David Koot Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 The purpose of this thread is to focus on the book of Leviticus. It is an oft-overlooked book, considered by some to be irrelevant to the Christian walk today. Is it, or isn't it? In this study, we will seek to determine the following: 1) Is Leviticus primarily concerned with the ceremonial law? 2) How do the ceremonial law and the moral law interrelate in Leviticus? 3) What is the post-resurrection meaning and significance of Leviticus ch. 11--particularly in light of the teachings of Peter and Paul, as well as Jesus' words declaring "all foods clean"? Any thoughts? Where should we begin? Dave Quote
David Koot Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 I should like to offer a brief survey of all the occurrences of the word "unclean" in the book of Leviticus. We consider here the English word. Several Hebrew words are rendered "unclean," each with different shades of meaning. But for now, let's start with English. There are 82 occurrences of "unclean" in Leviticus. I would like to survey each of them. We begin as follows: Le 5:2 Someone touching the carcass of an unclean animal becomes unclean. Le 7:19 Clean meat that touches something unclean shall not be eaten, but burned. Le 7:21 Someone touching the uncleanness of man, or an abominable unclean thing Le 10:10 distinguish between clean and unclean Le 11:4 Unclean categories of animals described Le 11:5 Unclean animals described Le 11:6 Unclean animals described Le 11:7 Unclean animals described Le 11:24 Whoever touches the carcass of an unclean animal shall be unclean until evening Le 11:25 Whoever bears of the carcass of an unclean animal shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until evening Le 11:26 Carcasses of unclean animals, and touching them renders a person unclean Le 11:27 Categories of unclean animals described, and those who touch their carcasses shall be unclean until even. Le 11:28 Someone bearing the carcass of an unclean animal shall wash his clothes and be unclean until even Le 11:29 Unclean creatures described Le 11:31 Unclean creatures described, and whoever touches their carcases shall be unclean Le 11:32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed. Le 11:33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it. Le 11:34 Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean. Le 11:35 And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean, and shall be unclean unto you. Le 11:36 Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean. Le 11:38 But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you. Le 11:39 And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even. Le 11:40 And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even. Le 11:43 ¶ Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. Le 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten." I would like to stop there for tonight. So far, scanning the several occurrences, a pattern comes to view. In quite a number of cases, health and sanitation issues appear. For example, it is not touching the live critter that makes a person unclean, but the dead carcass--which is highly toxic. Any cooking or eating utensil coming in contact with such a dead carcass must be purified with water--except for earthenware, which could not be purified except (we now know) by super-heated steam under pressure, which they did not have access to at the time.) Notice, also, that RUNNING water coming in contact with the septic carcass is NOT unclean, except for that portion which actually makes contact. Etc. In the next few days, I should like to continue the survey of the occurrences of "unclean" in Leviticus. Dave Quote
Members phkrause Posted July 6, 2007 Members Posted July 6, 2007 I think your reference to health and sanitation make alot of sense. pkrause Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
David Koot Posted July 7, 2007 Author Posted July 7, 2007 I should like to continue the survey of the occurrences of 'unclean' in Leviticus. Continuing with ch. 12: Le 12:2 a woman who gives birth is unclean during the time "of her infirmity" Le 12:5 a woman who gives birth to a girl baby is unclean for a longer time Le 13:3 a leper is unclean Le 13:8 a leper is unclean Le 13:11 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:14 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:15 a leper is unclean Le 13:20 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:22 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:25 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:27 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:30 uncleanness in regard to a type of leprosy Le 13:36 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:44 a leper is unclean Le 13:45 the leper shall cry, 'unclean' Le 13:46 a leper is unclean so long as he is a leper Le 13:51 'leprosy' in a garment or skin Le 13:55 if after washing for 7 days, an affected garment or skin still appears 'leprous,' it is unclean and is to be burned Le 13:59 'leprosy' in a garment or skin: unclean vs. clean Reviewing these occurrences, it appears that the designation as 'unclean' arises in most cases out of a determination that there is leprosy, either on the person or in a garment, etc. Leprosy is contagious. The leper was to separate himself from others. The 'leprous' garment was to be burned. Once again, in most caes the basis for being called 'unclean' appears to be health, sanitation and safety. I notice words indicating causation: a causal relationship between the unhealthy/unsafe condition and the designation as 'unclean.' Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 7, 2007 Moderators Posted July 7, 2007 I should like to continue the survey of the occurrences of 'unclean' in Leviticus. Continuing with ch. 12: Le 12:2 a woman who gives birth is unclean during the time "of her infirmity" Le 12:5 a woman who gives birth to a girl baby is unclean for a longer time Le 13:3 a leper is unclean Le 13:8 a leper is unclean Le 13:11 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:14 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:15 a leper is unclean Le 13:20 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:22 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:25 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:27 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:30 uncleanness in regard to a type of leprosy Le 13:36 uncleanness in regard to leprosy Le 13:44 a leper is unclean Le 13:45 the leper shall cry, 'unclean' Le 13:46 a leper is unclean so long as he is a leper Le 13:51 'leprosy' in a garment or skin Le 13:55 if after washing for 7 days, an affected garment or skin still appears 'leprous,' it is unclean and is to be burned Le 13:59 'leprosy' in a garment or skin: unclean vs. clean Reviewing these occurrences, it appears that the designation as 'unclean' arises in most cases out of a determination that there is leprosy, either on the person or in a garment, etc. Leprosy is contagious. The leper was to separate himself from others. The 'leprous' garment was to be burned. Once again, in most caes the basis for being called 'unclean' appears to be health, sanitation and safety. I notice words indicating causation: a causal relationship between the unhealthy/unsafe condition and the designation as 'unclean.' It's easy to see how through all these things, God was impressing on the people how important it was to be "holy," or separate from the common, because He Himself was holy. They knew that Yahweh was actually present in the camp. The pre-incarnate Christ was in the cloud and spoke personally with Moses as to a friend. Thank you for your work on this so far, Dave. I can already see that it's going to be a worth while study. We're going to see Jesus in the Sanctuary, first the earthly and then the Heavenly. (After we finish this subject, I would love to study how Christ is revealed in the sanctuary in the books of Daniel, Revelation, and Hebrews.) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
David Koot Posted July 8, 2007 Author Posted July 8, 2007 Now, here is the next batch of occurrences of 'unclean' in Leviticus: "Le 15:2 Someone with a running sore is unclean Le 15:4 Beds he lies on and places he sits are unclean Le 15:5 And whosoever toucheth his bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:6 And he that sitteth on any thing whereon he sat that hath the issue shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:7 And he that toucheth the flesh of him that hath the issue shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:8 And if he that hath the issue spit upon him that is clean; then he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:9 And what saddle soever he rideth upon that hath the issue shall be unclean. Le 15:10 And whosoever toucheth any thing that was under him shall be unclean until the even: and he that beareth any of those things shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:11 And whomsoever he toucheth that hath the issue, and hath not rinsed his hands in water, he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. These occurrences indicate a running sore as being the cause of an 'unclean' designation. Causation appears clear. Health and sanitation issues appear to be present. As to the following occurrences, this student is not clear in regard to the nature of the underlying issues. Health issues may be suggested, but there may be other issues present: Le 15:16 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:18 The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:19 ¶ And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. Le 15:20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. Le 15:21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. Le 15:24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. Le 15:25 And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. Le 15:26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. Le 15:27 And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Le 15:33 And of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lieth with her that is unclean. Let's take a look at the scorecard so far, roughly halfway through the book: Leaving out the occurrences of 'unclean' in ch. 11, so far we see roughly 67 occurrences of the word up through ch. 15. Of those 67 occurrences, 48 clearly appear to pertain to health, safety and sanitation issues. Of the remaining 19 occurrences, 16 MAY pertain to health issues, while 3 MAY as well, but this student is uncertain as to the 19 occurrences. At least, 72% pertain, on their face, to health and sanitation issues. This presents a reasonable possibility that the occurrences in ch. 11 may also pertain to health and safety issues. At the very least, it is possible. Based on the pattern so far in the book, the possibility is greater than 50%. Upon completion of the survey of the book, attention will be given to the ch. 11 occurrences. Dave Quote
ChildOfGod4Ever Posted July 8, 2007 Posted July 8, 2007 Well, I haven't read the whole thread, but you know, all these rules simply look like basic health codes given to people who likely were living in conditions similar to those who don't have it so great in India. Were I to be the leader of people in those conditions, I'd have the same kinds of rules for them too - for the sake of their physical health - not for the sake of their Spiritual Validation as being people who belong to Him. It is true that I seem to be on a real trip about that lately. I think I'll bow out of this conversation for the time being. I need time to regroup. Quote The only failing of the human spirit is in not knowing Who's you truly are, and that the Love is real. Love fearlessly.
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 all these rules simply look like basic health codes given to people who likely were living in conditions similar to those who don't have it so great in India. Were I to be the leader of people in those conditions, I'd have the same kinds of rules for them too - for the sake of their physical health Bingo! And to COG I would say, "May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind always be at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields. And until we meet again, May God hold you in the palm of His hand." Quote
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 Very well. Let's look at the final batch of occurrences of 'unclean' in Leviticus. Beginning at ch. 16, " Le 17:15 And every soul that eateth that which died of itself, or that which was torn with beasts, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger, he shall both wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even: then shall he be clean. [color: blue] [Note: The following occurrence is a different Hebrew word, 'niddah,' which has 24 occurrences in the Hebrew OT, and pertains to sexual impurity.] Le 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless. Le 20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. [pertaining to the Levites] Le 22:4 What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him; Le 22:5 Or whosoever toucheth any creeping thing, whereby he may be made unclean, or a man of whom he may take uncleanness, whatsoever uncleanness he hath; Le 22:6 The soul which hath touched any such shall be unclean until even, and shall not eat of the holy things, unless he wash his flesh with water. [pertaining to the valuation of people and animals] Le 27:11 And if it be any unclean beast, of which they do not offer a sacrifice unto the LORD, then he shall present the beast before the priest: Le 27:27 And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation." So, that is all of them. We can see that most of the occurrences pertain to health and sanitation issues. Now, finally, in the next post, I shall take a look at the ch. 11 occurrences. Dave Quote
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: At least, 72% pertain, on their face, to health and sanitation issues. except for the inconvenient fact that it doesn't say anything about health, or about a person falling ill as a result. Only that they are unclean, and make themselves 'abominable' and thus can no longer have access to the sanctuary encampment. As you like to say, this health thing is your opinion, based upon 21st century knowledge, and not found within the text. Or maybe this is one of those 150+ year old 'unchanging truths.' Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
Administrators Gail Posted July 9, 2007 Administrators Posted July 9, 2007 Good point, Ed. I'm wondering if there is any significance for us in our personal walk with the Lord to make a difference between the clean and the unclean Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 except for the inconvenient fact that it doesn't say anything about health, or about a person falling ill as a result. Only that they are unclean Quote
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 I'm wondering if there is any significance for us in our personal walk with the Lord to make a difference between the clean and the unclean To answer that question, one might reasonably ask whether or not following sanitary practices and taking steps to avoid spreading disease and infection would have such significance. What do you think, Gail? Of course, we still haven't gotten to ch. 11 yet. That is coming up. Quote
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: what was the intent of the Lawgiver, not the level of knowledge of the people at the time--as to which knowledge, we cannot say either way with certainty. I think it is reasonable to use our understanding of basic facts of human existence. Wow! Now you're proposing to go beyond what the text meant to the people at the time-- and you're going to read God's mind, and tell us what HE intended!! I love how you are certain about being uncertain concerning their knowledge of sanitation. And then to offer as evidence what you 'think is reasonable.' All the historical evidence is against you. The text speaks only of uncleanness and abomination (no, of course it doesn't say abomination 'everywhere'-- but it NEVER says you will become ill). So, despite total absence of mention of health or illness, despite the historical facts that people did not understand the causes of illness, we are asked to take what you 'think is reasonable' to understand what GOD had in mind (but did not say). I see now how small my ambition is. I only hope to understand the text. It never occurred to me to try to read God's mind. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: Good point, Ed. I'm wondering if there is any significance for us in our personal walk with the Lord to make a difference between the clean and the unclean When we understand the meaning that the Israelites actually got out of this text, find the principles behind that, and apply those principles to current circumstances, certainly. Otherwise, we might as well junk it and get a public health text book--it's easier to read and more detailed. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 I wish to remind whoever chooses to participate on this thread . . . As the one who started the thread, I ask that any participants on this thread avoid personal attacks or put-downs, and stick to the issues. Thank-you. Quote
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: All the historical evidence is against you. The text speaks only of uncleanness and abomination (no, of course it doesn't say abomination 'everywhere'-- but it NEVER says you will become ill). So, despite total absence of mention of health or illness, despite the historical facts that people did not understand the causes of illness, we are asked to take what you 'think is reasonable' to understand what GOD had in mind (but did not say). Declaring something to be a 'personal attack' may be a good way of deflecting it, but it doesn't refute it. Nothing in the above quote says anything about your intelligence, your motivation, your character, it only speaks to the cogency of your position. Maybe people will see that declaring something a 'personal attack' when it is not, is one of the cleverest personal attacks. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: what was the intent of the Lawgiver, Those are your words. Do you deny them? Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 I am going to proceed with the survey of the book of Dt. I do recognize that certain questions have been raised. The issues will be addressed, in due time. However, upon reflection, I think it is best for right now to proceed with a review of Dt. ch. 11. Later today, I will undertake that on this thread. Quote
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: Quote: what the Lawgiver intended. Those are your words. Do you deny them? Will the answer to my question be in Dt. 11? Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: Good point, Ed. I'm wondering if there is any significance for us in our personal walk with the Lord to make a difference between the clean and the unclean Now, if Leviticus is really about 'holiness and access,' then we might derive a number of important principles which would have significant implications--far beyond our menus or actuarial tables. Ancient temples were slaughterhouses, including the tabernacle, and the levitical laws did have significant sanitary benefits. But the worshipers weren't thinking about germs and illness when they went to the temple, unless they were making a thank offering for healing. They were thinking about how to experience the power of God. And that's the real focus of Leviticus. Health and sanitation were no doubt by-products of this, but that's not what the devout believer saw when reading Leviticus. On the one hand they were impressed with the holiness of God-- nothing flawed, mixed, spotted, or blemished in any way could come near his dwelling place. On the other hand God provided means for dealing with all those flaws and blemishes, of purifying the believer so that he could come to the opening and make his offering, and thus be right with God. Or he could have been mainly concerned with what to eat. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 Now, if Leviticus is really about 'holiness and access,' Quote
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Yes, David. We've seen your routine. We know you can block any progress. However, I was not addressing you, I was trying to answer Gail's question. So let's just make this easy. Anything David doesn't write is an assumption or an opinion--according to David. Now, can we get on with this? oops! there was actually a positive comment!!!!! missed it the first six times through. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
David Koot Posted July 9, 2007 Author Posted July 9, 2007 Please keep to the issues, and avoid personal attacks or personalizing posts like this. I do wish to repeat this, once again, as the one who started the thread. Also, if an individual wishes to carry on a private conversation with an individual, then it would seem that a PM would be appropriate. However, this is a discussion thread. As to the assumptions and statements of opinion in the earlier post . . . so far, they have the value of assumptions and personal opinions. Are there any cites or documentation? Quote
there buster Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Quote: I do wish to repeat this, once again, as the one who started the thread. Also, if an individual wishes to carry on a private conversation with an individual, then it would seem that a PM would be appropriate. However, this is a discussion thread. No. David. You do not own the thread. And your roadblock tactics keep it from being a discussion thread. Apparently only you are allowed to make statements of any kind here. Well, I leave you to it. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.