Closing down VOAF

[aka]

How about some of you VOAF faithfuls sending the url of this thread to Paul Lee?

He might be reading but just incase he missed this topic it would be kind to let him know what we are talking about. Especially since he is the topic subject.

Turmeric

[Nicodema]

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Knowing that all of Heavens bidding are also enabling, when it comes time to “endureth all things”, they are not working alone, but with a General that knows best at every turn. He especially is a kind of friend to not make you FEEL GOOD when you need reproving, but to FEEL BAD long enough for the reproving to be remembered and take effect.

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I would venture to say that General is wise enough to know how each of us are made, and to tailor reproof and correction even more finely-tuned than this. For some people, being made to feel bad about themselves is in itself a harbinger of abuse and a signal to turn away, tune out, and shut off. Rather than function in a narrow "one size fits all" fashion, the Holy Spirit directly tailors conviction to the needs of each individual in the manner they are best suited to receive so as to ensure a productive and successful response thereto -- that is, reception of the correction rather than rejection of it.

Here is where I have found we as Christians often err. We make the mistake of thinking the same tone and style of correction or reproof to which WE respond ought to make others respond the same way. (It doesn't.) Or we make the mistake of thinking if another does not respond to a correction or reproof we deliver, that the fault lies in their hardness of heart and not our OWN hardness of heart, that we cannot be bothered to care enough about them to deliver the message in a manner which pushes their RECEPTIVE buttons rather than their DEFENSIVE buttons.

Just some observations ... for which I'm sure I'll be crucified by those who don't want to see or who are desperate to cling to the notion that they are always "right" (or "in the right") no matter what, so long as they are using a Bible text. But that's OK ... I need this instruction just as much as anyone else, so at the very least, the Spirit of God has used it to edify and correct me.

Carry on, as ye were ...

[aka]

"...wet sloppy kisses floating around these forums"

Ed... that was ever so descriptive of us here

A dog full of love for it's owner gets drooling with anticipation of hearing the car come in the drive and the door opening so he as loving dog can jump up on his beloved owner and give such drooling sloppy kissing that only loving dogs really know about

That would be such an enhancement here online to be so loving one another in the command as our Jesus gave it that we get full of happy anticipation just logging on in the hope of interacting with others we love so much in the Lord. I could just droooooool thinking about it.

No wonder my kisses get a bit wet and sloppy to some of you all

Poor dear Jesus... the fear accompaning the spirit of betraying our Lord produced in Judas a very dry perfuntionary kiss in the Garden of Gethsamene.

Not to be emulated by any of us.

Best be house dogs waiting in anticipation of our Master's return.

Turmeric

[LifeHiscost]

ACTUAL VERSE, KJV

[:"red"]"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." [/]Phil 4:8

Having read a number of your posts, Ed, and knowing our Father's primary purpose in sending His Son to this earth was not to condemn His erring children, I'm having difficulty finding in your focus, His plan of salvation.

On the other hand He does say He makes some vessels to honor and some to dishonor.

[:"red"]"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver." [/]Prov 25:11 KJV

Do you think that is a goal worthy of striving for?

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Yes that is so true!!! Even a “reformer” is not “excluded” from this heaven sent instruction,

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Lift Jesus up!!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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ACTUAL VERSE, KJV

[:"red"]"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." [/]Phil 4:8

Having read a number of your posts, Ed, and knowing our Father's primary purpose in sending His Son to this earth was not to condemn His erring children, I'm having difficulty finding in your focus, His plan of salvation.

On the other hand He does say He makes some vessels to honor and some to dishonor.

[:"red"]"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver." [/]Prov 25:11 KJV

Do you think that is a goal worthy of striving for?

Quote:

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Yes that is so true!!! Even a “reformer” is not “excluded” from this heaven sent instruction,

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Lift Jesus up!!

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To those in authority the question might be raised, 'What has this to do with closing down VOAF?' May I suggest someone might have asked Jesus the same question about this earth, when plans were being formulated for its eventual redemption.

Every time someone disputes the plan of salvation as revealed in His Word, as revealed to His servants, the opportunity is provided to reply with a [:"red"]"Thus saith the Lord." [/]

There will always be those ready to attack when the Spirit speaks, but if Jesus chose to shut down this earth as soon as it appeared to be at its worst, we probably would never have had the opportunity to receive the Gospel of grace ourselves.

[:"red"]"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward; not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." [/]2 Pet 3:9

[:"red"]"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." [/]John 10:27

Lift Jesus up!!

[Guest]

Life said this. "There will always be those ready to attack when the Spirit speaks"

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What you consider an "attack" could very well be an act of love on a level you have yet to reach.

[LifeHiscost]

*

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Life said this. "There will always be those ready to attack when the Spirit speaks"

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**What you consider an "attack" could very well be an act of love on a level you have yet to reach.

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Re: * Still valid despite **.

condescension: 1.voluntary descent from one's rank or dignity in relations with an inferior. 2.patronizing attitude or behavior

My personal commentary is that God alone rightfully has that prerogative.

[:"red"]"And so in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action should be of men, it will be over-thrown;

but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you you may be found fighting against God." [/] Acts 5:38,39

Lift Jesus up!!

[aka]

[:"red"]VOAF CLOSED DOWN A FEW DAYS AGO [/]

Waiting in lurking mode, I had so hoped some of you at ClubAdventist would be so kind to give words of acknowledgment. Just some comforting words of compassion to those not able to enter their familiar cyber haunt.

No.... I saw no postings to that effect.

So out of soldarity for my fellow SDA church members belonging to VOAF, I will give a bit of eulogy.

My admiration and respect is sincere for Paul Lee who took on the administration aspect of VOAF. He suffered surely from the dissidents causing disharmony and mental anguish to other members. Now he has his peace and rest from the responsibility. Although he must have derided some fun or advantages by some of the very good talked out topics that brought light on important subjects.

My true condolences to you all who have had a home-type of feeling participating daily in the ups and downs of VOAF.

The decision to close the door permanently has finally been decided.

You’ll feel the hollow feeling of having "lost" for some period of time.

Life goes on and the winner is the overcomer.

These guys (some have stopped writing for months now) I have respect for and am so very glad to call them my brothers in the Lord because some of what they testified to in their posts was a real source of blessing to my soul…..

RandyS, Redfog, Ron Lambert, Adventbeliever, Volz, GeorgePhillips, Meagain, Darius, TomWetmore, EdWhite, Jasd, Denise Lee, DanPabon, KevinH, lawdogGaryK, PaulB, CharlesMargino,

Now the gals who wrote on VOAF I want to honor because of the glowing repect I have for them as sisters in the Lord. Those ones extra special to me who gave much me in fine christian woman example wrote staunchly for their beliefs, and showed courage to publicly print their convictions despite the possible flak from the guys. The list is not complete, but such ones are : DedicationUlrike, Anitavj, TamiStrand, Claudia, CathyS, RosangelaLira, Lauralea, JeanM, and a few others.

There are a whole lot of others I could name, but know nothing much of them because I read very selectively about only twice a week at VOAF the first three years. Come then the fourth year I was lurking more but never felt at ease to post anything. Names became a bit more familiar. It was a ‘tough guys’ hangout. Sort of like what happens when the lads meet after work at the local pub for a bier. Gals have only a small right to join in and then get a bit ignored when they pipe up.

[aka]

(the following is a 3 year old topic thread I saved to my files from VOAF written by PaulL)......

[:"red"] Purpose of VOAF [/]

My purpose in establishing VAOF was/is to provide an opportunity for healthy, blessed, helpful and prayerful exchange for those respecting the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. To create an internet type Sabbath School atmosphere of learning; and provide opportunities for praise, thankfulness, personal testimonies, effective evangelism, how to reach the secular society to Christ, how to help the poor, unity - learn to get along here on earth -, etc..

[:"red"]The Non-Purpose of VOAF [/]

Purpose of VOAF was not to provide opportunity for different agendas, bash SDA church, its leaders, it's beliefs or to sway people from the church.

It appears that VOAF has attracted more extremists, agendaers, cults and some emotionally disturbed people who often seem to dominate the volume of posting.

VOAF is not a free-for-all shoot-your-mouth-off forum. Controversy is not the purpose of VOAF - even though it may attract attention. Sometimes disagreement on issues will happen but it should be expressed in kindness, in an objective manner, and with the object of finding Gods truth and not with the purpose to look like a debate winner and slander others.

If the purpose of VOAF cannot be accomplished then VOAF will be closed. Better that it is closed than the damage that some individuals are desiring on the SDA faith with their posts are achieved.

03.03.01 Paul Lee

[:"red"]Observed Problems:[/]

In the prior weeks or months a number of violation of VOAF rules and spirit of the rules and activity that is contrary to the purpose of VOAF has come to my attention.

I have seen continual:

- name calling and personal attacks.

- verbal bickering and fighting

- frequent promotion of non-SDA theology or ideologies: Evolution, Mysticism, other SDA offshoot sects.

-attacks on EGW - initially blatantly, but later "politely" chipping away at her credibility. What a way to dedicate a life - bashing a dead lady who did you no harm? Believing in EGW as a prophet is not a requirement for VAOF membership, but if you do not, then leaving her alone is. You are permitted to bring up a honest question if you do not understand something about her and then observe the responses of those who believe in her appointment. But after that you are not to work at discrediting her or the SDA church prophetic gift claim on VOAF.

- attacks on SDA church or leadership (derogatory implicit remarks like "Why do 'Adventists'.... blah blah ...")

Most of such negative individuals are good at criticizing but not at providing real solutions. If they were in charge things would likely be worse.

- slandering or accusing an individual for something that has not gone to court of law. VOAF is not to be judge and jury

- even unkind thoughts after conviction

- don't throw stones on sinners.

-absence of positive posts: few in between or seldom seen positive topic discussions like: Praise, thankfulness, personal testimonies, effective evangelism, how to reach the secular society to Christ, how to help the poor, etc, etc.

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, UNTHANKFUL, unholy, ... trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, ... heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness,... Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Tim. 3:1-7

I believe that there are a number of individuals who are trying to contribute positively to VOAF but they spend too much time "keeping peace", "putting out the fires"; and fending off individuals dedicated to attacking the SDA church, EGW, fundamental beliefs, etc.

[:"red"]Possible solutions to the problem[/]

1) Close down VOAF. If the original purpose of VOAF is not achieved then it will be closed down.

2) Seriously crack down on offenders.

The problem with that is that a) it is going to be an imperfect attempt perfect fairness in implementation will not exist - just like "police": they catch some and miss greater offenders.

3) I and moderators are not your personal psychologist and furthermore do not even have time to do things exactly as they should be.

We will give this second option a try and if it does not work VOAF will be closed down.

[:"red"]Advance Warnings [/]

Due to time restraints, imperfection problems on my part and that of moderators, you may not get an advance email warning when your post is deleted or edited or posting privileges suspended or revoked. To cut down on my time and "automate" the process, if your posting privilege is suspended the first or second time, you should email me AFTER 2 WEEKS and request reinstatement of posting indicating that you will abide by the rules. The third time - or if your activity is serious - you may loose your posting privileges (the "boot").

Please save your time screaming "censorship", "Gestapo" or "Communist". Anyone has perfect freedom to express themselves on other forums (listed on front page) according to their rules. If you like none of them, establish your own according to your rules. Please don't think that any my action on you is personal. I am too busy to get personal. In fact, if anything, I am "impersonal".

I will wait a little to give members to adjust to the "new" atmosphere before cracking down too quickly.

03.03.01

[:"red"]Objective thread titles: [/]

From now on, - especially in the Bible forum - posters are to use objective thread titles, which simply state the topic/purpose they want considered. No nebulous, or stereotyped titles "Why Adventists are so rotten ... blah ... blah" No sensational or implicitly accusing titles like "Forum member john doe exposed....." The name of the person you disagree with generally should not appear in the title. You can simply indicate the objective subject you want discussed - "Do angels really have wings...." instead of "john doe's ridiculous claim that angels have wings...."

Threads with sensational or personally provocative titles may simply be deleted without warnings or apologies and the "perpetrator" may even loose posting privileges.

(Following are saved by me quotes of PaulL)…

Darwin and Bill, ---I suggest you lower the adrenalin level and discuss things more objectively without implied name calling and pigenholing people. I'm still "trigger happy". Paul Lee

Some of the name calling, insults, and attacks on each other I have never seen in real life in church or meetings. It seems that the forum releases some hidden gremlins inside of people to get at each other. It is understood that most people are well behaved at VOAF but a greater than in real life percentage have the "forum rage". Wonder why that is?

PaulL

[Guest]

Never been there..but if any of the negativity is related to NFDMTTS or cell phones...

KEEP IT COMING!

[Stan]

At the ministries convention last week I was asked by someone in the communication department which other forum I would recommend and I responded immediately VOAF.

I am so thankful for the other admins and all the moderators on here to help make this work, Without them we would close as well.

Some of the same people who took down the original Church forum, took down VOAF.

Paul did a good job, and I do not blame him for not wanting to fight the battle of the bullies, the flamers and the finances any more, one has to wonder if their are enought reward cookies sometimes.

I would invite Paul here to moderator any forum, or to start a new one, of his choosing anytime.

[Gregory Matthews]

I will second the idea that Paul is to be commended for the work that he did on VOAF. As I read over some of his ideas as to the purposes of the forum, I agree with many.

I participated in VOAF for quite a while, but I have not done so for about two years.

I note that he mentions that financial issues were one of the reasons for closing the forum. That is a problem that all of these so-called SDA forums face.

During the time of my participation in VOAF, I came to the conclusion that one of its faults was that, in my opinion, it was to much of a one-person operation as far as standards, policies, etc. I say this not to be negative, but as a lesson for the rest of us to consider.

At the same time, I do not beleive that any of the other forums have reached perfection. What is perfection? In application, I do not have the anwer.

In my perspective, considering that none are perfect, I feel that CA has probably done best in attempting to reach a general Internet audience. That is moderated my a feeling that the Internet audience is probably not a typical cross-section of Adventist society. If that is true, it should be remembered as we consider and evaulate CA.

I also think that MSDAOL has done well in reaching one section of Adventist society. Probably it has done the best in reaching that secion. But, no, I do not consider it to be perfect either. In my opinion, it reaches a section in which CA has not been successful. But, I beleive that CA reaches a section of Adventism that MSDAOL is not reaching.

I can probablly say the same about all other so-called SDA forums. Several seem to have carved out a section of Adventism that they reach. But, they do not go beyond those boundries. They seem to demonstrate the truth of the statement that one can not be all things to all people. Perhaps, we should not expect to be.