What is a friend?

[Guest]

Isn't there a Gospel song that says "Earthy friends may fail thee"? Not that a earthy friend has purposed in his/her heart to do so, it just happens, and it is by heavens design to show us to rest ALL our weight on our Master as we can never werrie Him.

"The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes His own

fortress, which He holds in a revolted world, and He intends

that no authority shall be known in it but His own. A

soul thus kept in possession by the heavenly agencies is

impregnable to the assaults of Satan. But unless we do

yield ourselves to the control of Christ, we shall be dominated

by the wicked one." DA 324

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So there are friends, then there are friends, but a true friend will not lead you one step in the wrong direction.

[Gail]

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Are you implying, Br. Lhc, that you believe persons can become friends of the genuine sort just by internet posting of public messages in a Forum?

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I believe it can happen.

[Bille]

Gail wrote:

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Are you implying, Br. Lhc, that you believe persons can become friends of the genuine sort just by internet posting of public messages in a Forum?

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I believe it can happen.

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I doubt that people become "friends of the genuine sort just by internet posting of public messages". But I do think that initial contacts with persons may be made in the public forum which then will become "friends of the genuine sort" as they move into personal one-on-one contact, whether by email, chat-rooms, or phone conversations.

But of course that would partly depend on what one calls the "genuine sort". I would never limit my definition of friend to those who meet all 16 points as given earlier. I think both the number of points and the number of friends that one "should" have are vastly exaggerated. With those criteria, I fear there are a lot of us who would have to say that we have no "friends" at all of the "genuine sort".

I much prefer the definition of friends given by someone I met during a visit to GC headquarters a number of years ago, which was simply, "Anyone who is not an enemy is my friend ... and I don't count anyone as an 'enemy'".

[cricket]

Internet posting can be one of the rawest forms of self exposure. In this sense, friendship via the Internet may be the closest form of frienship many of us have.

There are things my on-line friends know about me that even my closest "tangible" friends don't know. (Not because I don't share that part about my life, sometimes things come up on-line that don't come up in day-to-day living...Also, I find it easier to express my thoughts in written form than in oral conversation.)

[cricket]

Oh, and another thing...Jesus reveals much of Himself via the written word and not in one-on-one conversations.

And so, I might add that written conversation is essential to true friendship!

[Nicodema]

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applying the standards of face-to-face friendships to online friendships, which is fair enough, but may be a little misleading

So, in a nutshell, I believe there are such things as online friends, but they're quite different from friends we have in Real Life and we give and get different things with them.

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I am reminded that in days gone by people used to construct entire friendships around the exchange of letters through the postal system, which is far slower and even more cumbersome than through email or board posts on the internet. But I agree, there's an element present in physical presence that doesn't "translate" over the airwaves.

There is some truth to the idea that when we are reading the written word, we are reading at least as much if not more of ourselves than we are of the author. We "hear" the words in one of the many voices in our heads, either our own voice or someone whose voice we draw an association with. This can be fortunate or unfortunate, depending on how those associations are drawn and who we draw them with.

For example, if someone uses a lot of (what is for me) negative-trigger words and phrases in their posts or writings, I might associate their "voice" with someone who had a negative influence or impact on my life, and that in turn might turn me off to them, when if I were to know them in reality, in real life, I might find them to be as different from this other person I'm "associating" them with as night and day!

[LifeHiscost]

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...however, after saying that I might pause and even contradict myself when I say with the influence of the Holy Spirit bonding two likeminded Christians in postings or chat-mode when using internet service there might be a possibility.

Turmeric

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[:"red"]"Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening]." [/]

1 Cor 13:7

[:"red"] "...with men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." [/] Matt 19:26

Blessings!!

Lift Jesus up!!

[LifeHiscost]

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There is some truth to the idea that when we are reading the written word, we are reading at least as much if not more of ourselves than we are of the author. We "hear" the words in one of the many voices in our heads, either our own voice or someone whose voice we draw an association with. This can be fortunate or unfortunate, depending on how those associations are drawn and who we draw them with.

For example, if someone uses a lot of (what is for me) negative-trigger words and phrases in their posts or writings, I might associate their "voice" with someone who had a negative influence or impact on my life, and that in turn might turn me off to them, when if I were to know them in reality, in real life, I might find them to be as different from this other person I'm "associating" them with as night and day!

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Very perceptive reasoning, Nico. IMHO that is one of the reasons the gift of faith, even though given by the Holy Spirit, is a growing process that requires constant reflections on how God has blessed us in the past, instead of His allowing us to perish in our own filth.

[:"red"]"....all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags..." [/]Isaiah 64:6

[:"red"]"Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all." [/]John 13:10

[:"red"]:Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood." [/]Rev 1:5

Blessings!!

Lift Jesus up!!

[Guest]

Reading the first post (What is a friend) in this thread bought tears to my eyes as I realise that all of my friends are outside of the church. I have found people in the church to be either working full time or too busy with family or other things. Just the other day I was reflecting on what life would be like if I had no children. It was a really scary thought as I would be all alone in the world, and no one in the church would give a damn.

[Michelle]

I probably have 3 friends like this, outside of my DH. 2 are SDA (one I've known for almost 20 years) and one is not.

I am a very reserved person and don't "let people in" too much, so it's mostly my responsibility. However, I also don't worry too much about it, because I'd rather have a small handful of highly trusted friends than more--just more for my feeble brain to manage. Even though 2 of these friends I am not in constant contact with (since we live on different continents), I know that, were I to call either one of them, they would drop what they were doing and talk with me. I've done it, and I know.

M

[Michelle]

I probably have 3 friends like this, outside of my DH. 2 are SDA (one I've known for almost 20 years) and one is not.

I am a very reserved person and don't "let people in" too much, so it's mostly my responsibility. However, I also don't worry too much about it, because I'd rather have a small handful of highly trusted friends than more--just more for my feeble brain to manage. Even though 2 of these friends I am not in constant contact with (since we live on different continents), I know that, were I to call either one of them, they would drop what they were doing and talk with me. I've done it, and I know.

That being said, the thought of the friend who lives here moving (probably) this summer has still filled me with sadness. I have come, more than I had realized, to depend on this friend's being there.

M

[NormF]

He drew a circle

that shut me out -

Rebel, heretic, a thing to flout;

But love and I had the wit to win.

We drew a circle

that took him in.

-- Edwin Markham

That's been a favorite of mine for a lot of years now. It's not as easy though as six short lines make it sound. But when I do it, it works ... every time. It hasn't failed yet. Not that now I have a crowd of friends around me everywhere I go because of the way I've gathered them all in; that's not my personality. I have to confess that I'm just not the gregarious, outgoing sort that pulls them in like a magnet. But the friends I have I wouldn't trade for anything.

I think Markham's poem is pretty well in tune with what the Author of Love had in mind when He designed us and signed us as His.

Regards,

Norm

[Nicodema]

Norm, that Markham quote is another one of my favorites!! Thanks for posting that. Yes, I find it begins with not counting someone else an enemy or shutting them out. When we refuse to cave into the sin of creating in-groups and out-groups, we find that (a) everyone is different and unique; ( no one "fits in", therefore © everyone "fits in" -- if you get my drift.

[Bravus]

I think the corrollary of that is that, although I have a few friends who I cherish and who will be friends for life, I also have no enemies. Apart from my family, that may be the achievement I'm most proud of: I don't think anyone thinks of me as their enemy. And I don't think of anyone as my enemy.

[cricket]

Interesting thing about enemies. I wish no ill will for anyone and yet, there are two people that do wish ill will for me. I'd give anything to change their view of me. Unfortunately, they have drawn a circle that has shut me out. And yet, while I draw a circle that has no boundaries, they refuse to break the circle they've drawn and join mine.

[Bravus]

True dat - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound as though having enemies is anyone's *fault*: there are just malevolent people in the world who will take it into their heads to hate someone no matter how much they are loved and respected in return. That verse about 'as much as it depends on you, be at peace with everyone' is what I was trying to say...

[cricket]

Well said!

[Nicodema]

Ah if only it were that simple. In my life I have found that when others get it into their heads to make of me an enemy, they cannot resist also attempting to make either me or, if they have the ability, my life, as miserable as they possibly can. This in turn leads to me being stuck with a lot of nasty feelings I don't want and never asked for but cannot help any more than you can help bleeding when someone stabs you or feeling pain when someone punches you. I for one am tired of the mentality that would blame ME for this when those bad feelings are entirely the cause of someone else, and I'm also sick of the mentality that claims it's somehow my "choice" to feel that. Rubbish and bullocks. And those who spread that mentality are just as bad as those who spread the misery itself in the first place, because they are worse than Job's comforters. They could be offering consolation and healing balm and instead offer that poppycock for which they ought to be hung, drawn and quartered.

There. Have said my piece ...

[Clio]

Nico,

Even with all the nasty feelings Jesus still loves you. It's not like those nasty feelings are a secret to Him!

The only think I find that works for me, is to tell Jesus and Abba Father in explicit detail exactly how I'm feeling, squall all over Their shoulders... Jesus usually gives me the hem of His skirt, because His chest is usually bare... Hmmmmm .... maybe that's why when I'm all squally, cryin', sniffin' and such, I usually perceive Them as Abba Father, cuz Abba always wears a robe....

Sorry.. sidetracked... anyway, I tell Them in detail and ask for replacement emotions They want me to feel.

Was same thing I did on Thursday when you got me moving... and turns out was really needed...

(((Nico))))

Clio

[NormF]

Nico, I think I understand better now what you're saying. I'm glad you said your piece. Your transparency is a gem. It is one of the special gifts God has given you, in my opinion. Thank you for the way you share.

When I draw a larger circle though, it isn't that I always make new friends. When I "win," it is by virtue of having drawn the larger circle. Should that include someone new who now calls me friend, wonderful; that's a special bonus. But in a way, really that's secondary.

Enlarging the circle of those I love means I have grown. God has used this problem, this challenge, as an opportunity to move me further down the road - helping me to open my heart wider, emulate Him better, moving me closer to others ... and closer to Him.

As the song says, "Oh, how He loves you and me." And how He wants us to love one another. May He keep blessing us, settling us ever deeper in His love.

Regards,

Norm

[Nicodema]

Norm, you have a beautiful heart. Just from reading your words I can see the love of Jesus growing in you. It must be truly exciting to be experiencing that.

Thanks for your post.

Nico

[LifeHiscost]

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It was a really scary thought as I would be all alone in the world, and no one in the church would give a damn.

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That may be the way you feel, Be-, but it isn't so. Just listening to the words you wrote makes my heart go out to you, and I hardly know you. And I believe there are many you probably don't know about, who, if they knew the way you feel, would be highly inclined to prove you wrong. Not just to be right themselves but because they wouldn't want you to continue thinking yourself so removed from the family of God.

[:"red"] "A man who has friends must himself be friendly,

But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother. " [/] Prov 18:24 NKJV

[:"red"] ""No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. " [/] John 15:15 NASB

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

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He drew a circle

that shut me out -

Rebel, heretic, a thing to flout;

But love and I had the wit to win.

We drew a circle

that took him in.

-- Edwin Markham

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Beautiful!

[LifeHiscost]

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Interesting thing about enemies. I wish no ill will for anyone and yet, there are two people that do wish ill will for me. I'd give anything to change their view of me. Unfortunately, they have drawn a circle that has shut me out. And yet, while I draw a circle that has no boundaries, they refuse to break the circle they've drawn and join mine.

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While we may count no one our enemy, one cannot be a Christian without them.

[:"red"] "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

For I have come to part asunder a man from his father, and a daughter from her mother, and a newly married wife from her mother-in-law--

And a man's foes will be they of his own household." [/] Matt 10:34-36

[:"red"] "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom." [/] Luke 12:34 NASB

[cricket]

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While we may count no one our enemy, one cannot be a Christian without them.

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Can one be a Christian who draws a circle that shuts another out? To be fair, these people had good reason to shut me out. However, since then, I've asked forgiveness and they've given it. Still, the circle is there, and I am not welcome.