It's only gonna get worse

[Neil D]

For a war with no end in sight, this figure can only get larger. And with no exit strategy, we can expect our sons and daughters to add to that death count.

As of Monday, Aug. 20, 2007, at least 3,707 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians. At least 3,049 died as a result of hostile action, according to the military's numbers.

The AP count is six higher than the Defense Department's tally, last updated Monday at 10 a.m. EDT.

The British military has reported 168 deaths; Italy, 33; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 21; Bulgaria, 13; Spain, 11; Denmark, seven; El Salvador, five; Slovakia, four; Latvia, three; Estonia, Netherlands, Thailand, two each; and Australia, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Romania, South Korea, one death each.

The latest deaths reported by the military:

_ No deaths reported.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

El Salvador, five

My wife and her family are very proud of their country's support in the War on Terror. These losses should steel our resolve to stick it out and win.

[Neil D]

My wife and her family are very proud of their country's support in the War on Terror. These losses should steel our resolve to stick it out and win.

I am glad that your wife and her family are proud of the support they have given...

But what's to win, Shane? Terrorism is a process, not a goal..You can not win a process...We don't have a goal that workable...We need a different stratagy...And if we need to get out, let's get out....We will make better friends if we let them settle thier differences themselves...with minimum imput from the US...

[Jeannieb43]

Unfortunately, our president and his sidekicks continue to preach the "we will win" doctrine. Totally far-fetched and impossible to achieve.

He never learned how to admit when he's wrong.

[Gerr]

Quote:

El Salvador, five

My wife and her family are very proud of their country's support in the War on Terror. These losses should steel our resolve to stick it out and win.

How would you measure victory? When there's no Sunni or Shiite left standing?

If the Sunnis and the Shiites want to kill each other, we should not put our sons and daughters between them.

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

Winning is leaving a stable Iraq behind. Very simple. No reason to let semantics confuse us.

[Amelia]

Forgive me for being pessimistic, but I don't believe their will ever be a stable Iraq as long as there is strife amongst the tribes.

[phkrause]

I must agree with you on that. But I will say that if they would allow Jesus into there life's tensions would slowly go away.

pkrause

[Neil D]

We had an oppertunity...we squandered it....due to short sightedness...

We need a different strategy now. Put more Iraqi's to work, get their infrastucture and power structure up to thier needed capacity, engage in discussion with major and minor Sunni and Shia leaders, take out a few other baddies selectively, get a better understanding of the Persian mentality....

I donno....maybe we could win it....but I really doubt it with this administration....It needs brains, not reflexes...

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Forgive me for being pessimistic, but I don't believe their will ever be a stable Iraq as long as there is strife amongst the tribes.

I agree, we may not be able to win it. I won't pretend I know more than I do either. There is a lot of things that are not public knowledge so all we can do is form opinions with what is reported.

However that is not to say we shouldn't want to win. Sadly, many people hate President Bush so much they would like to see us fail in Iraq just so that they can call Bush a failure. On the flip side of the coin they would hate to see us win in Iraq because they wouldn't want to give credit to Bush for doing something good.

[Gerr]

I must agree with you on that. But I will say that if they would allow Jesus into there life's tensions would slowly go away.

pkrause

Sorry, but they won't accept Jesus as LORD.

Gerry

[phkrause]

unfortunately I know that, but we also know that Jesus is the answer.

pkrause

[monica]

Who won't accept Jesus? The muslims in Iraq? Or Bush? If Bush was a Christian, he would mind his own bussines.

Watching CNN on Virginia Tech tragedy this spring, I was wondering: How many people die in Iraq on a daily basis and nobody mourns them?

[Neil D]

monica-

Welcome to Adventist World Affairs forum...

You are a brave soul to wander in here and voice an opinion. Opinions here are as varied as there are Adventists. I encourage you to wander thru this political minefield and share your opinnion, but most of all, do let your tolerance of others show thru...It goes a long way in keeping others from running away from here screaming! ROFL

you will find many of us have our opinions that will not change and others who have an agenda and want to and some who can't hear but want to talk anyways. But there is different points of view, and it is stimulating and, you can learn from it...

Enjoy the forum...

[John317]

One thing the insurgents in Iraq have in common with the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese regulars is that they never keep a running body count. They know that winning is not about the number of Americans you kill on the battlefield. It's about what's happening on the home front and in Congress. They've learned their lesson well. To win the war they didn't need to beat us in a single battle; they just had to outlast us. Looks like they've just about done it.

[Bravus]

Or, you know, you could have just not gone in in the first place. Hard to lose a war that never starts.

[Bravus]

Quote:

Sadly, many people hate President Bush so much they would like to see us fail in Iraq just so that they can call Bush a failure. On the flip side of the coin they would hate to see us win in Iraq because they wouldn't want to give credit to Bush for doing something good.

I agree that there are definitely people like that out there. But there are also many of us who would *love* to see a stable, safe Iraq. The lives of Iraqis mean much, much more to us than any grudge against Bush. We're angry with Bush because of the effect his decisions have already had on the lives of Iraqis, but a peaceful solution would assuage that. We're not doom-saying to score political points, but because we are looking clear-eyed at what is actually going on in Iraq right now. The situation has been consistently getting worse, in all ways and on all measures, since the invasion, and there's no evidence at all to suggest that this is changing or is going to change. We'd be delighted if it were... and even likely to support longer engagement by the US if that was needed to support and ensure such change. It's not happening, it's not going to happen, we told you before you invaded that this would be a quagmire, Cheney said years ago that it would, and it is... It's a disaster and tragedy.