

Here is Kirk Cameron who has publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it, calling such a fate 'cruel and unusual punishment.' Cameron says that the Bible, especially in its Old Testament writing, does not depict the souls of the wicked as immortal. Instead, the only souls promised eternal life ' immortality' are those granted to believers. https://endtimeheadlines.org/2025/12/kirk-cameron-no-longer-believes-in-eternal-punishment/ ...Kirk Cameron no longer believes in eternal punishment (OPINION) In a recent episode of his show, Kirk Cameron publicly announced a change in his long-held views on Hell. Previously accepting the view of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, he now rejects it

Absolutely a true hero!

All salvation comes from God's gracious attitude towards us through what Jesus did for us. At the end of time God will treat everyone the same. God will show up in all his beauty, love, glory, and overwhelming event. Some will find this event to be heaven, others will find this event to be hell. Like when the divinity flashed through Jesus when cleaning the temple (at least at the second cleaning.) People ran in two directions. The money changers were running away, while the children, poor and lame were running to him (and remember Jesus had a whip. How often do you find children running with joy to someone holding a whip? Yet, this is what happened when Jesus showed his "wrath".) Only this time there is no place to flee as God's glory fills the whole world. Everyone is born with a few things: Different levels of intelligence, cultures, environments, points in history. We all have in us two attitudes fighting. One is our deepest desire, to want to love the world on an honest basic, to be fair, to love the world as Jesus has loved it. Fighting this is a weaker, but often placed in power in our lives, a disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. A disposition to esteem ourselves more highly than others, to serve self, to seek the highest place, to manipulate or try to manipulate others especially through things such as criticizing, complaining, blaming, nagging, threatening, punishing, rewarding to control. We also seem to have been born with our temperaments, two out of five possible love languages, two out of five possible apology languages, and our attachment styles. The Holy Spirit works with every person, pointing them to the character ("name") of God as our personal friend (God the Son). All religions have varying amounts of truth and superstitions. People make choices of reaching out to or rejecting the character of God as our personal friend, through the two principles of somehow reaching out to what or whoever may be out there and from this to love their neighbors as themselves. The three monotheistic religions have available WITHIN their framework a looking beyond the forces of nature to the creator. The two based on the Bible have even more truth available to them, with of course the Christians open to study the Bible with the insight that God the Son came and lived among us, and additional insights from records of his life and insights from those who directly witnessed seeing him, including seeing him after the resurrection, or records of people who had direct connection to these witnesses. Protestantism has a mindset of reading the Bible and making the Bible the final authority. And Seventh-day Adventists have the great controversy philosophy (which archaeology has pointed out was a big issue for the ancient world where the Bible was written, but which we have lost sight of in culture.) Now, just because we have more information available to us does not mean that we are allowing them to affect our lives and thinking. People with less information may cherish what they understand while people with more information may ignore it. All may be drawn away by traditions and superstitions. From this I cannot say that all religions lead to God; but God and Satan both have people in all religions. The big issue is HIS CHARACTER, Who HE is, What he did for us. The Holy Spirit working on our hearts to point us in the direction of the character of God as personal friend, and from this to God being the great power and ultimate authority. Sadly, too many Christians turn the salvation through God's gracious character and who HE is, to salvation through being a Christian, salvation through the religion. The false thinking that a Jew, Muslim or other cannot be saved because they are not "Christians" That they have not said the right things about Jesus and give the history lesson about what Jesus did for us. Anwar Sadat was raised by his mother and grandmother with a simple faith of trusting in Allah. In college he got into a more complex nationalistic political form of Islam. Yet, he still had a love for God. He spent so many hours in prayer that a callus formed on his forehead. When he lost the 1973 war, he felt responsible for all the deaths. He turned his back on the more complicated political version of Islam and turned to the simple faith of his mother and grandmother. He realized that he needed to forge a peace with Israel. At Camp David, there were three men of faith and prayer, a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian. They stopped their work at prayer times and were able to work out a solution. In Psalm 23:5 it says that the Lord prepares a table in the presence of enemies. To the ancient world this means forgiveness and reconciliation. After Camp David was arranged, a table for the enemies of Egypt and Israel meet for the reconciliation meal. Now, people wondered about a personal event in this feast. Sadat and Golda Mier had totally hated each other on a personal level. They had never mentioned the other by name. Sadat would only call her "That Old Lady" and she would only call him "That Egyptian." Yes, there was the table of forgiveness for the politics of the two governments, but what about these two individuals? In the receiving line, as these two bitter enemies came face to face, Mier said "Mr. President, what took you so long? At these words Sadat just started laughing, and Mier just started laughing. The hatred they had for each other melted. (I don't remember for sure but I believe that I read/heard that they made a joke about the names they gave each other.) The table of forgiveness became not only political between states, but was also personal between these two individuals who remained friends for the rest of their lives. These actions were accepting and reflecting the character of God the Son, and coming to the power of God the Father through God as personal friend. They are saved through how they accepted the character of God the Son. (and as you look at Sadat, the impact of God upon his life, and how he decided to stand for the right even though it lead to his martyrdom, indicates that he could have well have reached what Ellen White describes as last generation perfection.) Dr. Chan was a Buddhist dentist living in Cambodia. When he heard that the Khmer Rouge came to power, he threw his glasses off his face and stomped on them on the floor, ran home got his family and moved to a part of Cambodia where no one knew who they were and they pretended to be ignorant illiterates. Eventually they were able to go to a refugee camp in Thailand. There were Baptists working in the camps to help the refugees and shared the story about Jesus. The Chan family converted from Buddhism to Christianity. Later they came to southern California where there were Seventh-day Adventists helping the refugees, and they decided to learn more about Seventh-day Adventism and decided to become Seventh-day Adventists. One Sabbath at church, one of the women who were helping the refugees noticed that Dr. Chan's body tightened and went pale. He started shaking and ran out of the church. She went after him to find out what was wrong. She found him on the lawn of the church just shaking and repeating the words "It's him! It's him..." As he was asked what was wrong, Dr. Chan replied "You may find this crazy, but as a child I knew that I had a special friend. Now, I could not see him nor hear him, yet he has always been just as real to me at my friends who I could see and hear. I believe that he helped me to remove and trample on my glasses. I believe that he lead me and my family as we looked for someplace we were unknown, and that he lead to Thailand and finally to the United States. Even though I became a Christian in Thailand, today, for the first time in my life I realize that this special, life long friend of mine is Jesus!" Religions can be a help or a hindrance, but from all religious beliefs (even secularism and so called atheism -- I have not come over this document's words anyplace else for me to absolutely say that it was by Ellen White, but I came across it in the EGW vault at Andrews, and I believe that it was written by Sister White, but this document placed "atheists" into two different groups. One was labeled, infidels. But the author also gave a second group of atheists labeled "Honest Doubters" and that heaven has room for the "Honest Doubters." Whether the writer was Mrs. White or not, I agree with that document. There is the issue of faith that transcends religions. When you read about the Norwegian revivalist Hans Nielsen Hague, or the character of World War I German ace Oswald Boelcke, and how World War I ace Manfred von Richthofen responded to Boelcke's Christlikeness. The Roman Catholic actor Bob Newheart and Jewish comedian Don Rickels were both men of faith, and they felt a special friendship based on their shared love and devotion to their family and to God. They would join each other in worshiping in both Church and Synagogue and recognizing both Christian and Jewish holidays. Herman's Hermit's lead singer Peter Noone had been a devote Catholic. He met a lady who was a devote Jew. They fell in love, and felt that a large part of their relationship was their shared love for God. They have had one of show business longest and happiest marriages. When they decided to marry, instead of just running off, Peter petitioned and received permission from the Church to marry her without her converting to Catholicism (One article I read said that he asked the Pope for permission, but I have not seen that since, only his getting permission from the church.) and they worship in both the Church and Synagogue, and they have a daughter they raised in both the church and synagogue.

That and the cellphones, the young people rarely pull their gaze away to even think on doing good for others, as they check to see what the 'latest' is in fashion, fads, or face creams to say the least, or ways to get more worldly possessions for themselves...

Do they not see that they are aligned with Apostate Protestants who are rapidly constructing an image to the Beast?

I served as an Army Chaplain during the time when women first began to enter the military. In many ways, I think that the foundational issues that were faced by the military are also the ones faced by us in the SDA Church. While that may not become clear in what I post here, on this Veteran's Day I thought that I might post some of my thinking on this subject from both the military and SDA aspect. * I became an Active-Duty Army Chaplain at the same time as the second female Army chaplain. To this day, I am angry at how the Army as an institution, allowed her to be treated. The following link takes you to my somewhat angry comment published at the time of her death. https://www.mykeeper.com/ChaplainMajorRetBettyWPace * I served a 3-year tour on the teaching faculty of the Army Chaplain School. Generally, the students were qualified to serve as Chaplains. A Few were not. During my time there, a SDA student left the Army as it became apparent that such was not for him. We should expect the same for our females and not attribute the lack of success of one to the gender/denomination as a whole. * I was the first Army Chaplain to serve in combat in a COED unit. [NOTE: This is not the place to get into a discussion as to what you may think you have heard about World War II, and what you may think to be exceptions.] In general, the females worked harder to perform because they knew that they had more that they had to prove, than did the males. * As a result of my combat experience and my position on the Chaplain school faculty I became involved in other experiences intend to educate people as to female military members. * At an earlier time in Adventist history, I was involved in helping women who alleged to have been abused by SDA clergy to have their allegations properly heard by competent authority. * I have provided pastoral care to such women. As a result of the above, I will be the first to say that women in Adventism today have achieved a measure of success. But an engrained bias against them still exists. This is true even in the Conferences that employ female clergy. In one aspect of this problem, I see Adventist women as seemingly accepting it. I do not see it changing until some woman finds herself in a position to do something about it.

The above video lasts for close to 2 hours. I am about 90 minutes into watching it. I will finish later. One point; It suggests that the White Estate was not the major player in banning the book, rather it was Pacific Press. The book and discussion clearly informed that the messages of Ellen White came from multiple sources, some of which were clearly human. I found it very helpful to understand that from this perspective that her use of the phrase "I was shown." should not be limited to divine sources but clearly include her human sources.

Something very similar happens in different species of animals.. You may think that is a joke but the joke might be on you. They cannot reproduce ,behavior in a herd setting the behavior can be disruptive and is counterproductive to keep alive. In animals there isn't any reason to try to determine if there is a dominant gender. They literally can behave as male one day and female the next I don't know about all species but sheep, goats ,angora goats can produce unisex ofspring. There are characteristics you need to be aware of in a breeding program. Polled to polled will result in a unisex ofspring. Not always, and many are willing to take the chance to eliminate a horned animal. We had in happen twice with livestock. Unisex ofspring ,neither one or the other. Once with our registered blue merle collie something with the coloring could produce deaf offspring among other deficits. Blue merle collies mated can produce a beautiful white collie that is deaf. I believe there are other deficits but at the moment cannot remember them. It was interesting in that the "unisex" offspring were absolutely beautiful. If something can go so haywire in the animal kingdom how are you so sure something cant in humans? However I think it is rarity I listened to a discussion between Charlie Kirk and a woman in the audience. She could not define what a woman was. She claimed it was whatever you wanted the definition to be and that male/female was a society construct. I don't believe it is a epidemic as people make out. When people cannot define what a woman is and they answer "depends" when asked, I personally think there is a screw loose.

When I began this task, I expected to quickly finish it. I really did not understand the amount of material available on Adventism, that was of good quality. I soon came to realize that I could not list it all. So, the above is simply a summary. Enjoy. May it be a blessing to you. I will now unlock this thread. Gregory Matthews

Female SDA Pastors: The following article provides detailed and specific information related to female SDA pastors on a global basis. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/from-australia-to-zimbabwe-the-number-of-women-pastors-rises/ * Did you know that In China, more than 3,000 SDA women are serving as SDA pastors?

Thank you for the time and effort that you put into writing the above.

This is such an enjoyable thread.

The agenda for the upcoming GC Session runs for some 94 pages. The link below takes you to an artice on the agenda and also includes a link to the actual agenda. https://atoday.org/exploring-the-2025-general-conference-session-agenda/

Today, May 26, 2025, is Memorial Day that reminds us of those who have fought in war. The following book informs on a number of people who served in battle as Conscientious Objectors. Several of the mentioned people were Seventh-day Adventist. https://www.amazon.com/Conscientious-Objectors-War-Vietnam-Forgotten/dp/1682832600

Those who wish to purchase this from Amazon may do so at; https://www.amazon.com/Glory-Exploring-Ellen-Whites-Visions/dp/1479618152/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1V11FAF5MO95&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.U3EgVpa8-lQVmO0kXzIhiw-5dLkh2vhoRNWKyKkX2XKhN3oBtqoJZ2tVHV5mN3j0V-8syCZ9Qs8Vbd2XdmJ0XMAqY-RGPC7U1ydh1b57ZigOmT3Ys-9r1xnn_DkV3pgxWa02Obc1MJSvCDhs-byEoZgpU7kWLjXfnEq0vy6JqAIxPMe3tz2VPhG_cH4WMpCTBoPDa1dOGOfiuAu1DjHxNjKKYzwRvIfRnaQR-WLk6Io.6ZXOKMY4PJcnYpta0w7dhE-o4HMViTRWi-dIFBwhGuc&dib_tag=se&keywords=Glory+Glory+Glory+Ellen+White+book&qid=1748262780&sprefix=glory+glory+glory+ellen+white+book%2Caps%2C218&sr=8-1 Amazon sells it for $34. I am unable to find our much about it. However, it does seem to have some academic credentials.

Bob, how about an update?

A fundamental error that many Christians engage in, including SDAs, is to consider the main focus of the Sabbath to be that of worship. The purpose of the Sabbath, as it began in Eden, was to spend a day with God and to grow spiritually. It was a day separate from the routine duties that Adam and Eve had in Eden. Rather the focus was on God and getting to know God better in a close association with God. Worship is a small part of that, even if important. Worship can be on multiple days of the week. I have probably conducted more worship services on Sundays, than I have on Saturdays. Adventists often have worship services in a series of meetings that are held on multiple days of the week. There is nothing wrong with either my holding worship services on Sunday mornings, or with SDA clergy holding revival meetings on days other than the Sabbath. The spiritual error occurs with Christians, whether Adventist or otherwise, fail to understand the spiritual blessing that we experience in spending the day with God, on the Sabbath that God has established as a special day to commune with us.

The best way to deal with homosexual friends and family is to treat them with respect, dignity, friendship - which includes minding your own business. One of the greatest evils of Christianity is its tendency to attract to its ranks busybodies who are obsessed with what other people do in private with their genitals.