Comparative Study:ThanksGiving-Black Friday Shopping VS Keep

[Grammercy]

Fwd message:

============= ADVENTIST YOUTH CAMP? ================

Oh yes, our church members, especially some Adventist Youth-in

United States-seems to be very exiting, happy and full of joy

whenever the Black Friday comes. "Black Friday" is another name

given for annual 'after ThanksGiving Sales' in which the major big stores-especially the electronics and appliances stores such as Best Buys, Circuit City, Etc. have a big discounts [at least in theory] for most of the products in limited quantities. The discounts may be up to half price or more.

Now guess what. Since this is a special one-day only annual event with big discount prices [in theory], it leads to a real hard competition-not among sellers, but buyers-for them to be able to buy certain "big discount" products.

Well, some customers including our Adventist Youth waiting in line for hours, spending night before the Black Friday in a deep pre-winter night...not for getting food, not for an Emergency or

medical, not for helping others, and not because of any natural

disasters.

The only one reason, unfortunately, for our Adventist youth gather together-with their tents-and stay overnight is only because they don't wanna miss in spending their money, believe it or not. By the way, studies show that 92% of Black Friday shoppers spend the money for something they don't really need, but it's only because they want the products and following the stream.

So why our young people still want to wait in lines and spend all night long just for shopping? Waiting for 8, 12, 15, or probably 20 hours are very very long time and way too much, of course. In facts, physiology and phycosocial in their natural laws basically state that that usually long-waiting is destructive and not healthy since it can easily produce stress and lowering our immune system, right?

Not so, and not for us...our Adventist youth might say so. Why?

Simply because our youth testify that "Black Friday shopping is fun. So spending night in line is certainly fun, sensational,,,crazy but fun! That's why stay overnight is not a hard thing for us. Just wait. We know that's a very long waiting time. Yet, the time must come anyway. So, just wait faithfully...and no need to complaint about. Just wait...!!!"

What a big difference when we see another picture about keeping the Sabbath holy. More than 75% of Adventist Youth in North America now don't really care or at least they complaint--not about the Sabbath--but about to KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY-as a burden, too much,and not fun.

Especially whenever the Summer time comes. Sunset seems to be very long, huh? Yes, it is. But again, that what they say. Now they try to compromise their faith and start doing the same things what Sunday Churces do: Go to churh in the morning and after that go to shopping centers, malls, restaurant, movies, washing their cars, laundry, watching secular TVs...but in doing those kind of habbit comfortly, our Adventist Youth's attitude always says that "we are not doing bad things or criminals, and we know our Jesus is a God of Love and Mercy. Jesus that gives us freedom-not burdensome."

Sadly, this attitude fueled by the majority of Adventist Pastors in North America in their attitude that is so happy and proud to become allergic about "Doctrines".

Oh...But wait a minute, Pastors. Doctrine is not a dirty word. I

know that we MUST love and care one another. But this shoud not

politically misused as a "license" to eliminate and kick out all

about Adventist Doctrines, because those are our Fundamental Beliefs!

By not rebuking your young people and choose to keep silent in the name of "do not judge"....you, as official SDA Pastors, are not only downgrading the importance of Sabbath, but also don't care, ignoring and finally agree for God's people to do secular activities like sunday churches' people do after their morning worship. Then, as if so, That's your responsibility to preach and explaining why it is not unbiblical to do secular activities during the Sabbath.

Well, anyway, dear friends...if you can easily afford overnight

waiting just for the Black Friday Shopping with your joy and

exciting fun without any complaint, how much simpler and easier for all of us to be able to keep the Sabbaths holy from sunset to sunset...

....but only if you want. And if you love Jesus, keeping the Sabbath holy is not a burden, but a real joy and happiness as if you've been doing every year in Black Friday shopping.

Shopping is not a sing. DOn't get me wrong here. Sometimes I love shopping too.

Yet, eternity is much more important than shopping.

-cut-

=====================

Thank you for several Adventist Churches in Arkansas, Colorado,

Florida, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Oregon, etc...etc...that make this kind of ANNUAL Bible study or Seminars always available every year in your own churches or local community centers in early novembers.

[Dr. Shane]

Is it just me or does that article sound kind of negative?

First, I don't know how saving money can be a bad thing? Wasting money, yes. Saving money, no.

Second, a lot of the items purchased on "black Friday" are Christmas gifts. Those are things people give to other people for free on December 25.

Third, while materialism is a major problem in the church, it isn't limited to black Friday or the youth.

Fourth, the reason so many view the Sabbath as a burden, and not just the youth, is in a large part due to the local churches being so dead. Sabbath is a wonderful time for believers to fellowship together. As I travel throughout Latin America I find churches alive on Sabbath. They have the morning services, lunch, Adventist Youth Society in the afternoon and socials in the evening. Many of the local churches here in South Texas follow the same model - including mine.

[nuff sed]

Talk about negativism.............I wonder why this thread started out dissing youth and pastors.............both groups of which need all the love and support that they we can give them.

[there buster]

Quote:

long-waiting is destructive and not healthy since it can easily produce stress and lowering our immune system, right?

applying that standard, what do we make of a group of people waiting 160 years for the Second Coming?

The reason young people wait in line is that they perceive that what is being offered will benefit their lives. That they do not perceive that belonging to the body of Christ provides such benefits is our fault, not theirs.

When they perceive that there is value for them in the church, the will exert the same effort to be a part of it. Not only do I see this in the young couples in our little church, I get e-mails regularly from young people on several continents telling me how much they value my book, and demonstrating their eagerness to share a faith that has meaning and purpose for their lives.

They go to the electronics store because they expect to find things there that will make life more productive, rewrading, and enjoyable. When--not if--they see that sort of value in church, they will go to the same efforts to be there.

The problem with reaching those outside or leaving the church always rests on those IN the church.

A company that blamed customers for not buying the product would soon go out of business. The church in NA is doing both of those things.

[Woody]

Quote:

Sadly, this attitude fueled by the majority of Adventist Pastors in North America in their attitude that is so happy and proud to become allergic about "Doctrines".

I think black and dismal describes the attitude of this author whomever he might be. While I strongly disagree with him ... I have to wonder how much HIS attitude contributes to people being drawn to Christ or the SDA church ??? I can just imagine some of the behaviours that this "christian" demonstrates to the youth. Does he have his own personal "billy club" to keep them in line. God help us.

And just to demonstrate his lack of credibility ... look at what he says about SDA Pastors. Do any of you really believe that HE has taken a poll and knows what the majority of "Adventist Pastors in North America" think. I happen to know first hand that he has not contacted my wife. So, how would he know what the majority of Pastors think. Or does he just not count the women Pastors ???

[carolaa]

Is it just me or does that article sound kind of negative?

First, I don't know how saving money can be a bad thing? Wasting money, yes. Saving money, no.

Second, a lot of the items purchased on "black Friday" are Christmas gifts. Those are things people give to other people for free on December 25.

Third, while materialism is a major problem in the church, it isn't limited to black Friday or the youth.

Fourth, the reason so many view the Sabbath as a burden, and not just the youth, is in a large part due to the local churches being so dead. Sabbath is a wonderful time for believers to fellowship together. As I travel throughout Latin America I find churches alive on Sabbath. They have the morning services, lunch, Adventist Youth Society in the afternoon and socials in the evening. Many of the local churches here in South Texas follow the same model - including mine.

Couldn't have said it better!

I started doing Black Friday shopping before it had a name -- and long after I was considered a youth! I started doing it to save money on gifts for my son and my 2 nieces and 1 nephew.

The first year I got up at 4:30 to be in line at the first store by 5:30. I quickly got a couple things and was out in time to get in line at another store that opened at 7:00. I only got 1 thing there and was home by 7:30. Very impressive.

The next year, I found more things in the flyer, so my list was a bit longer. That's when I realized how lucky I had been the previous year. I was in line early again, but this time it took a little longer to get everything on my list, and in the meantime the checkout line quickly went to the back of the small toy store and clear across the back wall. It took well over an hour to get to the cashier. I started feeling faint because there was not good air circulation in the back of the store, plus I got *really* hungry before I got out of there. I did get home before 8am, though.

The next couple of years I had an even longer list, because I decided it would be a great savings to buy ALL the kids' Christmas and birthday presents, as well as a few extras for all the birthday parties that kids get invited to during the year. But I also a plan! I remembered how quickly the line got really long, so I asked my sister to go with me, and we took turns standing in line while the other continued to look for things on our list. I also remembered how difficult it was to hold my intended purchases for over an hour in line (small store with no carts), so I took a heavy-duty garbage bag to put them in. Several people commented to me what a good idea that was. I also remembered how hungry I got, so I took some snacks. Those were great years. I spent just over $100, which qualified me for a free toy. And I still got home by 8am. I was so happy, because I got nicer toys than I would otherwise have been able to get, and I got the whole year taken care of in a couple hours. Way cool.

Then we moved and I did it on a smaller scale for another 2-3 years until the kids got a bit older. Then they didn't care so much about having presents to unwrap and were just as happy with a gift card. But then my son got wind of the bargains to be had on Black Friday and wanted to try it himself. So we did it a couple years, but he didn't see anything he could afford this year, so I got to sleep in!

[ChildofChrist]

LOL, I attempted it only once. 'Nough said.

It seems that since I live for the coming of Christ in the clouds of glory, that I must be living for or in the future.

When I was younger, it was fun going to the stores the day after Christmas to pick up decorations etc that never sold or find things I didn't know they had and figured for the price, it would make a great gift for someone next year.

Children will reflect their parents in many ways. Are we showing them that we are worldly people or the handy dandy gadgets are worth standing in line for? Are we up and ready to go to church even when the weather is yucky out?

Recently an Ikea store opening in the city south of me. People were camping for several days all in the hopes of getting a free $200 chair. I guess their time is worth the money or they had nothing better to do. There are times I feel like I'm runing out of time and can't wait to find a few minutes to read another chapter in the current book. Even waiting at a traffic light, it often seems too long.

[carolaa]

LOL, I attempted it only once. 'Nough said.

It seems that since I live for the coming of Christ in the clouds of glory, that I must be living for or in the future.

When I was younger, it was fun going to the stores the day after Christmas to pick up decorations etc that never sold or find things I didn't know they had and figured for the price, it would make a great gift for someone next year.

Children will reflect their parents in many ways. Are we showing them that we are worldly people or the handy dandy gadgets are worth standing in line for? Are we up and ready to go to church even when the weather is yucky out?

Recently an Ikea store opening in the city south of me. People were camping for several days all in the hopes of getting a free $200 chair. I guess their time is worth the money or they had nothing better to do. There are times I feel like I'm runing out of time and can't wait to find a few minutes to read another chapter in the current book. Even waiting at a traffic light, it often seems too long.

Oh, yeah. Don't get me started about the after-Christmas bargains. I avoid the actual day after as much as possible because the crowds are as bad as Black Friday. But there are lots of bargains to be found for a week or so after. That's one reason I don't feel bad getting the kids gift cards. They get what they want and usually cheaper 'cause it's after Christmas.

[Stan]

I still think it is good to have differing opinions on matters.

Appreciate you will package them together for us Grammercy.

One of the problems with sharing opinions, is that you will always find people who do not share yours. Sometimes it is good to review the comments, as long as they are not too personal.

[olger]

I appreciated the article, Grammercy. It is thought-provoking.

oG

[Woody]

May I ask why this is submitted twice in two threads?

Like it really needs anymore coverage than it has already received ??

[cricket]

"Black Friday" is one of the only times in the year that an Adventist can get in on the first day of the sale. Most other sales start on Sabbath.

Really appreciated EDD's comment regarding the waiting game. [TIC]I wonder what sort of damage our young people are doing to their "stress levels" by waiting the long-game and abstaining from sexual relations.[/TIC]

[Taylor]

Black Friday is a time when I have purchased things that are used in evangelism, for church, for ministry at a very significant savings. I have also purchased some much needed personal items at a reduced price. I do not like waiting in line, even if it is only at 4 a.m., I don't enjoy the pushy crowds, but I do enjoy being careful with the money the Lord has intrusted to me and I am grateful that once a year there is such a sale.

And Edd it is true what you say "The reason young people wait in line is that they perceive that what is being offered will benefit their lives. That they do not perceive that belonging to the body of Christ provides such benefits is our fault, not theirs." I have had kids practically verbalize this in these exact words. On the other hand, there are some churches and communities that are very warm towards our young people and they are doing a fantastic job.

[Neil D]

Ok, some explain something to me.....

This "black Friday" thingy....I thought black friday was when the stock market lost 30-60% of it's value...?

[carolaa]

Ok, some explain something to me.....

This "black Friday" thingy....I thought black friday was when the stock market lost 30-60% of it's value...?

That's old school. Nowadays Black Friday is the busiest shopping day of the year, the day the stores finally get in the black (make a profit).

One could say it's also black because it's the dead of night when crowds of people start lining up at stores. Or one could say it's also black because of the fights that take place over the latest hot items, giving people black eyes. OK...I'll stop.

[Taylor]

Maybe it is when the stores go from being in the red to being in the black. :)

[Amelia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)