Divisions of Mosaic Law into Moral, Ceremonial, etc?

[benherndon]

It is common in SDA circles to speak of the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Laws as if they are divisions of the Law of Moses.

Please provide Biblical evidence for the separation beween the two. Give text references, please.

Ben

[David Koot]

I am a bit busy tonight, getting ready for a video shoot, but yes, the divisions are evident from a careful reading of the books of Exodus and Leviticus. Perhaps within the next few days, will be able to go back once again and provide references. Those divisions were also recognized by the Reformers, for example, Luther, Wesley, Calvin.

Dave

[benherndon]

TExt references?

Ben

[benherndon]

You have shown that mankind has taken the Law of Moses and divided it up. Where is the Bible's authorization to do so?

Is it not really just one Law pertaining to man's life as a God fearing and worshipping Jew? Nothing in the rest of the Bible that I can find supports references to the 'moral' law vs 'cermonial' law vs civil law vs health law. Sr. White in reference to Gal 3;24,25 ---well go look it up---she wrote it refered to the moral law....and ceremonial law...and to both at different times. Later she told the brethren to quit discussing it because of the division it was producing among them, it seems. She even rather hushed up the then GC Pres for discussing it.

If you believe in ceremonial law being separate from moral, than civic, than health....please show me some authorization to do so from the Bible itself. I don't much care what the Reformers did on this subject, and I've known that.

Anybody else found Biblical support for such divisions?

Ben

[David Koot]

Will get there, in time. Busy day today. Patience, patience! Tis a virtue! :)

[Robert]

It is common in SDA circles to speak of the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Laws as if they are divisions of the Law of Moses.

There are no divisions. "The book of the law" is the first five books of the OT. Within this book is the moral law - the Ten Commandments.

This issue was dealt with in the 1888 GC. Even Ellen White referred to the law in Galatians (the big controversy back then) as both the moral and ceremonial laws. In other words she saw them as a unit and not divided up....

Robert

[David Koot]

Within this book is the moral law - the Ten Commandments.

[Robert]

"I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the

school-master to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial

and the moral code of ten commandments."

"'The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith' (Galatians 3:24). In this Scripture, the Holy Spirit through the apostle is speaking especially of the moral law."

Context:

Gal 3:24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

What law? Both the ceremonial and the moral law!

[LifeHiscost]

Please provide Biblical evidence for the separation beween the two. Give text references, please. Ben

"" On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:40 NASB

Good to hear from you, Ben.

Blessings!!

[benherndon]

Now I have a rather weak point to make....but think about it first before flat out rejecting it.

Moses was THE human leader of about 2 million slaves treking the Sinai...large crowd. Obviously he has to bring order among them and establish his authority before and to them. They only heard the 'voice of God' once as I recall...to wit: as they were afraid, trembling amidst thundering lightning earthquake, etc, the voice of God giving them the Ten Commandments. This is Moses writing the story, right? He gave all sorts of other rules regulations and laws quoting God as saying, do ALL these things, teach your kids and generations to follow 'forever'....and these were all written down and recorded on scrolls. Obviously the first of the Ten Cs were crushed by MOses, SO-O-O, it was the second pair of stones that were put into the Ark, a 'box' measuring about 18 inches by 18 inches by something like over two feet. Pretty small for anything more than the 2nd tables of stone, Aaron's rod and the Jar of Manna. Where is Moses to put the Book of the Law?? NO room in the Ark for all those scrolls containing all 5 books 'of the Law'. Was, then, the tables of stone a PROXY for the Book of Moses which couldn't fit into the box of the Ark....so was stashed beside the Ark in the MHP? Think about it.

Here's' some indirect support...2Cor 3 refers to the Old Covenant and the NEW Covenant...'Covenant' and 'Testament' are synonymous terms---Old Covenant section of the Bible is called Old Testament/Covenant and NT is referred to as New Testament/Covenant. Christ is quoted as saying (Matt 11:13)"For all Prophets and the Law prophesied UNTIL John (the Baptist?). And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear." Doesn't that reference by Jesus indicate the whole of the Old Testament/Covenant....i.e., "LAW" and "Prophets" equals the whole of the Old Testament/Covenant??

Could it be...that 2Cor 3 which refers to 'letters written on stones', the Old Covenant and the New Covenant means, by inference, that the 'tables of stone' is/were a PROXY for the entire Law of Moses??? Gal 3 says the "law" was to last until faith came (viz, the Gospel of Christ that sinners are reconciled by Him to the father) AND in Gal 4 (about the allegory of two women) that Hagar represented ALL the authority of the entire Law of Moses which was to be 'cast out' (see the KJV on this), AND in Eph 2:8 where it says Christ in His flesh 'abolished' the Law with its regulations (again...the entire Law including the Ten Cs which might well have been PROXY for the entire Law inside the Holy Ark of the Covenant? Col 2 ... similarly?

Just asking.....well what could this possibly have to do with a 'mandatory Sabbath observance'? Wasn't the Law and including th 'authority' of the entire Old Covenant 'abolished'???

I'm just searching and thinking---since in NO WAY can I keep any Law perfectly or consistently----as I was taught I could someday if I humbled my heart and got very very pious!

I am NOT preaching... just ASKING if anybody else has had similar thoughts?

Ben

[David Koot]

the 'tables of stone' is/were a PROXY for the entire Law of Moses???

[David Koot]

deleted by David Koot as duplicate post.]

[Gerr]

It is common in SDA circles to speak of the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Laws as if they are divisions of the Law of Moses.

Please provide Biblical evidence for the separation beween the two. Give text references, please.

Ben

Actually, there wasn't just one law, even in the 5 books of Moses.

There is the law [torah] of burnt offering, Lev 6:9.

There is the law [torah] of meat offering, Lev 6:14.

There is the law [torah] of sin offering, Lev 7:1.

There is the law [torah] of peace offering, Lev 7:11.

There is the law [torah] of beast & fowl that man can eat, Lev 11:46.

There is the law [torah] of plague & leprosy, Lev 13:59.

There is the law [torah] about body discharges, Lev 15:32.

There is the law [torah] about jealousy, Nu 5:29.

There is the law [torah] about Nazirite, Nu 6:21.

As you can see, there are many laws within the Law. The Hebrew word "torah" which is translated as "law" simply means: 1. direction, instruction 1A. instruction, direction (whether divine or human) 1A1. body of prophetic teaching 1A2. instruction in Messianic age 1A3. body of priestly direction or instruction, 1A4. body of legal directives, 1B. law, 1B1. law of burnt offering, 1B2. of special law, codes of law, 1C. custom, manner 1D the Deuteronomic or Mosaic law. From Enhanced Strong.

One can see then that the word torah/law can be a very specific law/instruction, or a very general word describing a body or code of laws, or it can even refer to the 10c as in Dt 27:8, 33:2. So the only way, it seems to me, that one can determine which way torah is being used is by the context.

Furthermore, the law itself is divided into: testimonies, statutes, & judgments.

[color:red] "Now this is the law [torah] which Moses set before the children of Israel. These are the testimonies, the statutes, and the judgments which Moses spoke to the children of Israel after they came out of Egypt..." Dt 4:44 NKJ.

What are "testimonies?" This is from Heb "edah" which means: 1. testimony, witness 2. always plural and always of laws as divine testimonies.

What are "statutes?" From Heb "choq": 1. statute, ordinance, limit, something prescribed, due. 1A. prescribed task. 1B. prescribed portion. 1C. action prescribed (for oneself), resolve. 1D. prescribed due. 1E. prescribed limit, boundary 1F. enactment, decree, ordinance. 1F1. specific decree 1F2. law in general. 1G. enactments, statutes 1G1. conditions. 1G2 enactments. 1G3. decrees 1G4. CIVIL enactments prescribed by God.

As you can see, even though all the laws/instructions/directions/customs [torah] were not so neatly categorized as we would like into ceremonial, moral, and civil laws, Moses himself did have different categories for all the instructions he gave.

My two cents.

Gerry

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: benherndon

Wasn't the Law . . . 'abolished'???

Nope.

Ben, David is right! The law has not been abolished, rather it has been fulfilled.

Go to Gal 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, [why?] 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.

Christ came to redeem you from "under the law" - from under its just demands. As I stated in another section, the law of God requires 3 things (and you won't find this by exploring the letter of the law):

1] Perfect, unblemished righteousness in thought, deed and action.

2] A sinless, glorified life.

Just the fact that we have "the law of sin" residing in us makes us imperfect and therefore sinners. As Paul says, "We were by nature children of wrath". And David tells us that he was a sinner by birth:

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."

Iniquity is a condition we are born with. It is "the driver" that makes all transgression possible. We are born with a "bent" towards self. Since we are born outside God we naturally love self. Christ's love is opposite that for His love is outward...it is selfless.

3] Since we are sinners by nature and by performance the law justly demands that we must eternally die.

How did Christ answer the law? Did He do it by doing away with the law? No, Jesus fulfilled the law in every detail! He made the law honorable! How so?

A] At the incarnation Jesus assumed our fallen life under the curse. For thirty something years Jesus lived a perfect life in obedience to God's law.

B] However, since the flesh He assumed was our fallen flesh indwelt by sin and since that in itself condemns us, Jesus took our "old life" to the cross and it died the wages of sin.

C] Sunday morning God raised the deity of Christ (which never died) together with a glorified humanity. Christ took this humanity to heaven where He presents it before His father's law.

When you accept Him by faith you are,

D] Accepting His life of obedience as your own. How? Your life was in Him and when He obeyed you were made obedient.

E] When you accept Him by faith you are also accepting His death as your death. How? Because you died to the law in the body of Christ. Your old man was crucified with Him. That life was left in the grave.

F] When you accept Him by faith you are accepting His glorified life as your glorified life. How? It is your life redeemed from all sin that Christ took to heaven. By faith Christ presents this life before God's law. Guess what? In Christ you stand perfect in every detail.

Does that mean you can live like a devil? No! Why not? Because the principle of God’s law is being written into your mind. So with your mind you joyfully concur with God’s law, but your flesh will oppose this selfless love because it is bent on serving self. And that’s the struggle….If we are not struggling with sin then something is wrong with our faith. Hence, faith without deeds is a dead faith. I’m not talking about perfection here.

In the judgment the accuser, Satan, will point to you (Ben) and tell Christ, “Who are you kidding – this man is a sinner and he doesn’t deserve heaven. Besides, Your own law condemns Ben. You have no right to allow him in.”

Christ will then use your fruit done in love to prove your faith. Once He establishes your faith He will tell Satan, “Yes, Ben has failed to live up to the demands of the law, but “in Me” He has,

1] Lived a perfect life! (perfect obedience)

2] And in me his old life died forever. (Perfect justice)

3] And Sunday morning I raised Ben’s new life with Me and that life resides in Me. (Perfect nature)

Since Ben’s faith is in Me (and I have proven that already) I can legally take him to heaven. So get lost Satan!”

Rob

[Robert]

Does that mean you can live like a devil? No! Why not? Because the principle of God’s law is being written into your mind. So with your mind you joyfully concur with God’s law, but your flesh will oppose this selfless love because it is bent on serving self. And that’s the struggle….If we are not struggling with sin then something is wrong with our faith. Hence, faith without deeds is a dead faith. I’m not talking about perfection here.

In the judgment the accuser, Satan, will point to you (Ben) and tell Christ, “Who are you kidding – this man is a sinner and he doesn’t deserve heaven. Besides, Your own law condemns Ben. You have no right to allow him in.”

Christ will then use your fruit done in love to prove your faith. Once He establishes your faith He will tell Satan, “Yes, Ben has failed to live up to the demands of the law, but “in Me” He has,

1] Lived a perfect life! (perfect obedience)

2] And in me his old life died forever. (Perfect justice)

3] And Sunday morning I raised Ben’s new life with Me and that life resides in Me. (Perfect nature)

Since Ben’s faith is in Me (and I have proven that already) I can legally take him to heaven. So get lost Satan!”

Rob

EGW says the same! I'll insert Ben's name when appropriate:

BC- PK

-TI- Prophets and Kings

-CN- 47

-CT- Joshua and the Angel

-PR- 02

-PG- 588

The tempter stands by to accuse [ben], as he stood by to resist Joshua. He points to [ben's] filthy garments, [his] defective character. He presents [ben's] weakness and folly, [his] sins of ingratitude, [his] unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored [his] Redeemer. He endeavors to affright [ben] with the thought that [his] case is hopeless, that the stain of [his] defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy [ben's] faith that [he] will yield to his temptations, and turn from [his] allegiance to God.

Satan has an accurate knowledge of the sins that he has tempted [ben] to commit, and he urges his accusations against [him], declaring, that by [his] sins [ben has] forfeited divine protection, and claiming that he [God] has the right to destroy [ben]. He [satan] pronounces [that Ben] is just as deserving as himself of exclusion from the favor of God. "[is Ben]," he says, "the one who [is] to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? [ben] profess to obey the law of God; but [has he] kept its precepts? [Has he] not been [a] lover of self more than [a] lover of God? [Has he] not placed [his] own interests above His service? [Has he] not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked [his life]. Behold [his] selfishness, [his] malice, [his] hatred of [others]. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward [ben] who [has] been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against [ben]."

But while [ben as a follower] of Christ [has] sinned, [he has] not given [him]self up to be controlled by the satanic agencies. [He has] repented of [his] sins and [has] sought the Lord in humility and contrition, and the divine Advocate pleads in [ben's] behalf. He who has been most abused by [ben's] ingratitude, who knows [his] sin and also [his] penitence, declares: "The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for [ben]. [He is] graven upon the palms of My hands [that’s the “in Christ” motif]. [ben] may have imperfections of character; [he] may have failed in [his]endeavors; but [he has] repented, and I have forgiven and accepted [him]."

[David Koot]

Just commenting generally . . . an unfortunate thing which I seem to have run across in getting to know many old-line Adventists is that they seem oppressed and always feeling like they don't measure up. From my observation, that can lead so some sad results--either, to keep on trying, but unhappy; or, to give up, and go out into the world; or, to attempt to change what they find unpleasant about God's requirements. Waht a blessing it would be if they could experience the freedom of the gospel! That is, IN CHRIST they are complete! If they have given their lives to Jesus, repented of their sins and claimed Jesus as their Substitute, then when God looks at them, He sees Jesus' perfect life. They are covered, and they are right with God, on the basis of Christ's life, sacrifice and resurrection. There is a peace and sense of relief about the experience which is almost indescribable. I sincerely hope that those who are still in bondage, still feeling like THEY must attain by their efforts, may experience the joy of freedom and wholeness in Jesus Christ. No, it is not a license to sin. But we have given our lives to Jesus, and He is our Lord and Savior. He is working in our lives, and we can trust Him to complete the work He has begun.

Dave