Avowed witch considers repugnant hanging hate crime

[LifeHiscost]

How far will Christian's find it necessary to mute their testimony about the dark side without being accused as trouble makers?

"When Ahab saw Elijah, Ahab said to him, "Is this you, you troubler of Israel?"

He said, "I have not troubled Israel, but you and your father's house have, because you have forsaken the commandments of the LORD and you have followed the Baals." 1 Kings 18:17,18 NASB

Perhaps this subject should have been brought up in the "Signs of the End" forum.

Regards!

[Bravus]

If I knew which case you were referring to I might be able to join the conversation.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

How far will Christian's find it necessary to mute their testimony about the dark side without being accused as trouble makers?

It is usually Christians who accuse other Christians of being *trouble-makers* when witchcraft or the occult is brought up. Wicca is witchcraft.....but not all witchcraft is Wiccan. There are different *paths* of the occult that one can trod. There are those who believe in God, but give more credence to a lesser god or goddess. Then there are those who worship the Goddess, and her alone.

When I first became a Christian after being a witch for 9-10 years, there were some Christians (mostly SDA) who did NOT want me to talk about it.... because it scared them. Or made them feel *uncomfortable*..... The dark side? Unless you have been there, it is almost impossible to describe the *dark side*... It is not pleasant, nor safe. But it is REAL.

How many of you know where the closest area is of witchcraft and Magick to where you live? If you are in the US, I would venture to say perhaps within a couple miles.

How many of you ask God in prayer to bind Satan's power? That is one of the most powerful things to ask God to do.

Samhain (Halloween) is coming up. No problem for Christians, eh? Don't bury your heads in the sand, or holler "la la la la.....I can't hear you!!" Just as the forces of God can gather to protect, so can the forces of evil gather together to wreak havoc. And the good and evil forces can include not only angels, but humans as well.

just fyi, if there was a hanging, it most likely was not by a witch/witches. Most pagans I know would consider a hate crime, and particularly where a death occurs intentionally, to be a heinous event. But, there're always the lunatic fringe of any population...

**looks around**

this is more than I planned to write..

[Nan]

thank you for speaking about this, Pam. I have not ventured onto the 'other side' and these days try to keep away from even very mild venturings (as in reading newspaper horoscopes which are probably mass produced anyway). But I think I have always had a feeling of gratitude for protection from forces of which I am not even usually aware or entering my realms of consciousness.

I have never been comfortable with the idea of sending kids out trick or treating, for a variety of reasons (most of which have more to do with encouraging greed) but your words emphasize that we should not teach our children to trivialise this occasion, and hence expose themselves to later danger.

[Gail]

Quote:

How many of you ask God in prayer to bind Satan's power? That is one of the most powerful things to ask God to do.

Yes, I do this on occasion

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

How far will Christian's find it necessary to mute their testimony about the dark side without being accused as trouble makers?

1. The dark side? Unless you have been there, it is almost impossible to describe the *dark side*... It is not pleasant, nor safe. But it is REAL.

2. How many of you ask God in prayer to bind Satan's power? That is one of the most powerful things to ask God to do.

3. Just as the forces of God can gather to protect, so can the forces of evil gather together to wreak havoc. And the good and evil forces can include not only angels, but humans as well.

4. just fyi, if there was a hanging, it most likely was not by a witch/witches. Most pagans I know would consider a hate crime, and particularly where a death occurs intentionally, to be a heinous event. But, there're always the lunatic fringe of any population...

**looks around**

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Rudy. A few ideas to address your specific reactions.

1. Probably not enough was divulged in the initial referred subject to give adequate grounds for the best response. The "dark side" was referring to any part of satan's ploys to mislead and confuse the human race.

I certainly recognize the reality of the kingdom of darkness, which is not always revealed in its' unmasked state.

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds. " 2 Cor 11:13-15 NASB

1,2,3 Not only do I see that same kingdom a place of danger, but one so dangerous, it seems to me, the limited resources of men are totally inadequate to deal properly with those forces and they are best left to the God of all gods. I merely ask God to do what He does best, take care of those who entrust their life to Him.

When one considers the size of the universe, and that satan and his host have been restricted to this earth while God is in total control of the rest of that which He has created, it tends to reduce in the spiritual mind's eye the power of the evil one.

"Do you suppose that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will immediately provide Me with more than twelve legions [ more than 80,000] of angels? " Matthew 26:53

AMP

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12 NKJV

4. The man who was accused by a woman of a "hate crime", hung a witch in effigy for halloween, on a tree. It just "so happened" there was a woman(the same who accused), who identifies herself as a witch, who lives next door (or close) to him. Sounds very similar to charges of discrimination concerning Christians who decry a certain lifestyle. Thus the thread's first question.

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;

Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;

Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20 NASB

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Thank you for each of the responses to the incident, a newsworthy item in California. Hope the answer to Rudy might afford a fitting thought for a growing problem that will likely continue to grow in proportion to the rejection of safeguards set up by God for the benfit of His children.

Blessings!

[jasd]

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Quote:LifeHiscost

When one considers the size of the universe, and that satan and his host have been restricted to this earth... [ed.jasd]

...don’t intend to engage in an extended exposition upon the particular matter addressed in the above quote but...,

Rev 12:10 ... for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

seems to argue that Satan, the great adversary, stands [presently] before the throne of Gd and “accuses the brethren” day and night. To reject this reading of the text would constrain one to argue that

Satan, presently "restricted" to Earth, is forced to accuse the brethren by hollerin’ up to the heaven of heavens whilst accusing the brethren or that

he no longer accuses.

[LifeHiscost]

Rev 12:10 ... for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

seems to argue that Satan, the great adversary, stands [presently] before the throne of Gd and “accuses the brethren” day and night.

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." Luke 10:17-19 KJV

I see no inconsistency in the Word to suppose that if God can hear all of the prayers of His servants, even those who pray silently, that He also can continue to hear the complaints of the master of deceit as he tries to equate the failures of the saints, with his own rebellion while standing in perfect light.

Regards!

[Kountzer]

I have a 2nd, p/t job which I reported to one Monday evening, not long ago. I was surprised to see a co-worker, the asst. mgr, working my shift. Usually we never work the same shift. Anyway, no one else was around and he immediately started a conversation about how he understood about me wanting the sabbath off. The owner/mgr always pencils me in to work Friday evenings. I told him when I started and several times afterwards that I wouldn't be available on Friday's after sunset, and during the fall and winter, I wouldn't be available on Fridays at all.

This co worker mentioned that he too had to stand up for some of his holidays and sabbaths. I guess he figured if I could he could too. I was curious what sabbaths and holidays he was talking about. I was baptist before sda, so I know they haven't come up with anything new in that area. He told me that his sabbaths and holidays were days like the various soltices, holloweeen, etc. He was particularly geeked up about the renaissance festival that happens in October and November, on the weekends. Far as I know that festival is not specific to any religion. I think he sort of invented that one.

Putting it all together, I asked him if he was a wiccan. He answered matter of factly that he was. Whoa! I'd never talked to someone like that in person, not knowingly. I asked him when & how he got started in that religion. He said he has been around it all his life. He's part cherokee indian, and that he grandmother practiced native american religion similar to wiccan. In the back of my mind I was thinking about various things that I've been taught and sincerely believe about wicca and witchcraft, but I didn't mention any of it.

Not only is he into that religion, he's a biker as well. He looks like a biker, wears biker clothes. He said that he totalled his harley in an accident, incurred some hefty driver lic. fines, and had to start working at the restaurant to pay for it all. Dispite all that he's a nice guy.

There was another young 18 yr old that worked there that was reportedly wicca also. She wore multi-colored hair, goth black clothes, black leather wrist and neck bracelets with silvery spikes, and tight low waist jeans that revealed a little too much when she sat down.

All the young people are wearing that though. She eventually quit to work at a strip club. In fact it is the same club that Anna Nicole Smith used to work at. She dropped out of high school and is working on her ged. So, I guess dancing on a pole is her way of making decent money.

DB

[aldona]

Thank you for sharing that story, DB - as a denomination we need to stop demonizing other religions and those who follow them, and realize that they are human beings just like us.

Treating these people with courtesy and understanding does not equate to agreeing with their beliefs. And conversely, believing that our religion is the "right" one does not have to mean constantly going out of our way to portray everybody else as "wrong".

aldona

[Amelia]

OK, no one jump on me about this question, but is wicca a "reconised" religion? One that employers would have to acknowledge for religious days off? I know that the military is dealing with this right now and just recently the wiccan symbol was allowed on a tombstone at Arlington National Cemetery.

[jasd]

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Quote:LifeHiscost

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Lu 10:18 [ed.jasd]

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out,

Rev 12:12 ...for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Several things:

/ The question obtains: how short is “a short time”? Hardly millennia. I fail to find anything to suggest that Satan did not have access to the Throne of Gd – until the event of the above passage.

/ Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

/ I notice that, contextually, Revelation 12:7-12 follows the second woe (with many taking the position that the third woe and the seventh trumpet are one and the same).

/ Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. (one supposes that Satan had by then ‘fallen’ – yet still – had access to the throne of Gd)

One asks: “Exactly what did Jesus Christ mean in Luke 10:18?” Was He prophesying? Considering the elliptical extent to which “fall”, in the text, may be interpreted – what, indeed, did Jesus Christ mean? Also, considering the context of Revelation 12:10, one can hardly advance that He was, in the Luke 10 passage, speaking –

preteristically.

>>I see no inconsistency in the Word to suppose that if God can hear all of the prayers of His servants, even those who pray silently, that He also can continue to hear the complaints of the master of deceit...<<

“Suppose” might obtain; however,

the Bible provides us with the scenario of Satan involved as a major principal in the Conflict of The Ages. Were he to have been relegated or restricted to earth from which to voice or conduct his ‘defense’, he could very well then – plead or protest the illegality of the proceedings (of the mise en scène, as it were).

Yes, legal and illegal, as well procedure, are very much a part of what is occurring; else, how might one advance the concept (or doctrine) of Judgement?

Lastly, I note:

>>”...and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” Luke 10:19<<

What did Jesus Christ mean by the above statement? I mean, isn’t much made that the Apostles were martyred? One assumes that being martyred is not a death by ‘peaceful passage...’

(Are you offended by differing opinions? if so, let me know)

[LifeHiscost]

>>”...and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” Luke 10:19<<

What did Jesus Christ mean by the above statement? I mean, isn’t much made that the Apostles were martyred? One assumes that being martyred is not a death by ‘peaceful passage...’

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:: jasd

>>”...and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” Luke 10:19<<

What did Jesus Christ mean by the above statement? I mean, isn’t much made that the Apostles were martyred? One assumes that being martyred is not a death by ‘peaceful passage...’

Quote:LifeHiscost

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt 10:28 KJV

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26 KJV

"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" 1 Cor 15:54 NASB Emph theirs LHC

I appreciate the above references; but, isn’t “hurt” still “hurt”? whether used in the absolute or transitive?

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:: jasd

(Are you offended by differing opinions? if so, let me know)

Quote:LifeHiscost

"Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them." Psalm 119:165 KJV

(I asked because there are the existing perceptions of some few who believe that when one offers a differing opinion he or she does so to be contentious, argumentative, or to simply point out another's "error" - rather than to expand upon or to exhaust a point of dogma or doctrine)

>>My usual disengagement from ongoing differences of opinions comes when time and enthusiasm for the give and take of the conversation is clearly seen as making no progress toward the revelation of the love of Jesus, which could be on either or both sides of the conversation.<<

Point taken; that said and perhaps contrariwise, I tend to the sense that one is encouraged to scrutinize “Every word of Gd...” – sometimes, the love of Jesus being nowhere found (it being stipulated as omnipresent).

>>...be of the same [agreeable] mind one with another;<<

Yes, I believe that we are exhorted to that ideal; but bear in mind that the author of those words above was our good St Paul – who, literally, threw a paroxusmos or (transliterated) paroxysmos/fit – at a suggestion from his friend Barnabas? We might want to also bear in mind that it was probably not a

falling-down fit.

[LifeHiscost]

>>...be of the same [agreeable] mind one with another;<<

Yes, I believe that we are exhorted to that ideal; but bear in mind that the author of those words above was our good St Paul – who, literally, threw a paroxusmos or (transliterated) paroxysmos/fit – at a suggestion from his friend Barnabas? We might want to also bear in mind that it was probably not a

falling-down fit.

Thank you for your thoughtful response, jasd, and forgive me for taking so long to get back to you. There has been illness in the family and even the time I'm now spending at the board is eating at my conscience.

Your post deserves more than the answer that I'll make at this time but I'd like to suggest that one of the better examples of God's servants on earth, denied Jesus openly three times. I never find even shining bible examples, persons Jesus wishes me to pattern my life after.

The example you gave of Paul and Barnabas is a perfect example of two public individuals who, though wishing to serve the Lord with all their heart, had volatile enough characters that if they hadn't trusted in the grace of Christ for their success, their whole religious experience with Jesus could have ended in disaster. As it was, Jesus used their limited capacities to spread the gospel doubly so, to the honor and glory of God.

Jesus advice for men to repent and be converted daily is especially needed in the lives of those who have more visible responsibilities. And those who do not yet have those responsibilities would do well rejoicing in the privilege to pray for their erring brothers and sisters, wherever or whatever position they may carry.

"Bear (endure, carry) one another's burdens and troublesome moral faults, and in this way fulfill and observe perfectly the law of Christ (the Messiah) and complete what is lacking [in your obedience to it]." Gal 6:2 AMP

Regard!

[LifeHiscost]

Several things:

/ The question obtains: how short is “a short time”? >>Hardly millennia.<< I fail to find anything to suggest that Satan did not have access to the Throne of Gd – until the event of the above passage.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:LifeHiscost

>>...be of the same [agreeable] mind one with another;<<

Quote:jasd

Yes, I believe that we are exhorted to that ideal; but bear in mind that the author of those words above was our good St Paul – who, literally, threw a paroxusmos or (transliterated) paroxysmos/fit – at a suggestion from his friend Barnabas? We might want to also bear in mind that it was probably not a

falling-down fit.

>>...forgive me for taking so long to get back to you.<<

...not long: actually, I wasn’t expecting a response.

>>There has been illness in the family and even the time I'm now spending at the board is eating at my conscience.<<

Sorry about the illness in your family... I could never bear illnesses and lost a most dear relationship because I detested hospitals and spent too little time there with that friend. However,

in coming to Oregon to care for my mother when she became ill – I learned a lot about Gd and miracles (there never seeming to have been occasion in the hustle and bustle of Big City life). So, one supposes that even

illnesses serve their purpose – though it may be obscured at the time.

>>...one of the better examples of God's servants on earth, denied Jesus openly three times.<<

Good example.

>>As it was, Jesus used their limited capacities to spread the gospel doubly so, to the honor and glory of God.<< [ed.jasd]

“doubly so” – I’ve run across this thought before. But considering the paucity of information following Acts 15:39 with Barnabas fading from our Biblical histories – this serves to demonstrate ‘reading between the lines of Biblical text’..., mebbe, even advantageously.

>>...those who do not yet have those responsibilities would do well rejoicing in the privilege to pray for their erring brothers and sisters, wherever or whatever position they may carry.

"Bear (endure, carry) one another's burdens and troublesome moral faults, and in this way fulfill and observe perfectly the law of Christ (the Messiah) and complete what is lacking [in your obedience to it]." Gal 6:2 AMP<<

That would include even the unfaithful, yes? even those .orgs that exposit Writ unfaithfully, yes?

Prov 25:19 Confidence in an unfaithful man in time of trouble is like a broken tooth, and a foot out of joint.

That hurts!

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Several things:

/ The question obtains: how short is “a short time”? >>Hardly millennia.<< I fail to find anything to suggest that Satan did not have access to the Throne of Gd – until the event of the above passage.

Quote:LifeHiscost

While I recognize ... yet it seems not beyond reasonable minds to consider a few thousand years before an event a very short time, to a God Who has been here longer than the amount of lightyears it is to the next nearest constellation, the same One Who had the information given that men might help in preparation to avoid any possible dire consequences resulting from such an ocurrence.[ed.jasd]

Agreed, to a point. That said, one bears in mind that Gd speaks to man (for the most part) in language either understandable or decipherable; and when Writ states a “short time”, one assumes it is not a reference to a perspective of Gd’s but of man’s.

>>"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

Deuteronomy 29:29 KJV<<

Inasmuch as the above text references the conditional covenant made with the Children of the Exodus – I’m led to believe that the emphasis must be leading to “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God”; therefore, I proffer...

Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

>>It has been my observation that for the most part prophecy is very seldom clearly understood by all readers of the Word, even to those most kindly intended for the body of Christ,<< [ed.jasd]

True, how true that “prophecy” is “seldom understood”: the cause being in part the Lord’s – and the greater part – His “body”.

>>...and my own interest has never gone far beyond what Jesus feels I need to know.<<

That is probably the wisest course; however, in my case it is probable that “what Jesus feels I need to know” and what I reach for – conflict. That said, I may be excused – for Writ exhorts that

one reach – believing...

Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

>>"Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he." John 13:19

KJV

Since it is the Holy Spirit, according to God's Word, that has been sent to guide us into all Truth, it seems only logical to me to expect He will give the Truth to those Who need it and are humble enough to admit their need for enlightenment, to the Creator of the Light.<< [ed.jasd]

That presupposes either that among ‘those’ never having received the Holy Spirit – never had the need; or, that all needed and received the Holy Spirit; or, Jesus spoke only of the selected, elected, and predestined; or, one never asked... per Luke 11:13 (or do I misread the text and ‘admission’, per above, is of itself, a request?).

>>When given that light we are asked only to share that light, not to insist that others are wrong because they refuse to believe as we.<<

That may be true in the personal context; however, do you propose that a forum is intended only to share and not to note perceived error?

It is my contention that a forum is as the agora – where there is the expected, freewheeling and counter exchange of ideas – excepting where there is the obvious pedagogue together with his/her students: there, it may be that circumspection be appealed-to.

That said, one posting to a forum – expects the critique and/or criticism, as it should be.

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13 KJV<<

A great text to bear in mind – no matter the hour.

[Clio]

Well, I spent quite a bit of time trying to tell this whole forum...

I deal with demonic influence on a regular basis due to ....

oooops... I was told to be quiet and I didn't know what I was talking about....

That's ok... the boots still walk without anyone in them. And the screaming faces still form out of cabinet doors... and the chupacabra still walk in daylight when they shouldn't even be able to manifest.

[jasd]

>>Well, I spent quite a bit of time trying to tell this whole forum...

I deal with demonic influence on a regular basis due to ....<<

I can think of no better time than now that we may be apprised of

”principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world, and spiritual wickedness in high [places]”

as opposed to the flesh and blood that we do understand.

>>oooops... I was told to be quiet and I didn't know what I was talking about....<<

If not you then the less do we know – who have never experienced the powers of those principalities.

Gd’s people are destroyed for ignorance’s sake.

I know you are vouch-worthy concerning these matters... say on.

>>That's ok... the boots still walk without anyone in them. And the screaming faces still form out of cabinet doors... and the chupacabra still walk in daylight when they shouldn't even be able to manifest.<<

Yikes!

“...he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

SAY ON..., Clio.