Leaderboard

In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

We are living in a time when it is important not to be misunderstood. The bottom line is that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a terrible crime. He was not a perfect person, but that does not negate the fact that it was a terrible crime. In an effort to prevent misunderstanding, I am asking that we refrain from commenting on any imperfections that we may think are related to him, regardless of whether they are true or not. Violations of my request will be considered for removal. NOTE: I have discussed this with Stan who is aware of my decision.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

I believe the earth is around 6000 years old. I believe the creation of this planet happened in 6 days. I believe God created man from the dust of the earth.

My father was a Adventist minister, so I grew up listening to innumerable sermons and Daniel and Revelation prophecy series, and my mother did the various church and health messages, think '5 day plan to stop smoking', and I knew what was coming for each night. But, come to the present as we are getting to the final days, and I sometimes seem to struggle in what sermon to bring before the brethren, as I volunteer for the sermon as a elder. I thought I was the only one, that some weeks I had no idea what sermon for this time to preach about, till almost the day of the sermon. But I have become aware that others also struggle to find what they should preach especially after hitting all the major points and beliefs, especially for the last days and prophecy. It might be that some are between ideas for what the brethren need or just struggling for ideas. If we who preach as lay preachers were all honest, we’ve come across this, or come to the point of asking, ”What do the people need?” So how do you find a message, especially for these last days, from God’s Word that your church needs and you are excited about?

Even more so now. The division has never been greater in North America. We cannot forget the division of Vax vs Non-Vax Now we have a divide about illegal immigrants and ICE. In Lake Union this has become a problem. My friends tell me that church attendance is down in many white churches, and people are watching on the internet. I can see a correlation to the controversial issues. The next dividing topic will be the war in Iran. It seems like lots of shaking in North America. Let us not forget, the NAD makes up less than 10% of the Adventist Church.

The following is a lilting of the materials that are commonly included in the Apocrypha. In some cases, I may have shortened the title from what is the title as included in Bibles. Also, I do not list in the order in which they are included in the Bibles. If you wish to read the following, they are probably all available on the Internet. 1st Maccabees: This book is considered to be the best history that we have of the specific period of time that it describes. 2nd Maccabees: This book is thought to have some historical value for the covered period of time, but not as much as the one directly above. NOTE: Two other similar (3rd & 4th) versions did not make it into the cannon of any present Christian group. The Three Holy Children: This section tells the story of the three who were thrown into the furnace of fire, their conversations while they were in the furnace, and their deliverance. Susanna: This is the story of a woman falsely accused of immoral conduct. Daniel steps in to defend her and proves her innocent. It is an addition to the book of Daniel. Bel and the Dragon: This is a fanciful story of Daniel who destroyed the Babylonian god Bel, and also a dragon god, who was then thrown into the den of lions for 6-days during which God fed Daniel., 1st Esdras: This is a long story of how Cyrus allowed the Jews to return from their captivity in Babylon to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. 2nd Esdras: This book begins with the story of God delivering the Jews from Egypt. It has a focus on End Time Events that differs from the other book. Prayer of Manasses: He is a captive in Babylon. This is his prayer asking for forgiveness. Tobit: This is the story of a righteous man on a journey, accompanied by an angel of God who encounters an evil spirit. He heals people with gall. One person dies at 185 years of age. Tobit dies at 127 years of age. Judith: In this story, God uses the woman, Judith to deliver Israel from the enemy. It differs some, but, is similar to the story of Jael killing Sisera in Judges 4:17-22. Additions to Esther: These additions to the book of Esther expand upon the story of the attempt to kill the Jews and how Esther approached the King to request that they be saved. Wisdom of Solomon: This is simply alleged to be the teachings of King Solomon. Christians would likely agree with much. Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus: This is a collection of the teachings of a man named Jesus who lived many years prior to Jesus the Christ. Baruch: this book was written to Jews in captivity in Babylon. It states that such happened due to their sins and assures them that if they repent, God will deliver them and return them to their previous land.

I used to work (at a low end salary) for a high-end art and antiques gallery in Los Angeles. Pieces I worked on were displayed in museums and attracted international attention in the art world. The gallery owner had been collecting art for decades, having been introduced to the art world as a child by his grandmother. Among his holdings was a painting of Philip baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch. He believed it to be an original Rembrandt. In order to validate his belief, he took it to Europe for certification by Rembrandt authorities there. They denied that it was an original Rembrandt, instead consigning it to one of his students or other painter. Disappointed, he returned home to America. Sometime after he returned, he received a letter from the chairman of the art history department of a major university, offering to help him certify the painting for a 10% slice of the sale price. which would have put hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pocket. On another occasion, I bought an inexpensive picture which is still displayed in our home. Several years after the purchase, I saw an identical painting written up in an online news source. The painting was being touted as an original antique painting, a great discovery in the art world. Knowing something about the fakery that goes on, I contacted the gallery advertising it. I never heard back. I did see, however, an article retracting previous claims made regarding the picture. I don't believe my note had anything to do with the retraction. Simply a matter of a "scholar" doing a little homework. Fraud is ubiquitous in the art world, whether it be "antique" furniture, paintings, or whatever. Estate sales are another venue for being duped. Gallery owners routinely "plant" pieces they own to ad some cachet to a piece they haven't been able to sell out of their shop. I once told a client that the piece he was buying was a recent copy rather than an antique. He immediately went to the owner (not the same one that had the non-Rembrandt). He returned and we finished putting the item in his car. The shop owner then reviled me for telling the customer the truth. People want to believe what they want to believe. The religious world is similar, in some respects. I know nothing of the sculpture to which the article refers; however, let the buyer beware

I made a post on a social media, which was my opinion, that Israel and friends need to liberate Gazians from Hamas just as the Allies and Russia liberated Germans from Nazis. I still believe that. I do not expect everyone else to. If you befriend a Gasian so they will trust you, most would say the same thing. They are aware that Hamas has paid informants who try to abstract that from Gazians and then remove their remaining family from being alive. They may never trust you enough; they all have heard stories, fictional or not, of such. Back to the topic, many long-term friends blocked me over that. I suspect most of them were left-leaning, but I could be wrong. Has anyone else had that kind of experience? Stan

They told their clergy to ensure the will is up to date, as they may end up giving their lives for their neighbours. https://www.npr.org/2026/01/18/nx-s1-5678579/ice-clashes-new-hampshire-bishop-urges-clergy-prepare-wills#:~:text=Bishop Rob Hirschfeld in the,Hirschfeld's comments quickly went viral.

Very well written, thank you. Israel, as a nation, has some of the best laws for the protection of religious liberty. That is seldom talked about. In the Israeli military, there are Muslims fighting against Hamas to protect their country. That is seldom talked about. We have all benefited from the inventions and innovations of the Children of Israel. That is seldom talked about.

What kind of person would be willing to lay down his life for an 'undesirable'

thanks I am going to set up a different email address for paypal, this may take a couple of days, It is so appreciated

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

Stephen Smith and the Unopened Testimony - Adventist Review Amazing. 12 miles each way. In who knows what kind of weather. Life back then was very different.

Is it possible for humans to have some organs that have a XX configuration and other organs that have a XY configuration? " Intersex people might have sex organs that include both XX and XY sex characteristics. " See : https://scienceline.org/2020/10/beyond-x-y-chromosomes-and-sex-organs/ NOTE: i first learned about this many years ago when I was a chaplain to a large military police unit (Brigade). This has implications for the use of genetic material in criminal investigations.

"Yes, it is possible for a human to have some organs with an XX configuration and other organs with an XY configuration. This is a common occurrence in individuals with intersex conditions, where the body's reproductive organs and sexual anatomy do not conform to the typical definitions of male or female. Intersex is an umbrella term that encompasses a range of conditions, including Klinefelter syndrome, where an individual is assigned male at birth but has an extra X chromosome, and Morgan's syndrome, where an individual is assigned female at birth but has an extra Y chromosome. These conditions are part of the natural variation in human biology and do not indicate any underlying disease or disorder. " Arizona State University+5

? Pic du jour Photo: Stewart Verdery Reader Stewart Verdery — who's sent us some brilliant parting shots over the years — tells us: "I actually think this was the coolest photo of 2025." "On a transatlantic flight in September into Dulles, I ... happened to look over and see the sunset from 35,000 feet over the Atlantic. Looks like the sun is sitting on top of the clouds."

In my opinion, none of this matters much. For over 100 years, the church has been preaching about the Judgment. This is the next big event that counts. The Judgment of the living. I talked about it here : If we don't get pardoned in the judgment, nothing else matters. I believe the judgment of the living is going on right now.

NOTE: In the above "holy catholic church" does not refer to the Roman Catholic Church. It is a simple statement to the effect that the Church of God is a universal church, and SDAs agree with such.

But they have crowns. That leads me to believe they are overcomers. It seems to me God would want overcomers in a leadership role in heaven. In the end, it does not really matter. What ever God's plan is, it is perfect.

* The Ten Commandments is not the primary reason that Seventh-day Adventists teach that Christians should keep the Sabbath. * The SDA teaching on the Sabbath is founded on their belief in the Creation story in early Genesis in which God set apart a 7th day to met with humanlity and grow us spiritualy.

There may not be a simple answer that applies to all congregations. The answer may lie in knowing the congregation. What are the individual needs of the people who attend? Congregations differ as people differ. Not all are the same. \

October 20, 2025 Ellen White is one of several people who were foundational to the mission and development of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Whatever one might think of her ministry, she cannot be dismissed. Her influence did not end with her death more than 100 years ago. Her many writings remain and are often quoted today. Yet, they are often misunderstood. With the passage of much time, the story of her life and ministry has generated some of what I call pious fiction. This is often laudatory and celebrated with good intent by people who believe it, but it may lack documentation. SDA pious fiction should not be cons considered to be unusual. The story of Christianity in general and the development of the Protestant and Catholic groups also contain such material. People want to know the history of important organizations in their lives. They want to think of them as flawless and in a positive manner. Such is not reality. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is not perfect. The last time I read of an imperfection in SDA Church was yesterday in a report of an SDA pastor who will likely be tried in a criminal court. Ellen White was human, imperfect and fallible. In honoring her ministry to the SDA Church, she should not be glorified beyond her humanity. God used her, while she was an imperfect human. God can use us, imperfect as we may be. My purpose in this thread is to inform our readers of important sources of information related to her life and ministry. Some will focus on her life, and others will focus on her ministry. Some will attempt to dispel our resident pious fictions. Others will attempt to present her writings in a proper manner for usage. This will include understanding how she developed them. For the moment, I will lock this thread. I will decide later whether to unlock it. This will likely take some time to develop. Today, I am busy with distributing food to the needy. But, I will work on developing this thread. Blessings on all.

There is a reality that all students of the SDA Church must face. Ellen White is an early cofounder of what is now the SDA Church. I do not believe that she has as much influence on the development of SDA doctrine as some would propose that she had. I will be teh first to say that she played a major role in the administrative development of the SDA Church. She had major roles in our entry into missions, education, healthcare, and publishing. We would not be a denomination of 23 million people today if it were not for her role in our development. I believe that God used her. But, God uses imperfect people. She was not divine. She was human. she was not always correct in her theology. No human is. Other denominations acknowledge that their early leaders were imperfect. Gustave would be the first to acknowledge that there have been Popes who were imperfect. Why can we not do the same. Why can we not admit that Ellen White was a human, who was imperfect, but still used by God. God has used me in spite of my being imperfect., as all humans are.

The number of military chaplains who have been killed in combat is probably little known by the American public. Arlington National Cemetery has a special section where such chaplains are buried. It currently lists 134 Protestant chaplains, 83 Catholic chaplains, 14 Jewish chaplains, and 23 chaplains who ae not listed as to religious background. This information was obtained from the following website: https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Monuments-and-Memorials/Chaplains-Hill NOTES: * Under the Geneva Convention military chaplains are not combatants and do not use weapons. * I am just one of several SDA chaplains who has served in combat. * There are some 81 Protestant and 3 Catholic chaplains who have been killed in combat but have not yet have their names entered in the memorial. * For more information see: https://www.votervoice.net/mobile/AmericanLegion/Campaigns/131063/Respond

On a regular basis, Adventist Today hosts a Zoom Conference of some religious issue. After the conference, they are posted on the Internet. Those postings can be accessed at: https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventistTodayMedia Scroll past other material to the following: ATSS Presents. NOTE: The conference on Reclaiming the Prophet is posted in a thread titled Ellen G. White and Adventism.

I started my online apologetics efforts back when "web t.v." was available to buy. I was so impressed with it I bought my Dad one to use. Since those days I've been on multiple forums and compliment this forum for being so welcoming and allowing others who don't share the same faith traditions to share what they believe openly without being subject to perpetual attack. I've been very impressed with Stan and Pastor Matthews - you guys run a quality ship.

The issue is that no one should be forced to participate in something that violates their own belief. And not one should have to spend those last few weeks of their life in painful agony needlessly, we will let our loved ones suffer in a way we would not let our pets suffer.

This false teaching is not only foreign to the Bible—it lacks logical consistency. https://adventistreview.org/theology/bible-study/eternal-submission-of-the-son/

Did you honestly mean that as a legitimate question? Generally there are those around the guilty that know what is going on and are afraid to speak out. If you have never been close to a situation of clergy abuse you don't understand the punch in the gut it is to find out how many have known. That knowledge itself is almost as bad as the actual physical abuse. And yes,those that knew and did nothing deserve to pay a price for their silence. I am fairly certain that is what was meant by that statement

I've learned to be very cautious when reading things from Adventist scholars but at 1st glance the premise of the article is something I agree with - I'm pleasantly surprised here phkrause! Aquinas and St. Augustine wrote about this.

People some time ask how one can believe in a creation by God and also that new species come to exist and die out, as i believe. The question is valid, but based upon a misunderstanding of what the Bible actually says, I will suggest. Genesis, chapter one clearly states, in multiple places that God created every "kind" of life that exists. But, the meaning of the word "kind" is never defined. Science gives a two-word title to every form of life that exists. The first word establishes a Genus for that form of life. The second word establishes a Species. As an example, human life has been given the scientific name Homo sapiens. A question is: If the Bible says that God created every "kind" of life, is it saying that God directly created every species that exists? My answer is no. I do not believe that such is being said. I have no idea as to what the Bible means when it uses the word "kind." I have no problem with believing that new species come into existence and die out.

Dr. George Knight, a SDA historian, has written a 140-page book on how to read and understand the writings of Kellen White. I consider it to be of great value. It contains 22 chapters. Amazon sells it for $11. The following link takes you to that place. * The first 4-chapters deal with EGWs relation to the Bible. * The next 16 chapters deal with how to understand (Interpret) her writings. * The last 2 chapters deal with how to apply her writings to yourself and to others. https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Ellen-White-Understand-Writings/dp/0828012636/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1H7FHPY751V0R&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mhKYtLjNSDj8a6FaZxgFwefMcBLFO-brLPHKKRBlU09Xvt8tUCR8RMdjq4XSWrQTQeN_ORIcyQtufEKc_3xyLXs6aM-AGrdldCL9Ki14q5ihmqPedyMrn3KYmVwmFhhCZQMl7wmkxi89sBoWfEzpS9NokFU07mwgg1muAsX5347csZdi1ZQ4tAlgPr-is3PJ4uXPHv9__f6VoMCiDFwPYuwrP9B0VlY6yLheuAw94Vs.4BkUEUeDof7rx_U9Z73ywLBYnuj38w0OtXzGtz1QMYc&dib_tag=se&keywords=reading+ellen+white&qid=1757803665&sprefix=reqding+ellen+white%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1 In short, this book deals with a balanced approach to the use of her writings while maintaining that the Bible is the standard for all living today.

Dr. Timothy Standish of the Geoscience Research Institute is reported to have made the following critical comment: “Those of you who are familiar with the way in which the church was restructured into its current form in the 1901 and 1903 General Conferences will recall that it was a response to the direct message from God that was given to us by sister Ellen G. White. There is a trend that has been apparent in changes over the years that have gone against that intent, which was to move power from the General Conference down to the local level. We are in rebellion against that message from God himself. This particular change reflects that rebellion. It moves the power from those on the ground who need funding for doing the mission. It moves it to the General Conference in another city, in another land, on a different continent. I stand I hope with all of you who respect the messenger of the Lord and the message that she gave all those years ago that applies to the General Conference today.” See: https://atoday.org/random-observations-from-way-way-upstairs-on-day-7/

With thanks to spectrum: Faith and Politics Highlights Adventist Concerns Over Walmart’s Sabbath Policy Seventh-day Adventists are once again at the center of pressing legal and ethical questions. A recent lawsuit filed by the EEOC against Marriott Vacations Worldwide spotlights the challenges Adventist employees face when Sabbath observance conflicts with workplace demands. This tension takes center stage in the latest episode of Faith and Politics, where panelists explore Walmart’s new scheduling guidelines that may force workers to choose between their convictions and careers. The show also examines a zoning dispute in Florida, where a city order threatens a church-run food pantry. Both cases raise a common question: What happens when honoring your faith collides with the policies of powerful institutions?

This is so stupid. I am so disgusted. Absolutely no VALID reason for keeping those figures under their hat. Every day, it's something new. ?

Yes, however, even more accurate is to remove the word "and" and just leave a dash "Evenings-Mornings" This indicates cyclic time based on the evenings and mornings of creation week; and the cycles we find in Leviticus 23 and 25 which we also find here and there in Deuteronomy. Leviticus 23 and 25 have the cyclic week of six days plus the Sabbath, six months and either Passover or Yom Kippur, six years and the Sabbatical year, and in Leviticus but NOT in Deuteronomy, six Sabbatical years and the Jubilee. Thus the Hebrew cycles are day=month=year= (in Leviticus only, but not Deuteronomy) Sabbatical year. Thus the cycles we can use in Daniel 8:14 would be days, month and/or years (Since Daniel is based on Deuteronomy, and was a student of Jeremiah, who there is evidence that Jeremiah was likely the Deuteronomic Historian and possibily the final editor of Moses, the book of the law, into our Deuteronomy, we need to limit the 2300 evenings-mornings cycles to days, months, or years.) Some people want to fit it into the two sacrifices and thus 1150 days and apply it to Antiochus Epiphanes. However, while it fit's him a little better than 2300 days, they still do not fit well (conservative commentaries tend to over look this, more liberal commentaries tend not to.) However, the term for the sacrifices are "Morning and Evening" I've read a couple of commentaries that said that the writer of Daniel was clearly Dyslexic because he meant to write "Morning and Evening" but his dyslexia caused him to write it "Evenings-Mornings." putting the two words in oposite locations and forgetting the word "and". There is evidence that supports the Adventist understanding of Daniel 8:14. However, it turns out that one of these pieces of evidence that I had learned from years ago has not stood up as we learn more. I just want to be honest and not leave out there outdated information. It's been said that a medical professor would start out the first day for that school's med students with the phrase "Half of what you learn from me and in these next 4 years of medical school will be wrong, however, we do not yet know which half." and one of my professors used to say "Students often ask me if I'll give the same final exam that I gave the last semester. I reply 'yes, but that does not mean that you can take that exam and not study, because while the questions do not change the answers may change as we learn more." Now, if the Seventh-day Adventist understanding of the 2300 Evenings-Mornings did not have merrit, we would find little if any evidence supporting it, and much evidence against it. However, there is a fair amount of evidence to indicate that we are on the right track. And over the years more evidence has come to support it, this is just one piece of evidence that, at least current information and understanding of the information, indicates that we can no longer list this among the evidence.