Is this argument valid?

[Neil D]

I know that this has been view before...but I am curious....

Is the arguement of past history a valid arguement for not supporting current common practices, especially when the past history is totally disconnected to the present practice?

For example, you celebrate your birthday, because it happened on a certain day, but is it a valid arguement to continue celebrating it? We don't celebrate Hitler's birthday, so why should one celebrate Jesus' birthday?

Another example, We celebrate Christmas as Jesus' birthday, but it is not His birthday? Why?

Another example, is the current practice/celebration of Halloween a valid reason to celebrate it with monster/imposter/imaginary costumes because of it's history?

I am not trying to start an arguement, but just looking at the arguement...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The crucifixion of Christ was a long time ago. Shall we ignore that because of the length of time betwixt the actual event and now?

I don't think intentional ignorance of the timeline of events is a valid excuse for dishonoring God...for that is what it is to me. Others may not see it that way.

[Dr. Shane]

Different people place different values on traditions. Celebrating birthdays is a tradition that many people place value on. Some people place more value on it than others. Going out to watch a baseball game in a stadium with your father or son is another tradition that varies in the value placed on it from one person to the next. Celebrating holidays is another tradition.

Is there anything wrong with traditions? I would guess that depends on the tradition. If my family had a long history of belonging to and being active in the KKK, then I would have to say. yes, something is wrong with that tradition. If my family has a long history of celebrating the beginning of the Reformation every October 31, I would have to say, no, nothing is wrong with that tradition.

[Neil D]

The crucifixion of Christ was a long time ago. Shall we ignore that because of the length of time betwixt the actual event and now?

I don't think intentional ignorance of the timeline of events is a valid excuse for dishonoring God...for that is what it is to me. Others may not see it that way.

So then, by your arguement, we should mark the event by a holiday...like maybe Easter? ....Christmas? neither? both?

And even though the bible is a bit quiet on the timeline as to WHEN the Christ died, we should celebrate the death of Jesus...right?

[Neil D]

HEY

Well these are several questions in on forum

so lets start with what I SAY is the easiest one

the way the world celebrates Halloween I think is

from tradition and ignorance. as for any true christian

that celebrates Halloween as the world does is

doing so in ignorance. JUST look up the history of

Halloween in the World Book Encyclopedia and you will

see that is is devil worship and strong spritualism.

[Amelia]

I get stuck on why people continue to pray to baby Jesus. HEY!! HE GREW UP!!

[Neil D]

Quote:

OR we just celebrating to be celebrating?????

You know, Doug, I think you might be closer to the truth here than you realize....

In my discussions with non-adventist people, I find that they celebrate because an event is coming around...it is something to do to change the doldrums of daily life....something to get personally involved in and to involve others as well...to make life a better place....

And is that anything different than what a Christian is doing?...or at least, attempting to do?

Most non-Adventist people in the US have some Christian background and feel that they are decent people. When traditional holidays come around, it marks an event that something unusual needs to be done to break up the monotony of current life and make something better for others.

Most don't celebrate Halloween by going to some sacred place and sacrifice some animal...The current cultural theme of Halloween is scary...and it's fun to do some scary things to celebrate the scary things of life. Does anyone believe that Darth Vader lived when they were sacrificing animals to some gods? [remember, Darth Vader is an imaginary person in our current culture, and never lived. And, if truth be told, while he is a symbol of evil, he is a symbol of redemption as well.]

And if we look at Christmas, we find that the generally current cultural theme of Christmas is gifts, of both giving and recieving. I submit that it is not about money, nor about Jesus per sae. I am sure that every one has been told, "Tis better to give than to recieve"....or some variation of it. And while Santa and Rudolff, snowmen, and baby Jesus and mangers scenes are littered thruout the season, in each case, giving is the theme of every popular myth of Christmas.

Now, while you and I may agree that the historys of each holiday is steeped in traditions and superstitions, each holiday currently practiced does NOT bare any resemblance to it's historical origions. My question to each person out there in SDA land is why do we emphasis the historical traditions for our non-participation when it is not valid......

Oh, yes, I do participate in Christmas...And yes, I do NOT participate in Halloween...but for totally different reasons than what is given historically from SDAs....

I do not participate in Halloween because the emphasis is on being scared....I don't know about you, but I have a whole lot of things to be scared of...I don't need anything more...Nor do I need to celebrate 'scary-ness'...

I participate in Christmas because I want to believe in the spirit of giving...and that it affects people and that God's works waxes stronger from Nov 1, crests around Dec 25 and wains thru Jan 3rd...That is 8 solid weeks of thanksgiving, of giving, and recieving needed love and assurance that seems to sustain a lot of people thru the year....

It seems to me, that our arguements for non-participation of events are as outdated as SOME of our doctrines....And yet, some of our theology is sooooooooooo right on, that we seem to be afraid of taking it out and wear it on our sleeves....How does Agape...love on a daily basis...?

At any rate, that is the causation of why I was asking the question, "Is this a valid arguement?" regarding holidays...

[Dr. Shane]

I participate in Halloween, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, MLK Day, Valentines Day, Easter, Cinco de Mayo, Memorial Day, Independence Day (USA [7/4] El Salvador [9/15]) and Labor Day. Because while I am not of the world, I am in the world. Sheltering myself from the norms of the world will not help me reach anyone for Christ.

No I didn't forget... we just don't do much on President's Day or Columbus Day.

Quote:

It seems to me, that our arguements for non-participation of events are as outdated as SOME of our doctrines...

I don't know what doctrines are in question but I can't think of how a doctrine could become outdated. If it is wrong today, wouldn't have it been wrong 100 years ago too?

[Neil D]

Quote:

I don't know what doctrines are in question but I can't think of how a doctrine could become outdated. If it is wrong today, wouldn't have it been wrong 100 years ago too?

EEeessay...don't hijack this thread...The question is good, but let's keep this on this subject....

PS...I added to this post to clarify Shane's subsequent post.

[Dr. Shane]

Are we talking about holidays, traditions and celebrations? The title of the thread isn't that clear. I thought that was the direction of this thread.

[olger]

Someone said that we as humans are often looking for ways to

"celebrate" and that rings true. Then the question was asked if we celebrate the death of Christ. Much rather would I see people experience His death & resurrection daily, then "celebrate" it. That's my hope anyway.

olger