apologies for slavery, in Texas

[lazarus]

Why is it when a black man votes Republican he gets labeled an "Uncle Tom"?

hmmmm......let me see....

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I don't think Powell would be labeled an Uncle Tom.

Why shouldn't blacks be free to study the issues and vote as they please without being labeled by other blacks?

Quote:

I wouldn't want there to be a competition about which people experienced the worst kind of tragedy.

At least the two tragedies are in the same league.

When I go over to Mexico and do Bible studies with a guy that goes to an American factory and works 40 hours/week, comes home each night, holds his children, watches TV, eats the dinner his wife makes for him, sleeps with his wife and goes to church each Sabbath and prayer meetings on Wednesdays - I hardly consider him a "slave" in any league close to the slavery that took place in America.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

As I said Walter William's biggest fans are white people.

This is an unfair criticism. Most of Walter William's fans are white people because Walter Williams is a Republican and most Republicans are white. It is not as if white people are fans of Walter Williams because they see him as some kind of Uncle Tom.

Anyone that listens to or reads Walter Williams knows the burden he carries for black people. He hasn't sold out in any way. He simply disagrees with the black, democrat leaders. He has his PhD in economics and is a highly esteemed economist.

[lazarus]

Quote:

I don't think Powell would be labeled an Uncle Tom.

Why shouldn't blacks be free to study the issues and vote as they please without being labeled by other blacks?

You're right. Powell has been unfairly labelled an uncle tom thats why I deleted the post. I wouldn't put Rice and Powell, JC Watts in the same category as Walter Williams and Alan Keys.

[phkrause]

I agree with you on Powell. I thought that of all the people that bush had in his admin that Powell was the only one that was giving him good advice.

pkrause

[olger]

Our friend Laz said "With insensitive, ignorant, unchristian attitudes like this Blacks and whites will never get of it.

Olger you need to get over yourself! I find your attitude highly offensive and its an example of what scares me about some White Christians that I have met."

Dear Laz. Thanks for your note.

Who made this statement regarding black culture?

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.

I can't even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is, What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be...

And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads.

You can't be a doctor with that kind of [censored] coming out of your mouth. In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what?

And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics. I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12?

Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol? And where is the father? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?

What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa.

With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed.

Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.

We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.

We have to start holding each other to a higher standard. We cannot blame the white people any longer."

Bill Cosby said this, and he is absolutely right. It's up to the black community to rise above the victimhood complex. My people came over from Germany to avoid religious persecution 8-generations ago. None of us are holding on to "victimhood" status. My people were Amish/Mennonite.

Ravi Zacharius recently said, "it is up to each of us to determine whether we will rise above our environment, or sink beneath it." This is true for both you and I, AND our children.

Onwards and upwards,

olger

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

I know what you mean. While racism is not totally dead, I hate it when J. Jackson keeps playing the race card & victim tune.

Like I said before on this forum white folks hardly ever are comfortable with a black man talking about racism. They love a black man to play Uncle Tom. As I said Walter William's biggest fans are white people.

Sorry, but I'm not white. I hate racism in any form, but I'm sick and tired of people who have no other message than racism & being victims. Victim mentality paralizes the mind. Paralizes a person's creativity and initiative. Let me remind you that other minorities suffered racism as well. I am Asian. There was a time when Asians could not own property or marry a white person. For Asians, there are still glass ceilings in higher positions, even, of all places, IN THE CHURCH HIERARCHY! So, please, don't give me that Uncle Tom garbage.

Gerry

[lazarus]

Sorry, but I'm not white. I hate racism in any form, but I'm sick and tired of people who have no other message than racism & being victims. Victim mentality paralizes the mind. Paralizes a person's creativity and initiative. Let me remind you that other minorities suffered racism as well. I am Asian. There was a time when Asians could not own property or marry a white person. For Asians, there are still glass ceilings in higher positions, even, of all places, IN THE CHURCH HIERARCHY! So, please, don't give me that Uncle Tom garbage.

You don't have to apologise for not being white. I knew you were not white.

This victim mentality follishness is the mantra of those who don't want to talk about the issues. Get over it is not a response that works in most cases its not working here. Give me an instance where Jessie Jackson plays the race card or the vistim tune. This sounds like a right wing talk show!

I certainly don't feel like a victim. I have a church full of people who are creative and who have taken the initiative all their lives.

Why would you need to remids me that other minorities suffered racism? Who said anything about that?

[lazarus]

Ravi Zacharius recently said, "it is up to each of us to determine whether we will rise above our environment, or sink beneath it." This is true for both you and I, AND our children.

The same gentleman relates his personal experience as follows......

I bring this to a close with my own personal story and it is this: I was a teenager in Delhi on the verge of suicide. I had no hope; I had no meaning. I had no promise for the future, for my life. I was lying in a hospital bed when a man walked in and wanted to speak to me. My mother told him that he couldn’t speak to me—I was in intensive care, I was dying. He gave me a little New Testament and asked my mother to read it to me. Her English wasn’t very good, but in that King James language, he turned to the fourteenth chapter of John and read it to her and asked her to read it to me. And there as I laid dying, I heard the words of Jesus saying, “I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life, no one comes unto the Father except through me.” I prayed a simple prayer and I said, “Jesus, I really don’t know much about you, but if you are the way, you are the truth, and you are the life, enter into my life and change not only what I do, please change what I want to do.” I need to tell you that not a few hours before my suicide attempt my father looked me in the eye and said to me, “You’re going to make nothing of your life; you’re an embarrassment to me.” My dad was a highly placed government officer having served under Prime Minister Nehru, and then under a personal friend of Gandhi. He was powerful and he saw my life heading nowhere, and said those words that I know he himself regretted later. So I asked myself, “Why live?” No hope, no meaning, no truth, until I heard the words of Jesus, “I am the way, the truth, the life, no one comes unto the Father except through me.”

May it will take some White Christians who have got it all together to get off their backsides and go into the Ghetto and share Jesus or maybe what those blacks need is just to get over it!

[olger]

Jesus is the Answer. Please know that you and I & Bill & Ravi agree that there is a problem in the black community. I like your suggestion that the power of God alone will turn the hearts of men from darkness to light. Man's feeble attempts have failed. The ennobling power of Christ alone can lift the soul of each of us.

I agree that we need more David Wilkersons in our land. My wife & I had the priviledge of presenting a weekend series in CT, last month among a black congregation. We love them, pray for them, and counseled with them as we had time. I got to see the power of God work in their lives, and you're never the same afterwards. Thus it is that I categorically reject political attempts to cure a problem of the heart. Pomposity is the fuel of rejection.

"MY heart has no desire to stay

where doubts arise and fears dismay

Though some may dwell where these abound

My prayer, My aim is Higher Ground."

Lord lift me up and let me stand

by faith on heaven's table land

A higher plane than I have found

Lord let me stand on higher ground."

ever olger

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Sorry, but I'm not white. I hate racism in any form, but I'm sick and tired of people who have no other message than racism & being victims. Victim mentality paralizes the mind. Paralizes a person's creativity and initiative. Let me remind you that other minorities suffered racism as well. I am Asian. There was a time when Asians could not own property or marry a white person. For Asians, there are still glass ceilings in higher positions, even, of all places, IN THE CHURCH HIERARCHY! So, please, don't give me that Uncle Tom garbage.

You don't have to apologise for not being white. I knew you were not white.

Quote:

Laz, I was in no way shape or form being sorry that I am not white. That was NOT what I was being sorry for. I am quite happy with what/who I am. Thank you.

I don't have access to all his speeches, nor I am inclined to waste my time reading them. All I can tell you is, if he has ever addressed the Black Community's problems by, 1) acknowledging personal responsibility, 2) start taking actions to correct the problems, 3) stop blaming everybody else, I would like to see it. If you can find such a speech like Cosby has done, I'd be happy to take all my words and eat them.

Gerry

I certainly don't feel like a victim. I have a church full of people who are creative and who have taken the initiative all their lives.

Why would you need to remids me that other minorities suffered racism? Who said anything about that?

[lazarus]

Quote:

I don't have access to all his speeches, nor I am inclined to waste my time reading them. All I can tell you is, if he has ever addressed the Black Community's problems by, 1) acknowledging personal responsibility, 2) start taking actions to correct the problems, 3) stop blaming everybody else, I would like to see it. If you can find such a speech like Cosby has done, I'd be happy to take all my words and eat them.

LOL,

Gerry, the above is very interesting and revealing. Rev jackson has been/is more eloquent and sophisticated in the way he addresses black issues than Bill Cosby has ever been. If you took the time you would discover that.

While Bill Cosby was doing stand up Jackson was saying this kind of stuff....

"When I see men measuring their manhood by their ability to make a baby with no commitment to raise the baby, there’s a crisis in values.”

While I know that the victimizers may be responsible for the victims being down, the victims must be responsible for initiating change, determining strategy, tactics, and timing, and being disciplined enough to pull it off. No one has a greater self-interest than the victims in getting up.”

The Rainbow Coalition has mobilized 100 ministers in 50 cities to meet with juvenile court judges in that city and to reclaim 20 youth each as alternatives to unnecessary jailing. These are our children. Some just need parenting and tutoring, and they need caring adults. Better we have 100,000 youth in churches with 25,000 coaches nurturing them than 100,000 police chasing them. These are our children. It costs too much to disclaim them.

Income is how much you make; wealth is how much you keep. Accumulating wealth-as distinct from just making a big income-is the key to financial independence. Wealth is used not just to pay the rent or buy groceries, but to create opportunities, to free you to pursue your dream. Income-without wealth or a steady plan of savings and investment-is just flash without cash. There’s nothing behind it. It can be gone in an instant. If you work for a company, you could be downsized or fired and your salary would evaporate overnight.

Ask many low-income people how they plan to make half a million dollars in the course of their lifetimes and most will tell you, “I’m going to win the lottery.” So they go into their local convenience store, betting on the numbers every day, in search of a phantom. They make this the centerpiece of their financial planning. This is complete and utter folly.

We need to become investors. We’re currently underinvested in the stock market and there are historical reasons why this is so, but it must change. African American consumers currently wield $500 billion in buying power. Hispanics have $350 billion. They purchase a disproportionate share of items like soft drinks, fast food, and athletic shoes. Thus they should become shareholders of the companies they patronize-such as Nike, Coca Cola, and McDonald’s-and exert pressure as shareholders to change the current state of affairs. They could use their leverage as shareholders to see to it that blacks, browns, and women are promoted to the boards of directors of various companies and advance in the business world. As a shareholder and not a sharecropper, you’ve got access to the floor. Shareholders raise issues like, “Who are our vendors and ad agencies? Who’s on our board of directors?”

Our flag is red, white and blue, but our nation is a rainbow - red, yellow, brown, black and white - and we’re all precious in God’s sight. We must heal and expand. The Rainbow Coalition is making room for Arab Americans. They, too, know the pain and hurt of racial and religious rejection. They must not continue to be made pariahs. The Rainbow is making room for the Native American, the most exploited people of all, a people with the greatest moral claim amongst us. We support them as they seek the restoration of their ancient land and claim amongst us. The Rainbow includes disabled veterans. The disabled have their handicap revealed and their genius concealed; while the able-bodied have their genius revealed and their disability concealed. But ultimately, we must judge people by their values and their contribution. Don’t leave anybody out. The Rainbow includes lesbians and gays. No American citizen ought to be denied equal protection from the law.

America is not like a blanket - one piece of unbroken cloth, the same color, the same texture, the same size. America is more like a quilt - many patches, many pieces, many colors, many sizes, all woven and held together by a common thread. The white, the Hispanic, the black, the Arab, the Jew, the woman, the native American, the small farmer, the businessperson, the environmentalist, the peace activist, the young, the old, the lesbian, the gay and the disabled make up the American quilt.

http://www.pushexcel.org/about/welcome.html

As black preachers we preach this stuff and live this stuff.

Are you ready to take back your words?

[lazarus]

who is Bill?

[Dr. Shane]

Is this the same Jesse Jackson that by example teaches young black men to commit adultry and make babies with women other than their wives? Or is that OK as long as one is rich and able to maintain a financial commitment to their "love" children?

[lazarus]

Who said anything about his adultery being OK?

Its interesting you did not "chime in" and mention Bill Cosby's issues. Could it be that you overlooked his indiscretions because you like what he has to say.

[lazarus]

hey look.....here's what Sharpton had to say in 2003

"To think that we have come down dangerous alleys, that we have traveled through the backwoods of terror, that we have survived beatings, been shot down in cold blood doesn't give you the right to call your mama a whore," Sharpton said during a dinner for executives from minority construction companies

[Dr. Shane]

Or maybe I am not aware of his indiscretions. I do not believe Bill Cosby is an ordained minister. Certainly the standard for ordained ministers must be higher than the standard for comedians and actors.

[Kountzer]

May it will take some White Christians who have got it all together to get off their backsides and go into the Ghetto and share Jesus or maybe what those blacks need is just to get over it!

that's not going to happen, and that's why we need region conference churches.

DB

[Dr. Shane]

I disagree. When I was a student at Andrews, groups of us would go into the slums of Benton Harbor to share Jesus. We would often go out with Adventist Community Services.

My wife and I often go into the Hispanic ghettos here which are called colonias. Some of them don't even have running water in the homes. They just have a hose bib on each block and the residents hook up garden hoses to fill water reservoirs in their homes.

There are a lot of good white people and like Juan Williams said, racism isn't black people's biggest problem.

[Amelia]

Quote:

May it will take some White Christians who have got it all together to get off their backsides and go into the Ghetto and share Jesus or maybe what those blacks need is just to get over it!

Hummm yeah, if a white christian who has it all together can be found. LOL

Off topic question. How welcome are local missionaries in opposite race neighborhoods? I ask this because in all my years the JW's and Mormons who have knocked on my door (and it's only ever been those two) have all been white. I'm wondering if it's that the members interested in local reaping just happen to all be white or if whites go to white neighborhoods and black to black etc. because the Word will better received from someone who looks like yourself?

[lazarus]

Quote:

Off topic question. How welcome are local missionaries in opposite race neighborhoods? I ask this because in all my years the JW's and Mormons who have knocked on my door (and it's only ever been those two) have all been white. I'm wondering if it's that the members interested in local reaping just happen to all be white or if whites go to white neighborhoods and black to black etc. because the Word will better received from someone who looks like yourself?

I know that JW's have in the past had an active policy of trying to match those who knock doors with the people who they guess might be behind the door. I have had two white people come and then the next time ( I always invite them back) there may be one white and one black or even two black.

Never seen a black mormon missionary either, but that could be a theology thing....don't know how many black mormons exist.

BTW....no SDA's come knocking????

[Dr. Shane]

I guess I am the only one that gets targetted by SDA coulporters. I have knocked on a lot of doors myself.

[Amelia]

Quote:

BTW....no SDA's come knocking????

Laz, I hate to say this but no. Only once, a very long time ago, I had a visit from a colporter. But as for mission visits not a peep. And at the time we were living in the vicinity of two SDA churches. Even now that I am in a apt complex I can count on the Mormons at least once a month. They are always college age white men. The JW's less often. Those have been older white women. And one elderly gentleman who only speaks spanish. I still have no idea what church affiliation he has or if he is just doing this on his own.

[Kountzer]

I disagree with my own post. Far be it from me to try to criticize any one. Lots of good things have been done for blacks, and other people of color by our white brothers and sisters.

Still, all the affluent, none reg. conf churches in this metro area, are way out in the 'burbs. Most of them are far removed from public transportation, and other glaring aspects of the inner city.. pradise forbid that a person without a vehicle would try to get to one of them. Well, there's one that is one the bus line, and I have rode the bus out to it on occasion.