What is a friend?

[cricket]

In another forum I was requested to share this with you here. And so, here goes:

What is a friend?

A friend is a person that you can count on in times of trouble. Someone who shares your joys, your sorrows, your prayers and your life.

When I wrote that a friend is someone you can call without rehearsing your lines, I wrote a lot of stuff in-between-the-lines.

Sure, there are people you can call at any time of day or night. A pastor, a deacon, and a doctor are of this sort. This is their job and it is what they are paid for, or it is what they expect when they volunteer for the position.

A friend is someone you can call and will listen with an open heart and is ready to respond with a moment's notice.

As Christians, we should be friends with everyone. Through our human nature, however, we are not cut out to be friends of everyone.

And so, God puts us in touch with those that our ministry of frienship suits the most. No man is an island, so it has been said. We all need friends.

Friends keep you company; they keep you from going insane!

I've heard it said that there must be at least seven friendships formed in the church setting for a member to wish to return. One is a great start, but seven would be awesome!

Let me say also that a friend is someone you look forward to seeing--not someone you try to avoid.

And so now I ask you, what is a friend?

[Guest]

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Sure, there are people you can call at any time of day or night. A pastor, a deacon, and a doctor are of this sort. This is their job and it is what they are paid for, or it is what they expect when they volunteer for the position.

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Good luck in getting to 7

[cricket]

I'm amazed that you've said this. I can count quickly at least seven SDA members that I call friends of this nature. People who would drop everything if I need it, and, indeed, who have.

I'm curious to know of others' experiences. When you seriously stop to think about who your true friends are, are you able to count on less than 7, 7, or more than 7?

[Nicodema]

I have no one that fits all of that criteria. There is one fellow who has told me I can call him anytime, etc. but although I know he means well and his heart is in the right place, and he really is a very sweet person in so many ways, he has this sort of rough edge to his personality which is just, unfortunately, the very LAST thing I need to be around when I'm having a raw, vulnerable moment and needing to talk. It's not any fault in him, it's just that his style isn't suited to my needs. Which is a shame because he really is a sweet person and I really do appreciate that he has tried to be "available" to me emotionally and spiritually as a friend.

I take full responsibility for the fact that I don't have people in my life who fit all this criteria of open availability to be there for me day or night, etc. There are very few who could really do this successfully with me because my emotional and social needs vary so widely and are so chaotic it's practically like asking someone to be as forbearing as Christ Himself, twice as nurturing/sensitive and three times as clever to keep up.

[cricket]

Without so much as even a whispering of sarcasm: I can't wait to meet you!

[Nicodema]

Heheheheh, hey Chrys, your post # for this post was 666.

666 the number of the BEAST! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! its a conspiracy

[Bravus]

Another red letter day,

So the pound has dropped and the children are creating,

The other half ran away,

Taking all the cash and leaving you with the lumber,

Got a pain in the chest,

Doctors on strike what you need is a rest.

It's not easy love, but you've got friends you can trust,

Friends will be friends,

When you're in need of love they give you care and attention,

Friends will be friends,

When you're through with life and all hope is lost,

Hold out your hand cos friends will be friends right till the end.

Now it's a beautiful day,

The postman delivered a letter from your lover,

Only a phone call away,

You tried to track him down but somebody stole his number,

As a matter of fact,

You're getting used to life without him in your way.

It's so easy now, cos you got friends you can trust,

Friends will be friends,

When you're in need of love they give you care and attention,

Friends will be friends,

When you're through with life and all hope is lost,

Hold out your hand cos friends will be friends right till the end.

It's so easy now, cos you got friends you can trust,

Friends will be friends,

When you're in need of love they give you care and attention,

Friends will be friends,

When you're through with life and all hope is lost,

Hold out your hand cos friends will be friends right till the end.

-Queen

[aka]

[:"blue"]Friend[/]

One of the most holiest of words in my vocabulary treasure chest.

I use a look of dignity for that precious word when glancing at it’s presence.

It’s facets come to my attention.

I can just bearly clothe them in proper wordage.

However, I’ll try nonetheless…..

Within the state of being a ‘true’ friend there is :

1. Common bonds

2. Faithfulness

3. Goodwill when approaching

4. Acceptance

5. Long-termed togetherness

6. Loyalty in battle

7. Personal affectionate regard

8. Assistance offered in need

9. Supporter of one’s plans

10. Confidant for secrets

11. Befriender in emergencies

12. An ally when under attack

13. Comfortable when sharing company

14. Intimacy without fear

15. Shares trust

16. Willing to sacrifice

Friendship may be offered, but the test of being a friend has not taken place until a period of time in intercourse dealings have shown whether the person qualifies for being a friend. Only time will tell. Labeling someone else as "friend" to others is often at times motivated by a need to appear appealing in the eyes of those others. To say something about ‘my friend, or my friends’ gives the group addressed the illusion one is having a backup when things go wrong. In reality the flippant use of the word, when it has no real substance, is delusionary boasting.

Acquaintances are not Friends.

They are a separate group altogether.

Acquaintances are work-comrades, neighbors, shop keepers, professional people we repeatedly do business with, such ones are known to us, but are not friends. Mostly they tend to be fair-weather companions or contacts for utilitarian purposes. Being acquainted with someone does not make them a friend.

There are different level in degrees of quality with friendship.

The deepest level of relationship personally in my opinion is when all 16 in my above list are present.

A comrade is an acquaintance sharing in one’s activities like in some secular club activities, travel group experience, work-place fellow worker or even the buddies we meet regulary online. Just ‘contact’ persons.

Cyberspace is soooo deceptive in giving the illusion one is having friends galor. The reality of life is the condition of quality of length, width, depth of not only my mind but my physical world and how I am experiencing events in it’s dimensions. Internet comrades can't truly befriend me in my private scope of existance rightly when they are aren't physically seeing my enviroment,my struggles in challenges, the people who influence my life, or my bodily habits and sufferings. Flesh and blood human in full scope needs to be there in my home, church, or hospital stay to speak and pray with me. To listen to me and give me advice or comfort. Cyberspace limitations denies a comrade the right to correctly size up my personal situation because they are really not ‘there’ in my enviroment. My total being of expression through my body with voice, touch, sight and mood expression of my body language is totally missing so the online comrade is just seeing me ‘blindly’ according to made up conclusions by my printed impressions on-screen.

I have handfuls of online comrades who have over the years brought out love and sympathy in my heart for them continually. There are names of posters that when they appear I rejoice in my heart with a flair of happiness. However, all is mental. Not the substance of the true. Humanly speaking… Internet interaction is a bit surreal like in some fantasy of mind alluding to a touch of reality but not quite cutting it to the quick of real reality.

The Old Testament typology of the Christ coming was a veil, a shadow. Jesus' life revealed to us in true type of those OT shadows gives us an far better grasp of God and His plan of salvation for us. When we are translated to arrive into Heaven above the reality of all realities will finally take place.

A true friend lives with me in my intimate sphere.

Online talk does not meet the bill of true friendship when relegated to public posting in group dynamic of Forum talking. There must be steps taken to invade the private areas of the person on deeper levels of personal two on two exchange. Emails help draw closer. Phone calls are the next step. The final sealing is the test of a visit to the person's home for a holiday stay of a week or more. If true friendship of the good quality is there then nothing will break the continuance of online posting between the two or emailing back and forth after the end of the shared vacation.

Turmeric

[cricket]

Friend, you are warned!! Muhahaha!!! (Now, where is that little devil icon-thingy???)

[cricket]

Jesus was a friend to all. Do we offer the same to everyone we meet? I suggest we should.

[K]

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[:"blue"] Chrys

A friend is a person that you can count on in times of trouble. Someone who shares your joys, your sorrows, your prayers and your life[/].

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This is really true. I think the creator knew we needed that bond with others

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[:"blue"] Nicodema

I have no one that fits all of that criteria.[/]

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I think you are missing many joys by not letting someone into your world.

God has given me many good friends. I thank Him each day for those precious souls.

I think the Value Genesis Study gave a some statics that said that a new adventist must have 1 or 2 friends in the church. If there isn't a connection "friendship", people will not stay in our church,and we have failed if we have not reached out to these people as well as the many others in our church.

[Bravus]

One more criterion for Turmeric's list, I think:

A friend will thoughtfully, tactfully, carefully but clearly warn me when I'm doing something dangerous to my physical, mental or spiritual health. S/he will still love me, still spend time with me, but won't let me kill or damn myself without saying something.

Edit: And of course, I accept my friends' imperfections (including not meeting all 16+1 criteria!) as I hope they'll accept mine.

Edit2: I have at least 7 good friends, but perhaps half or less are SDA.

[Nicodema]

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[:"blue"] Nicodema

I have no one that fits all of that criteria.[/]

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I think you are missing many joys by not letting someone into your world.

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Oh, it's not a matter of not "letting". People in general just typically are not willing to get or interested in getting that close to me. At a cursory glance and first reading I tend to go along with much of what Turmeric posted -- there are various stages of passing through from acquaintance to friendship, even though these might take various different forms from what she outlined specifically according to the parties involved in the process. While it is a two-way street, this process, and while I am probably guilty of occasionally being the one to assess that someone else isn't going to "make it" with me, what I meant when I said I take 'full responsibility' was something else altogether. It was more along the lines that I don't get any further than a certain place with other people because they don't let me "in", not the other way around, and that I was willing to take responsibility for that fact because who else's fault could it be? Basically no matter how "good" I try to be they eventually see something that is a dead giveaway that I'm not one of them. This may suggest various things to various people but overall it's kind of an instinctual signal to them not to bother with me because I'm more trouble than I'm worth -- and they are probably right.

On the other hand those that approach me with warmth and connectivity generally find that I respond a lot differently than those who don't. And as far as Bravus' post adding to Turmeric's list, well, those who are willing to take up something "difficult" with me in a way that shows me they care more about my welfare than about their comfort zone or convenience, and know how to treat me like a peer and equal, respecting my dignity, individuality and intelligence, get past the biggest barrier with me anyway. But if they come at me in a way that makes me feel turned against or threatened with abandonment for having failed their expectations, that's usually where things end, because that sends me the signal that I cannot trust them.

Most people don't have the time or energy required to befriend someone like me. So when I said I take responsibility I meant in the sense of being the party at fault for being difficult to know -- but I never meant to suggest that I don't let people in. Geez, compared to how often I get "let in" with others, I'm a veritable hotbed of trusting naivete.

[Nicodema]

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Edit2: I have at least 7 good friends, but perhaps half or less are SDA.

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I find it is really hard to get close to other SDAs if you, unlike them, are not born & raised that way. There's this sort of artificial arms-length place I'll call "church buddy" that you can get to, but you won't be telephoned, invited over, or in any other way made a partaker of their REAL lives outside the general social milieu of the church. And I'm talking about the ones that you'd want to know better because they seem so great to get to know at church, cordial, caring, down to earth, easy to talk with -- but it never seems to go any further, you don't actually partake of their lives.

I'm kind of handicapped in one respect too, in that I cannot initiate certain things with others at church due to my living conditions. I share a house with someone else who is not of my faith and who is an even more private and reclusive person than myself and doesn't like for me to have people over, so I can't invite people over to mine. (I can't even set up my environment to support the goal of making a Christian atmosphere. It's like trying to diet when you live with someone who buys all your favorite "bad" foods and constantly offers them to you, only worse.)

(Only I haven't been to church for over a month now because I won't go when I'm like this -- like I have been for several weeks I mean -- I won't be a hypocrite or pretender and I won't taint the House of God with my abominations and uncleanness.)

Oh one more point, while I agree with a lot of Turmeric's list and process outline, the specifics can vary, I also agree with Bravus about there being room for tolerance and if necessary forgiveness when friends don't perfectly live up to everything, and I strongly disagree that online contact is as limited or essentially empty as Turmeric suggests. I think it is what you make of it and with it, and can be extremely rich a medium for building friendships with others, again, depending on what the parties involved make of it and how they use it. I have been able to get very deep with people in realtime chat and you know, someone doesn't spend two hours "talking" with you on the 'net unless they are for real about getting to know you. It is one step removed from visiting on the phone but it's no less time-investing or mentally/emotionally exploring of one another than that. Just my opinion. I do agree that online contact is not a sufficient substitute for in-person contact.

[Gail]

Well, there is an interesting point

What hinders friendships from forming and developing?

N has touched on some reasons why, in analysing herself. As we all look at our own lives, it is true that there are some people that we find we cannot bond with, for whatever reason.

[Naomi]

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(Only I haven't been to church for over a month now because I won't go when I'm like this -- like I have been for several weeks I mean -- I won't be a hypocrite or pretender and I won't taint the House of God with my abominations and uncleanness.)

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I can relate to how you are feeling. However, when we feel as you described is when we need our Church homes the most. Church is a hospital for sinners. No one there is without sin. As we have been taught," .. all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." There are times when the very last place I wanted to go was to Church. When I forced myself to paste a smile on my face and go, I left feeling much better.

Give the people in your Church home a little time to come to know and love you. Sometimes as SDA's we appear withdrawn, but the old saying goes, "to have a friend, you have to be a friend." Also, it takes time to develop the real trusting kind of friendship. I realize how difficult it is 'put yourself out there.' but the potential rewards are great.

If you can't invite someone to your home, how about inviting someone that you would like to know better to a lunch in the park or to view something at a local event?

It's difficult, but we all need friends. Friends who understand the laws of God and man as do we. Without them life can be extremely lonely and difficult. I praise God each day for my friends .... yes, even those who sometimes make observations that I choose to ignore.

[Gail]

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I find it is really hard to get close to other SDAs if you, unlike them, are not born & raised that way. There's this sort of artificial arms-length place I'll call "church buddy" that you can get to, but you won't be telephoned, invited over, or in any other way made a partaker of their REAL lives outside the general social milieu of the church. And I'm talking about the ones that you'd want to know better because they seem so great to get to know at church, cordial, caring, down to earth, easy to talk with -- but it never seems to go any further, you don't actually partake of their lives.

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That's okay- there are many people in the church that I don't bond with, either. But there are some that I do

I think I can count 7 "best friends" who are not online friends, and a couple more that are online. 3 are Adventist, a couple belong to another Christian denomination, 1 is a Christian in her heart and 1 is agnostic or something. But what we have in common is that we have tolerance for each other that allows for differences in philosophy and personal quirks.

They all have stuff that the general public doesn't see. I think the intimacy aspect is important, and trust

[Gail]

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There are times when the very last place I wanted to go was to Church. When I forced myself to paste a smile on my face and go, I left feeling much better.

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Relating Naomi's words to my own experience, I cannot count the times that this has proved true. Some little kid will peek over the pew or the pastor will say some word of ministry that will seem like it was directed at me. I view these blessings as coming from God Himself, as no one else knows how they touched my heart that day

I find that when I go to church, the people are all a big blur, one big mass. But it is the Lord who will provide some little special blessing which remains with me. This week it was a photo that one of my daughter's friends gave me of himself and Rikki. He was at church with his several face piercings (don't know if anyone told him to take them out!) and it was just a joy that he would do this for me. It was a joy just to see him at church at all

I say, Hang in there. God does touch through other people, and when they fail Him, He touches us through other means <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[LynnDel]

Friendship

Oh, the comfort, the inexpressible comfort,

Of feeling safe with a person,

Having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words,

But pouring them all right out, just as they are,

The chaff and grain together,

Certain that a faithful hand will take and sift them,

Keep what's worth keeping,

And with a breath of kindness,

Blow the rest away.

George Eliot

[Nicodema]

LynnDel, thanks for posting that bit of free verse by George Eliot. It is one of my favorites on the subject and it's been so long since I had a chance to read it again.

As for the "going to church when you feel sinful" subthread -- well, there's a number of things I could say in response but it is a lot more complicated for me and I don't want to get in everyone else's way by inserting a sour and complicating note to a pretty melody everyone else is enjoying. I wish it were that easy but for me it's not -- I'll leave it at that ... with a smile of course so you all won't hate me for even saying that much.

[aka]

There are friendships we are having with certain persons that conceals elements of danger we never know about until the moment of testing comes. We have invested trust, affection and personal data into certain ones but when constellations of events take place treachery comes to the forefront. We are dealt a painful blow by our own so-called “friend”. Even a soul-mate can entice us into a tempting situation the results of would be sin in the eyes of Jesus. Even Jesus spoke out about the end-time persecution of certain (not all) parents, brethren, kinsfolk and friends betraying us when the NewWorldOrder is set up to support Sunday laws.

Do you remember how in Luke 23 the two arch-rivals Pilate and Herod got a pact of friendship going after the fact that each played politically correct for the purpose of only acknowledging Caesar as King and not Jesus ? The pressure of the crowd using their vote (democratic?) of free speech to declare John 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

Friendship that is not deeply genuine but selfish is well known. Poor people are ignored, dispised or rejected but rich people have many friends because of their wealth and how certain ones can sponge off of them or have certain advantages of being connected to the rich person. Every man is a friend to him that giveth gifts, right? It is rare to find a lower class person having a genuine friendship with an upper class in wealth person because of the hidden hassles of inequality involved.

Yes, we need to be careful in what we mean when we say so-and-so is our friend. We need to weigh up the strengths of the above list of 16+points up above to see how strong the disposition capacity of carrying unpleasantries is.

Some trials in a mutal friendship will either make or break it.

Turmeric

[LifeHiscost]

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Yes, we need to be careful in what we mean when we say so-and-so is our friend. We need to weigh up the strengths of the above list of 16+points up above to see how strong the disposition capacity of carrying unpleasantries is.

Some trials in a mutal friendship will either make or break it.Turmeric

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[:"red"]"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." [/]John 15:13

[:"red"]"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

[/]Rom 5:8

What I had wished to get back to you about, after reading over the post I made on another thread, was the fact there were no implications or insinuations. Just a testimony about how God had dealt with me when I needed some correction. This is meant also to be only personal testimony, allowing any to interpret it as they might choose. Our Father is capable of sorting out any hidden agendas if it is seen to be necessary.

[:"red"]"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." [/]Rev 12:11

[:"red"]"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." [/]2 Tim 3:12

I know we can be friends as enabled by the Holy Spirit.

Blessings!

Lift Jesus up!!

[aka]

Are you implying, Br. Lhc, that you believe persons can become friends of the genuine sort just by internet posting of public messages in a Forum?

I had forgotten the live Chat forums that gives a fast pace in communication and allows a quicker exposure to the thought life of others. It seems to speed up the process and after Nico said she stayed two hours with one chatter online she seemed convinced, if I understood rightly, that she could determine the rightness of labeling that chatter as a friend.

Now don't let me negatively influence your own opinion about what constitutes a real friend in your internet experience for you. I am still wary and holding doubt that a true friend or even a friend of lesser relationship depth can be had in Cyberspace ALONE.

...however, after saying that I might pause and even contradict myself when I say with the influence of the Holy Spirit bonding two likeminded Christians in postings or chat-mode when using internet service there might be a possibility.

Turmeric

[cricket]

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...however, after saying that I might pause and even contradict myself when I say with the influence of the Holy Spirit bonding two likeminded Christians in postings or chat-mode when using internet service there might be a possibility.

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Would it be possible for the Holy Spirit to bond two differently-minded people (as opposed to likeminded Christians) in postings or chat-mode when using the Internet service? Just a question.

[Bravus]

I think Turmeric is applying the standards of face-to-face friendships to online friendships, which is fair enough, but may be a little misleading. Let me give an analogy: I work with teachers who are teaching students in distance education situations. The teachers either teach web-based courses or by videoconference. Both of those kinds of teaching are qualitatively different compared to face-to-face teaching, and it could be argued that in some ways they're both inferior to it. But that's not so useful - real teaching and real learning still need to occur in these virtual classrooms! So I try to get the teachers to see *what* is different about teaching in these ways, and to think about how they can make their distance teaching better (and that may not mean making it more like their face-to-face teaching).

So, I think there is such a thing as an online friendship, but it's a qualitatively different thing compared to face-to-face friendship. I think it still has value, and certainly my online friends include a range of ages, nationalities and backgrounds that I'd probably never become friends with face to face, simply because all those markers of age, class etc. get in the way face to face, but are obscured on the net (unless we choose to reveal them, as I've done now in this forum).

So, in a nutshell, I believe there are such things as online friends, but they're quite different from friends we have in Real Life ™ and we give and get different things with them.