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Hobie, I understand EGW in light of what the Bible plainly says. I don't try to interpret Scripture in light of what EGW says. It is not unusual for people to do that, hence the confusion over issues such as this. If you read and thought about the Biblical evidence I presented in the above post and still prefer what you think Sr. White said, I'm sorry for that. The Bible is much easier to understand than what she said on this topic. I wish you well in your journey.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

That's the way it works in my Church as well.

The varioius levels of the SDAChruch operte under a Constitution whilch also has w set of Bylaws. The Consstsilltion is seldom changed, bult may be changed. The Bylaws are often changed. In the Unilted States, the SDA Church has registered wlith the governlment, in order tko be covered by the protections of law that apply to religious organilzations. That process has included the ConstilltulIn the United kStates, In the Unlited States, t he authority to authorize the ordination of SDA clegy has generally lbeen given to the Union Conferences by their Constiltution. In short, the Local Conference recommends ordination and the Union Conference aplproves. As an example, my credentials cOme frkom teh Pacific Union kl coknference aftere the Northern kCalifornia conference recommended such. Under the procedure listed above, the General Conference is considered by many, including me, to not have the authority to tell the Union Ckonferences whom they can ordain.

The New Testament has one God who's name is: Father, Son and Holy Sprit. The Old Testament has one God in three pictures: El or God as the great unapproachable power ruling the entire universe. YHWH, The Angel of the Lord who turns out to be the Lord, Michael the Prince, Messiah the Prince, the Fire that burned but did not consume the bush, The Captain of the Lord's Host, etc. which is God as personal and approachable. Then there is the Spirit of the Lord where we do not see an objective revelation as we do in the first two, but God working on the heart and leading the life through the subjective, existential situations. We have all of these as one God, and united in the term "Elohim" the singular plural. Yes, The God of the Old Testament who's name is El, YHWH, The Spirit of God; and the one God of the New Testament who's name is God the Father, God The Son, and God the Holy Spirit is the creator of the entire universe.

Forgiveness does not require that one escape the penally of their actions. But, sometimes it may require such. I will tell you such a true story in which I was involved. There will be parts of it that you do not understand and I am protecting the privacy of the involved people. But, the story remains true regardless of such. A young, single woman, in the process of committing a crime became pregnant;. No, was was not a prostitute. If she had had an abortion, she likely would not have suffered any consequences. However, she gave birth to the child. The result caused her to be charged with the consequent penalty of being fired from her position. Her Supervisor was a devout Christian. She informed management that she would refuse to testify, and without her testimony the woman could not be convicted.. She simply said that she was willing to be fired herself. She did not believe in abortion and she was wiling to place her job on the line in order to protect a woman who had nor taken the easy way out which was an abortion. A Federal hearing was held before r a Federal Attorney acting as a Judge and with a A Prosecutor. I defended the woman who had been charged. I argued that there was a total lack of evidence of the charged crime, and she cold not be convicted. The Judge agreed and ruled her Not Guilty. Folioing that ruling I had a very specific talk with my client and her Supervisor in which I informed my client of t he debt she owed the woman who had placed her job on the line in standing up for my client. I believe that the result of the trial was what God wanted.

There is no "slipping away" from stealing, which is what you described. Forgiving them is a totally separate issue from their paying back what they took. You have a responsibility to protect other people from thieves, people that you don't even know.

In my personal opinion, i believe that one goal of Kinship was to provide spiritual care to a group of people who were not thought to be getting it in Adventism, without asking them to change their sexuality.

Christ had to do as we must do or there was no point in His coming. Here is more on this .. Christ's perfect humanity is the same that man may have through connection with Christ. As God, Christ could not be tempted any more than He was not tempted from His allegiance in heaven. But as Christ humbled Himself to the nature of man, He could be tempted. He had not taken on Him even the nature of the angels, but humanity, perfectly identical with our own nature, except without the taint of sin. A human body, a human mind, with all the peculiar properties, He was bone, brain, and muscle. A man of our flesh, He was compassed with the weakness of humanity. The circumstances of His life were of that character that He was exposed to all the inconveniences that belong to men, not in wealth, not in ease, but in poverty and want and humiliation. He breathed the very air man must breathe. He trod our earth as man. He had reason, conscience, memory, will, and affections of the human soul which was united with His divine nature. Our Lord was tempted as man is tempted. He was capable of yielding to temptations, as are human beings. His finite nature was pure and spotless, but the divine nature that led Him to say to Philip, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father" also, was not humanized; neither was humanity deified by the blending or union of the two natures; each retained its essential character and properties. But here we must not become in our ideas common and earthly, and in our perverted ideas we must not think that the liability of Christ to yield to Satan's temptations degraded His humanity and He possessed the same sinful, corrupt propensities as man. The divine nature, combined with the human, made Him capable of yielding to Satan's temptations. Here the test to Christ was far greater than that of Adam and Eve, for Christ took our nature, fallen but not corrupted, and would not be corrupted unless He received the words of Satan in the place of the words of God. To suppose He was not capable of yielding to temptation places Him where He cannot be a perfect example for man, and the force and the power of this part of Christ's humiliation, which is the most eventful, is no instruction or help to human beings. But the facts of this history are not fable, but a living, acting, experience. [To deny this] would rob Jesus of His greatest glory--allegiance to God--which enshrouded Him as a garment in this world on the field of battle with the relentless foe, and He is not reckoned with the transgressor. He descended in His humiliation to be tempted as man would be tempted, and His nature was that of man, capable of yielding to temptation. His very purity and holiness were assailed by a fallen foe, the very one that became corrupted and then was ejected from heaven. How deeply and keenly must Christ have felt this humiliation."

Need to see what it teaches and the real issue here. Here is a good summary..: Here’s the conundrum: to suggest Jesus, as the God-Man, is unable to sin seems to denigrate His true humanity. This position seems to make the incarnation a farce – a foregone conclusion. It implies Jesus never felt the true force of the temptations. This position is known as impeccability. but, to suggest Jesus could sin seems to denigrate His deity. This position is known as peccability. So, what to do? The solution seems to be a qualified form of peccability, as follows:12 Jesus was genuinely tempted to sin, not like us, but like the original Adam and Eve (morally neutral), so, it was theoretically possible for Him to sin, but He chose not to sin

Sorry, that link is blocked. Anyway, if the "issue" has to do with the NIV being a bad version, I'll keep that in mind. My wife and I read it together [gospel of John] most nights. We have both been blessed by the reading. For study purposes, I use the KJV,ESV, NRSV, NASB, and YLT, consult the OL for word meanings and word range. The Online Bible has proved to be a real blessing for study, providing all of the above plus many more with just the click of a mouse.

This seems to be the best way.

There are 7 days in a week. God may be worshiped on any/all of those 7 days. * SDA pastors hold worship services on Saturday and Sunday evenings. Take your pick. One of those is the Biblical first day of the week. * SDA pastors serving in chaplaincy positions hold worship services on Sunday mornings. In my service as a Federal chaplain, I have held more worship services on Sunday morning than I have held on Saturday as a a pastor of a SDA Chruch. * My service as a Fderal Chaplalin was endorsed by the General Conference who was fully awaare that I held Sunday w orship services. NOTE, IF the General Conference had not approved of wah tI did, they could have removed me from my federal position. Federal Chqaplains only serve with the permission of tlheir denominaiton. * The Sabbath is much more than a worswhip service, It is a 24 hour day devoted to God. In all of my life I have kept Saturday, the 7th day, as a Sabbth. I have never kept Sunday as a Sabbath. * If you think that mere worship on a day makes it a Sabbath, you lneed to review the Biblical and SDA teaching, as youy clearly donot understand them.

Have you ever thought what your life would be like if you could no longer drive an automobile? For the past 6-months, I have been involved in an extensive conversation with the State of California, as to whether or not I would be allowed to drive an automobile. * This has involved examinations and reports from two eye doctors. * it has involved multiple trips to a local DMV office to resolve/respond to issues. * Yesterday it came to an end with a 30-minute driving test, on the highway, and in local residential areas, under close supervision. * Any failure on a list of critical issues would immediately result in a total failure to pass the examination. * I would be tested multiple times on minor issues, regardless of whether or not I failed on any of them. * A passing score of no more than 20 minor failures was required. * In addition, I was questioned on my knowledge of how to operate the vehicle that I was driving. Note: The DMV person knew more about how my vehicle operated than I did. * My physicians had recommended that i be restricted to only driving during daylight hours and to only a 2-year extension of my license. NOTE: It could be more restrictive. I PASSED WITH ONLY 10 MINOR FAILURES! THE RECOMMENDED RESTRICTIONS WERE ACCEPTED. I AM SO THNKFULE. I do not know how I would have survived with a total loss. Although, in most months I do not drive more than 10 miles. My wife is more restrictive.

I would have to lean towards that, and going about and am telling everyone we are near...

Many years ago, I reported to the police an old acquaintance who was involved in the heroin trade. I felt a bit guilty for betraying him, so I told him what I had done. One evening, I was walking along a dark street and a carload of guys. with him in the car, drove by real slow, taking a look at me. I reached into the pocket of the oversize coat I was wearing; they drove away. Bluffing might be option when dealing with potential or actual drive by shooters. I was lucky that night.

My father was a Adventist minister, so I grew up listening to innumerable sermons and Daniel and Revelation prophecy series, and my mother did the various church and health messages, think '5 day plan to stop smoking', and I knew what was coming for each night. But, come to the present as we are getting to the final days, and I sometimes seem to struggle in what sermon to bring before the brethren, as I volunteer for the sermon as a elder. I thought I was the only one, that some weeks I had no idea what sermon for this time to preach about, till almost the day of the sermon. But I have become aware that others also struggle to find what they should preach especially after hitting all the major points and beliefs, especially for the last days and prophecy. It might be that some are between ideas for what the brethren need or just struggling for ideas. If we who preach as lay preachers were all honest, we’ve come across this, or come to the point of asking, ”What do the people need?” So how do you find a message, especially for these last days, from God’s Word that your church needs and you are excited about?

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? Hebrews 2 New International Version We are warned not to drift away. Over the years, I have seen many people drift away. Studying the word of God every day, keeps us from drifting away. I have never seen someone drift away who was studying the bible every day.

Arthur Weaver was 102 years old. He had cancer surgery about two years ago. He was ill with a cold, that later must have become worse. He founded a church with help of others in Plymouth Michigan. It is in a residential area. Very peaceful surroundings. There is one long winding driveway. On the way out is a small sign. I will paraphrase it from memory. You are now entering the most difficult mission field in the world.

Seventh-day Adventists worship on a day dedicated to a pagan god. But, our worship is not dedicated to that pagan god. By the way, it is not a sin to worship on Sunday. It is not a sin to worship with other Christians on Sonday. The Biblical Sabbath, is much more than a day of worship. The Bible, as I understand it, established a Sabbath on the 7th day of the week. It does not forbid worship on any day of the week. I have worshiped with fellow Christians on Sunday many times. Sometimes I have even preached to congregations of other denominations on Sunday.

Recently the Federal Centers for Disease Control published an 8-page report on the dangers of the natural herb Kratom. It is widely used, and freely sold in most of the united States by people who consider it to be a healthful way to address some of the common concerns of daily life. What is often not understood is how addictive and dangerous it can be, especially in some of the forms in which it is sold. Withdrawal will often require medical supervision. The following article will explain this in more detail. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/75/wr/mm7511a1.htm?s_cid=OS_mm7511a1_w My assumption is that as it is becoming popular in our society in the U.S, it is also being used by Adventists who see it as a safe natural product,and have no understanding as to how lethal it can be. If we as a Church decry the use of tobacco and alcoholic drinks, I suggest we need to warn our members as to the dangers of Kratom. The above CDC publication provides enough information for several articles for authors to use. On a personal basis, my second son ended his life in 2024 while attempting to withdraw from Kratom usage that was not medically supervised. His story is told in the following article which will inform to a greater degree. https://atoday.org/the-day-my-son-took-his-own-life/ NOTE: I have an agreement with the above publisher that permission will be granted free of charge for the article to be republished. Gregory Matthews

The Apocrypha is little known among SDA members. I am working on an in-depth article in which I will introduce us to the individual writings. I have decided to post my article in parts, as I finish it. I will open this thread for comment when I have finished. The Apocrypha The Bible that Christians use today consists of a selection of writings that were commonly used in the congregations as Christianity spread in the years after the accession of Christ back to heaven. The Old Testament consists Jewish writings thought to be necessary for the Christian faith. The New Testament consists of Christian writings that were produced as Christianity developed in the early years. The Apocrypha is is a group of writings that were produced during the Intertestamental period between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Those writings have been accepted as having value by some Christian groups and therefore included in the Bibles that they use. Some of these are additions to standard Old Testament books. Other parts are complete books that are added to the Old Testament. Many Protestants, to include Seventh-day Adventists do not include them in their Bibles. In this document I will inform you as to the various material included in the Apocrypha. NOTE, Current SDA scholars are giving study to the comments that Ellen White make that are related to this issue. She was favorable. The Pseudepigrapha consists of similar writings that developed in the early years of Christianity. This is a very large collection of material, I will not further comment on those writings. How ever, it is interesting to note that the New Testament book of Jude, the 14tn verse clearly quotes from the Pseudepigraphal book of Enoch.

I have not heard that before. I know many Adventist who believe it was in the first week. Very interesting. How do we know that? I believe they did have sex before sin, and that is partially why Adam sinned. He understood Eve had sinned and that the serpent was the one they were warned about, but he did not want to lose Eve, so he ate the fruit too. But I could be wrong. The bible is not specific about when.

It was interesting hearing the former president’s speak at the funeral.

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.

Extremely well said! I'm going to incorporate this into my knowledge base! Humbling!

Reading Ellen white: How to understand and apply her writings, written by George Knight, is probably the best book that has been published on this subject. It can be purchased form Amazon.

I saw a YT short of a woman saying "I am glad Charlie Kirk is dead. He got what he deserved". A comment was that some people are evil now. It is evil to wish people dead. Is there a growing spirit of evil in America? We always talk about a shaking time in the church, but could there be a shaking time in the general population?

Nailed it!

I start out with the idea that "Hell Fire" is God present in person in all God's love, beauty and glory that purifies and calls out the best in everyone. Some people will find this heaven, but others who have not wanted the best in them to be in control will find it very, very uncomfortable to be with him. Jesus is their deepest desire, they long to run into his loving arms; but they don't know him. They are unforgiving people and thus cannot comprehend forgiveness. They picture what they would do to someone like themselves if they were God. They want to run to him but refuse to yield to this deepest desire. They want to but won't. In the end God treats everyone the same, but our choices depend on how we respond. While this comes from Ellen White, I believe that it's Biblical. She pictures us seeing Jesus coming in the clouds and we are overwhelmed and ask "Who shall be able to stand?" There is a moment of horrible silence, then Jesus says [sings?] "My grace is sufficient for you!" To these words we find two responses. Some realize "Yes, this is my friend Jesus and his grace is sufficient for me! This is my God and He will save me!" Jesus does not say "My grace is sufficient for you Stan and for you Matthew, but sorry Kevin, it's not sufficient for you." Jesus says to each and every one of us "My grace is sufficient for you." Some believe him, others have just had their ear drums vibrate to the sweetest sound it ever heard telling them that his grace is sufficient for them, but they do not believe him. They think he is lying and they run to the rocks... Heaven is total reality. In a lot of ways hell is the rejection of reality as they become slaves to the figment of their imagination. Building on this are the three aspects of the trinity, the issues of the great controversy which creatures need to ask if God is who God claims to be or not, and the mystery of how Lucifer instead of looking for the answers to this question, turned the question into three deceptions one against each member of the trinity. The Holy Spirit works with every heart. Every group/religion has a mixture of truth, error, misunderstandings and superstitions. The monotheistic religions have more truth available to them, especially as they accept the Bible and aspects of the Bible, but many with much truth available don't take advantage of this gift, while many with less available treasure what they have. The Holy Spirit has, and we should have "Listening Love" where we want to understand the other person, encourage them in the truth that they have and encourage them to grow. Being saved "in the name of Jesus" is not righteousness by vocabulary, but the character of Jesus, even if they are in religions that don't understand the word "J-E-S-U-S". or where he has been misrepresented over the centuries where the word becomes a sore spot and we expect them to just give up centuries of pain and that they are lost because they are uncomfortable saying that word. But they may know HIM, Who he is. Praying in Jesus name means to pray for the same types of things Jesus would pray for. Our Jewish and Muslim friends have an amazing amount of truth, but may not see it, and instead of helping them to see what they already have, we want them to give the correct vocabulary. Jesus cries at this. Historians said that it is not clear how pious Manfred von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was, but his hero was Oswald Boelcke who was very pious and a devote follower of the Lord. Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Von Richthofen tried to imitate Boelcke's Christlikeness. Very different from others who admired Boelcke's prowess in shooting down enemy planes but not his character. Von Richthofen was more impressed by Boelcke's character than he was by Boelcke's ability to shoot down enemy planes. Von Richthofen was impressed by the way the character of Jesus was reflected in Boelcke. Is this not accepting Jesus? When I was at Andrews, going through the White Estate vault, I came across a document that I believe that Mrs. White wrote. Since I cannot go back and confirm this I will not say "Mrs. White said..." but I was going through her writings and as far as I know she said this. The document talked about "atheists" and the writer but them into two groups. The one group were "infidels" who were in rebellion against God. The second group was called "Honest doubters" who questioned how God can exist with different issues we face in the world, but they develop caring, kind characters. This writer saw heaven as having room for these "honest doubters." It's late, so this is a place to start.

thanks I am going to set up a different email address for paypal, this may take a couple of days, It is so appreciated

Animals have such personalities. A couple of years ago a stray cat showed up, first at my sisters, but then two days later she walked right in my door as I opened it and she made herself at home. She only lets me stay there as long as I'm a faithful hired help.

My understanding of the SAbbath, is focused on what God established at creation and not what the Jews practiced. That Sabbath did not begin with the Jews. It did not end with the coming of Christ's birth over 2,000 years ago.

We see what Jesus predicted would come between nations and would increase prior to the Second Coming. Matthew 24:7 King James Version (KJV) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. We don't have to look far today at the nations of the world or the events that are on the news. You may see leaders who say they are ending the conflicts and talk of peace and curtailing of war, but it just keeps going along with ethnic violence, ethnic cleansing, and worse as race conflict seems on everyone's lips. On the economic side, we see the instability of world markets and the value of commodities and goods evaporating, and distinctions between rich and poor is becoming horrendous, with billionaires pushing their agendas, and the monies being taken by their friends and allies. Economic woes and labour unrest are foretold for the last days, and we are seeing it with Unions having nurses and doctors go on strike, along with pilots and many others making unbelievable wages, while the poor can't find a job for minimum ones. We see the treasures being heaped high and the prophecies being fulfilled... James 5:3-4 King James Version (KJV) 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their poison will be a witness against you, and will eat your flesh as fire. You heaped treasure in the last days. 4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. The Seven Last Plagues are sent by God from heaven, angels pour out vials of His wraith upon the face of the earth, and they are laid out.. Grievous sores Fresh water sources become like blood Oceans also become like blood The sun scorching men with great heat A great darkness The Euphrates River drying up and unclean spirits And a destructive earthquake and hail. The Bible doesn’t give us a specific date for these plagues, but it does say that just before the second coming of Jesus, they will befall on the earth. They are similar to the plagues that fell on Egypt and will happen in the last days. They came just before the Jews were freed from slavery much like the saints are going to be freed from the bondage of sin at the second coming. So lets look at the Seven Last Plagues... Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. The plagues appear to fall after the close of probation as the saints are sealed during this time such as never was. Revelation 16:1-15 King James Version (KJV) 1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. 8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty We see where SOP also says the Great Time of Trouble begins after the close of probation, "When Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man's behalf, then this time of trouble will begin. Then the case of every soul will have been decided, and there will be no atoning blood to cleanse from sin. When Jesus leaves His position as man's intercessor before God the solemn announcement is made, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still" (Rev. 22:11). Then the restraining Spirit of God is withdrawn from the earth."--PP 201 (1890) Then we see the last climatic event which will be heard as well as felt across the nations and peoples... Revelation 16:15-21 King James Version (KJV) 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Ellen White's writings give that the plagues will fall like the ones in Egypt, one right after the other, and then a final cataclysmic event as the saints look for deliverance.. Satan's host and wicked men will surround them and exult over them because there will seem to be no way of escape for them. But in the midst of their revelry and triumph there is heard peal upon peal of the loudest thunder. The heavens have gathered blackness, and are only illuminated by the blazing light and terrible glory from heaven, as God utters His voice from His holy habitation. The foundations of the earth shake, buildings totter and fall with a terrible crash. The sea boils like a pot and the whole earth is in terrible commotion. The captivity of the righteous is turned, and with sweet and solemn whisperings they say to one another: "We are delivered. It is the voice of God."--1T 353, 354 (1862). It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. . . . In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying, "It is done" (Rev. 16:17). That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. . . . The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free.--GC 635-637 (1911).

In my opinion, none of this matters much. For over 100 years, the church has been preaching about the Judgment. This is the next big event that counts. The Judgment of the living. I talked about it here : If we don't get pardoned in the judgment, nothing else matters. I believe the judgment of the living is going on right now.

? Wild highway Photo: Colorado Department of Transportation Construction is complete on what Colorado officials call North America's largest wildlife crossing — passing over a busy stretch of Interstate 25. Why it matters: The Greenland wildlife overpass covers a major migration zone for elk, mule deer, pronghorn, bears and mountain lions, Axios Denver's Alayna Alvarez writes. For decades, the freeway sliced through their routes, raising the risk of collisions. The new system will cut wildlife-vehicle crashes by 90%, Colorado transportation director Shoshana Lew estimates. At 209 feet long and 200 feet wide, the overpass spans six lanes of interstate traffic.

But they have crowns. That leads me to believe they are overcomers. It seems to me God would want overcomers in a leadership role in heaven. In the end, it does not really matter. What ever God's plan is, it is perfect.

Absolutely a true hero!

All salvation comes from God's gracious attitude towards us through what Jesus did for us. At the end of time God will treat everyone the same. God will show up in all his beauty, love, glory, and overwhelming event. Some will find this event to be heaven, others will find this event to be hell. Like when the divinity flashed through Jesus when cleaning the temple (at least at the second cleaning.) People ran in two directions. The money changers were running away, while the children, poor and lame were running to him (and remember Jesus had a whip. How often do you find children running with joy to someone holding a whip? Yet, this is what happened when Jesus showed his "wrath".) Only this time there is no place to flee as God's glory fills the whole world. Everyone is born with a few things: Different levels of intelligence, cultures, environments, points in history. We all have in us two attitudes fighting. One is our deepest desire, to want to love the world on an honest basic, to be fair, to love the world as Jesus has loved it. Fighting this is a weaker, but often placed in power in our lives, a disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. A disposition to esteem ourselves more highly than others, to serve self, to seek the highest place, to manipulate or try to manipulate others especially through things such as criticizing, complaining, blaming, nagging, threatening, punishing, rewarding to control. We also seem to have been born with our temperaments, two out of five possible love languages, two out of five possible apology languages, and our attachment styles. The Holy Spirit works with every person, pointing them to the character ("name") of God as our personal friend (God the Son). All religions have varying amounts of truth and superstitions. People make choices of reaching out to or rejecting the character of God as our personal friend, through the two principles of somehow reaching out to what or whoever may be out there and from this to love their neighbors as themselves. The three monotheistic religions have available WITHIN their framework a looking beyond the forces of nature to the creator. The two based on the Bible have even more truth available to them, with of course the Christians open to study the Bible with the insight that God the Son came and lived among us, and additional insights from records of his life and insights from those who directly witnessed seeing him, including seeing him after the resurrection, or records of people who had direct connection to these witnesses. Protestantism has a mindset of reading the Bible and making the Bible the final authority. And Seventh-day Adventists have the great controversy philosophy (which archaeology has pointed out was a big issue for the ancient world where the Bible was written, but which we have lost sight of in culture.) Now, just because we have more information available to us does not mean that we are allowing them to affect our lives and thinking. People with less information may cherish what they understand while people with more information may ignore it. All may be drawn away by traditions and superstitions. From this I cannot say that all religions lead to God; but God and Satan both have people in all religions. The big issue is HIS CHARACTER, Who HE is, What he did for us. The Holy Spirit working on our hearts to point us in the direction of the character of God as personal friend, and from this to God being the great power and ultimate authority. Sadly, too many Christians turn the salvation through God's gracious character and who HE is, to salvation through being a Christian, salvation through the religion. The false thinking that a Jew, Muslim or other cannot be saved because they are not "Christians" That they have not said the right things about Jesus and give the history lesson about what Jesus did for us. Anwar Sadat was raised by his mother and grandmother with a simple faith of trusting in Allah. In college he got into a more complex nationalistic political form of Islam. Yet, he still had a love for God. He spent so many hours in prayer that a callus formed on his forehead. When he lost the 1973 war, he felt responsible for all the deaths. He turned his back on the more complicated political version of Islam and turned to the simple faith of his mother and grandmother. He realized that he needed to forge a peace with Israel. At Camp David, there were three men of faith and prayer, a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian. They stopped their work at prayer times and were able to work out a solution. In Psalm 23:5 it says that the Lord prepares a table in the presence of enemies. To the ancient world this means forgiveness and reconciliation. After Camp David was arranged, a table for the enemies of Egypt and Israel meet for the reconciliation meal. Now, people wondered about a personal event in this feast. Sadat and Golda Mier had totally hated each other on a personal level. They had never mentioned the other by name. Sadat would only call her "That Old Lady" and she would only call him "That Egyptian." Yes, there was the table of forgiveness for the politics of the two governments, but what about these two individuals? In the receiving line, as these two bitter enemies came face to face, Mier said "Mr. President, what took you so long? At these words Sadat just started laughing, and Mier just started laughing. The hatred they had for each other melted. (I don't remember for sure but I believe that I read/heard that they made a joke about the names they gave each other.) The table of forgiveness became not only political between states, but was also personal between these two individuals who remained friends for the rest of their lives. These actions were accepting and reflecting the character of God the Son, and coming to the power of God the Father through God as personal friend. They are saved through how they accepted the character of God the Son. (and as you look at Sadat, the impact of God upon his life, and how he decided to stand for the right even though it lead to his martyrdom, indicates that he could have well have reached what Ellen White describes as last generation perfection.) Dr. Chan was a Buddhist dentist living in Cambodia. When he heard that the Khmer Rouge came to power, he threw his glasses off his face and stomped on them on the floor, ran home got his family and moved to a part of Cambodia where no one knew who they were and they pretended to be ignorant illiterates. Eventually they were able to go to a refugee camp in Thailand. There were Baptists working in the camps to help the refugees and shared the story about Jesus. The Chan family converted from Buddhism to Christianity. Later they came to southern California where there were Seventh-day Adventists helping the refugees, and they decided to learn more about Seventh-day Adventism and decided to become Seventh-day Adventists. One Sabbath at church, one of the women who were helping the refugees noticed that Dr. Chan's body tightened and went pale. He started shaking and ran out of the church. She went after him to find out what was wrong. She found him on the lawn of the church just shaking and repeating the words "It's him! It's him..." As he was asked what was wrong, Dr. Chan replied "You may find this crazy, but as a child I knew that I had a special friend. Now, I could not see him nor hear him, yet he has always been just as real to me at my friends who I could see and hear. I believe that he helped me to remove and trample on my glasses. I believe that he lead me and my family as we looked for someplace we were unknown, and that he lead to Thailand and finally to the United States. Even though I became a Christian in Thailand, today, for the first time in my life I realize that this special, life long friend of mine is Jesus!" Religions can be a help or a hindrance, but from all religious beliefs (even secularism and so called atheism -- I have not come over this document's words anyplace else for me to absolutely say that it was by Ellen White, but I came across it in the EGW vault at Andrews, and I believe that it was written by Sister White, but this document placed "atheists" into two different groups. One was labeled, infidels. But the author also gave a second group of atheists labeled "Honest Doubters" and that heaven has room for the "Honest Doubters." Whether the writer was Mrs. White or not, I agree with that document. There is the issue of faith that transcends religions. When you read about the Norwegian revivalist Hans Nielsen Hague, or the character of World War I German ace Oswald Boelcke, and how World War I ace Manfred von Richthofen responded to Boelcke's Christlikeness. The Roman Catholic actor Bob Newheart and Jewish comedian Don Rickels were both men of faith, and they felt a special friendship based on their shared love and devotion to their family and to God. They would join each other in worshiping in both Church and Synagogue and recognizing both Christian and Jewish holidays. Herman's Hermit's lead singer Peter Noone had been a devote Catholic. He met a lady who was a devote Jew. They fell in love, and felt that a large part of their relationship was their shared love for God. They have had one of show business longest and happiest marriages. When they decided to marry, instead of just running off, Peter petitioned and received permission from the Church to marry her without her converting to Catholicism (One article I read said that he asked the Pope for permission, but I have not seen that since, only his getting permission from the church.) and they worship in both the Church and Synagogue, and they have a daughter they raised in both the church and synagogue.

That and the cellphones, the young people rarely pull their gaze away to even think on doing good for others, as they check to see what the 'latest' is in fashion, fads, or face creams to say the least, or ways to get more worldly possessions for themselves...

Do they not see that they are aligned with Apostate Protestants who are rapidly constructing an image to the Beast?

I don't think many in America think of themselves as socialists. Although in EU and Canada, there may be SDA's who consider themselves socialists. There are many people who believe it is our duty to help others. This includes public financial assistance, immigration assistance and legal assistance. They have a large compassion for people. In how we accomplish this, is where many disagreements come in. I know many people in America on both sides of the issue. They are not bad people. They are good people with different solutions. Some are very passionate about their views.