Selection of a Pastor

[Gerr]

Our Pastor is leaving. I am curious how other churches have been treated by their Conference in the selection of their Pastor. Does your Conference allow your local church to choose your Pastor? Or does your Conference just tells you they are sending you a Pastor without your input? Or perhaps listen to you but are sending you who they want anyway? Are they sending you someone who you know was booted out from another place? What is your Conference doing about their Pastors who should be in another line of work?

Gerry

[nuff sed]

The churches of the Florida Conference are generally in on the selection of a pastor every step of the way if they wish to be. Some churches form their own search committees, others don't particularly care.

[Woody]

It is the Conference that hires and pays for the Pastor. But, they usually will give some amount of choice to the local church. I don't think it is required though and is probably left up to the particular conference.

There is usually some kind of committee in the local church that advises the conf. on preferences. Sometimes the church in business session will vote as a whole between a certain number of applicants.

I think the conferences are trying to give more and more local control. I think this is good. But they still need to give some guidance.

And I am not sure what you mean by "booted out". But some times a particular church is not a good fit for a pastor. This does not mean that HE/She is not a good Pastor. He/She might just be too conservative for a particular church group. But then ... a more conservative church might love him/her.

Other times ... He/She is "booted out" because a change or fresh approach is needed. He/She does not need to be thought of as a lessor qualified pastor in these cases. And I am sure that your conference would not be suggesting to do it if He/She was not qualified and Spirit lead.

[aldona]

Well, our pastor has just left for greener pastures and we have been assigned another one. We haven't met him yet.

I think our conference operates on the "send a pastor without our input" model. Or at best, the "listen to us but send us who they want anyway" model.

Before our current pastor, we went through a period of changing pastors every couple of years. Some were good, many were not, and the emotional fallout of some of the dysfunction of those years is still clearing up. We were seriously wondering whether we, as a small and insignificant church, were being given all the pastors that couldn't work anywhere else, or had to be moved on from their previous positions because of some kind of mess or dysfunction.

Quote:

What is your Conference doing about their Pastors who should be in another line of work?

Are you kidding? The SDA church worldwide is so desperately short of pastors, that one of the standard ways of recruiting is to target people who ARE happily and successfully serving in another line of work, and laying a huge guilt trip on them about how they should be doing "the Lord's work" instead of their secular worldly job (regardless of their actual talents and abilities).

aldona

[nuff sed]

You have to understand that some conferences 'traditionally' did not leave a pastor in a district for more than two years. Some have abandoned that policy. We have one or two here in Florida who have exceeded 10-12 years. In some cases it's good..............others...not so good.....

[Woody]

What World ... I mean country are you from?

Really though Aldona ... the church is changing in many areas and conferences. I am sorry that your conference is back in the dark ages. Change comes slow. There are many traditionalists. They veto any change as not from Ellen White. But they do not really understand her. She was for change.

Some of this is cultural though. Just make sure you speak loud and carry a big stick. This may be needed for conferences that are so authoritative.

[Woody]

Quote:

What is your Conference doing about their Pastors who should be in another line of work?

That would depend upon who has judged them as unworthy.

If they are judged that way by conservatives ... then the condemnation should be ignored. But if those who have determined this are liberal ... then the pastor should be removed to less greener pastures.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Are you kidding? The SDA church worldwide is so desperately short of pastors, that one of the standard ways of recruiting is to target people who ARE happily and successfully serving in another line of work, and laying a huge guilt trip on them about how they should be doing "the Lord's work" instead of their secular worldly job (regardless of their actual talents and abilities).

aldona

There may be a lack of Pastors world-wide, but when I was still in SE California Conference, they practically froze the hiring of new pastors. At least that's what we were told when we went to the conference to let them know whom we wanted to be our pastor.

Gerry

[Taylor]

May I add my 2 cents in....From what I've seen, the world-wide church is short of pastors not because there is a lack of pastors but because there is no budget in many countries for the amount of pastors needed. The growth in membership is astronomical and the membership is poor thus many pastors have 10 or more churches.

Because of the budget not being what it needs to be, there are many pastors who graduate from theology and who pastor for free because of their love for the Lord, or for a small stipend and work full time in some other line of work.

There are also those who graduate with a theology degree in the USA who can't find work because there are more graduates than openings.

I haven't seen people pressured to become pastors who were in some other line of work. I have seen some encouraged to go into pastoring, because they had incredible talent in that direction but I have not seen pressure for many years in my half of the world. I do know of some professionals in other fields who changed their focus of ministry from being say doctors or teachers to become pastors (Yes I do know a doctor, teacher, and an accountant that became pastors). Many people didn't understand their decision but they are SO happy working as pastors. The doctor took a very significant pay cut but he said he is happier now than he has ever been in his life. He LOVES his new job even more than he loved being a doctor (and he loved that too).

Seriously, Aldona if your conference is short on pastors, tell them to look to other countries as there are fantastic pastors without jobs as pastors, who speak English.

Just my 2 cents

[Gregory Matthews]

I attend a church that has two pastora on the staff. Within a three month period, both left as pastors of this congregation.

The congregation has already spent more than 12 months in searching for replalcements. At every step of the way, the Conference has allowed the congregation to set the pace. It has advised, at times. But, in every case it has formally asked a pastoral to be our pastor, as requested by the congregation.

We finaly have one pastor in place, and the second person has accepted the request to come to hour congregation. That will take place in the future.

It is somewaht the thinking in this Conference that 9 years is a good time for a pastor to serve a congregation. But, that is not locked in concrete. Some serve less and some more.

If a decision is made for a pastor to leave a congregation, that person is snot guaranted an appropriate positon elsewhere in the Conference, or any places else. It may mean that the person is no longer denominatioinally employed. In some cases, that has meant the the pastor remained, but on congregational pay--directly paid by the congregation, and not employed by the Conference.

There are probably bothe advantages and disadvantages with this plan. The 9 year rule is not a rule. In some cases, in my opinion, it should have been. No one person is equally stroing in every aspect of their life and ministry. There probably comes a time when it would be well for someone to come in who can lead in a direction where the previous person has been weak.

[Woody]

The idea of "bi-vocational" Pastors is one that we might want to look at. And it is one that Aldona might like to suggest to her conference.

I think it can work well in some situations. Some conferences are doing that and moving more in that direction.

I think that most Pastors in the early church were "bi-vocational" were they not? We could just list the advantages. But then I guess we could list the disadvantages also.

[olger]

There are several bi-vocational pastors in Ohio, Redwood. My friend Jim Howard was one before he moved to Michigan.

The Michigan conference has a number of good things going for it. in fact, Jay Galimore is here in St. Paul this weekend.

Would you like me to put in a good word for you?

oG

[Woody]

Why Olger ... Thank you. I appreciate your offer. You can certainly pass out a good word about Redwood anytime. But, I am afraid that I am not interested in being a Pastor in Michigan.

For one thing ... the weather is too cold.

Second ... the leadership there is too cold to women. No women Pastors allowed by Galimore. I suppose that puts him in good stead by your consideration.

Third ... Only COLD music is allowed by Galimore.

Fourth ... No "Cheap Grace" allowed. Only COLD HARD work.

Hey ... wait a minute ... this is sounding more and more like an extremely cold Conservative out East. Don't think one like that would be interested in a Gospel Centered Pastor. But do tell him about me.

Oh and one more problem ... There are no Redwood trees out there in Michigan. (Guess it wouldn't be a good fit.)

[nuff sed]

Posted by Redwood, "For one thing ... the weather is too cold."

and for another...Florida Conference is not hiring...........in fact they laid off over 50 staff a couple of years ago for financial reasons.

[Woody]

Posted by Redwood, "For one thing ... the weather is too cold."

and for another...Florida Conference is not hiring...........in fact they laid off over 50 staff a couple of years ago for financial reasons.

Were all 50 of them mis-handling finances?

BTW ... Any Redwood trees out there in Florida?

[carolaa]

Before our current pastor, we went through a period of changing pastors every couple of years. Some were good, many were not, and the emotional fallout of some of the dysfunction of those years is still clearing up. We were seriously wondering whether we, as a small and insignificant church, were being given all the pastors that couldn't work anywhere else, or had to be moved on from their previous positions because of some kind of mess or dysfunction.

aldona

That sounds like that last church I was in, something like 26 pastors in 50 years. Dysfunction is the right word for it. They had their M.O. down pat on how to get rid of a pastor. I'm glad the Conference is getting away from that special tradition. It's way better for the pastor and congregation to learn how to work through their differences and get along and work together. And what a huge waste of funds to be moving pastors all the time!! I know there are times when a change is needed, but 4-7 years is usually a much better tenure, imo. That gives everyone time to get over the "honeymoon" stage and deal with real life, establish some plans, and see them through.

[carolaa]

Just make sure you speak loud and carry a big stick. This may be needed for conferences that are so authoritative.

That's not how the quote goes -- you really are a troublemaker!

[carolaa]

The idea of "bi-vocational" Pastors is one that we might want to look at. And it is one that Aldona might like to suggest to her conference.

I think it can work well in some situations. Some conferences are doing that and moving more in that direction.

I think that most Pastors in the early church were "bi-vocational" were they not? We could just list the advantages. But then I guess we could list the disadvantages also.

I've never heard the term bi-vocational pastors before. Is this the same thing as a lay pastor? Or is it more similar to lay-led churches?

[Woody]

Quote:

I've never heard the term bi-vocational pastors before. Is this the same thing as a lay pastor? Or is it more similar to lay-led churches?

Hi Carolaa ... Yes. Bi-vocational Pastors are not something that all conferences are doing. And it is relatively new. But it just means that they have two professions. One is being a paid Pastor and the other could be working as a carpenter lets say. You have a church assigned to you. But you are only "expected" to put in 'X' number of hours since you also have another job outside of the conference paid job.

And No ... they are not "lay" Pastors ... They ARE Pastors and they get paid for it.

Quote:

That's not how the quote goes -- you really are a troublemaker!

I try my hardest.

[Neil D]

That's not how the quote goes -- you really are a troublemaker!

Quote:

I try my hardest.

if it an outside authority you need, I will vouch for that!

[carolaa]

Quote:

I've never heard the term bi-vocational pastors before. Is this the same thing as a lay pastor? Or is it more similar to lay-led churches?

Hi Carolaa ... Yes. Bi-vocational Pastors are not something that all conferences are doing. And it is relatively new. But it just means that they have two professions. One is being a paid Pastor and the other could be working as a carpenter lets say. You have a church assigned to you. But you are only "expected" to put in 'X' number of hours since you also have another job outside of the conference paid job.

And No ... they are not "lay" Pastors ... They ARE Pastors and they get paid for it.

In our conference they call them Pastoral Assistants. They may or may not be trained pastors, but they serve in that role part-time and get paid some kind of stipend for it.

[Woody]

Around here ... there is no one for them to assist and no one to assist them!!! They are pretty much on their own. And they don't get stipends. They get a regular salary as a regular employee. But then each conference is different. So, are all the pastors in your conference full time employees?

When my wife graduated this summer she had a conference ask her to be Bi-vocational ... but she declined.

[carolaa]

So, are all the pastors in your conference full time employees?

No, the Pastoral Assistants ARE the pastors for the churches they serve. The job title is a little confusing, I admit, because it isn't the same thing as an assistant pastor. I suppose you could say they are assisting the Conference by acting as pastors. Their stipend is based on the time they can commit, among other things, and I don't know much about that. The expectations are not as high as they are for a full-time pastor. For instance, they cannot be required to attend pastor meetings if they are also working another job.

Some of the church planters fall into this category. The Conference cannot afford to hire the number of church planters that are needed, so lay people might fill that role on a part-time basis or a regular pastor (often a brand new one) might take the job part-time with the understanding that he/she will also need to work another job. And the term part-time is probably not very accurate, because I'm sure in reality they put in many hours for part-pay. But even if they don't put in full-time hours, it is a huge responsibility for a part-time job. All of the church planters have a full-time pastor assigned to be their coach, so that helps.

[Woody]

Oh. Thank you for clarifying. I was not aware of that. And yes ... I am sure they are very dedicated people who work very long hours. Our church is very blessed to have people like that.

And thanks again. I now understand much better.

But I do think I would change the title.