Share A Pie

[Dr. Shane]

Or a cake, cookies, a special dish you made with a neighbor or friend. This is something my wife and I enjoy doing. This actually provides healing when someone has wronged you. Bake them a cake and give it to them. Build relationships with other people.

In North America, too many people just go to work, earn money, buy things in the store, go home and stay there. Not a lot of front-porch sitting like years ago. Not too many block parties where all the neighbors are invited. We, Adventist Christians, should change that. Get to know your neighbors. Invite them to your home. Share your life with them.

[Liz]

You know I tried doing this one year at Christmas. The kidlets and I baked cookies for our next door neighbors. All it did was make them feel obligated to return the favor, which wasn't our intention at all. You could tell it made them feel uncomfortable. So now we get those fruit baskets at the grocery store and put a note that says "From your neighbors" and then leave it on people's doorsteps. We will hear about the "mysterious" gift baskets from time to time, but no one knows they are from us.

This just seems to work out better for us. I think that getting to know your neighbors is almost a thing of the past, and a lot of people don't know how to respond to genuine kindness. This is just my experience of course, others may have a different POV.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I think that getting to know your neighbors is almost a thing of the past

I used to believe that too until one day I decided I was not going to believe that way any more. The way one keeps their neighbors from feeling obligated to return the favor is to give them a religious tract, book or video with the pie. That way they figure you have an ulterior motive and don't feel they need to return the favor.

[Liz]

You know I never even thought about putting a tract with those gifts. As my kids say "DUH!", now I feel stupid thinking about all those wasted opportunities.

New Year's Resolution: Be a little more proactive.

Thank you for the great suggestion.

[Woody]

I think the story of the Good Samaritan gives us some guidelines for demonstrating unselfish love to our neighbors.

I think the fact that he left money and indicated that there was more where that came from ... shows that we are to continue to love and make close friends and connections. We are not to just run shot gun and thereby love and retreat ... never to return.

We should love for loves sake ... not for religious reasons. Like separation of Church and State ... so should our acts of love be separated from our religious promotions.

Love your neighbor ... pass out religious tracks ... but don't combine them in my judgment.

[aldona]

You know I never even thought about putting a tract with those gifts. As my kids say "DUH!", now I feel stupid thinking about all those wasted opportunities.

New Year's Resolution: Be a little more proactive.

Thank you for the great suggestion.

No, no! A thousand times no! Your original gift idea was much better.

Make it clear to your neighbors that you care about them and you value their friendship, without trying to proselytize them and regardless of whether they ever convert to your religion.

That will impress them more than hundreds of tracts.

Didn't Mrs White write something once about "disinterested (meaning, without hidden agendas) benevolence"?

How would we feel if we moved into a new neighborhood and the first thing we received from our neighbors was a gift with a tract?

There are already enough people and organizations in the world that pretend to "want to be your friend" so that they can push religion. The secular public is rightly suspicious about such motives.

The time for sharing faith will come later, when you have established a friendship in which you talk about deep things naturally and comfortably.

aldona

[Dr. Shane]

"Proselytize" is not a bad word. If fact, it is a mystery how one can be a Christian and not proselytize. When the fire burns within us, we have to tell others. Furthermore, Adventism is the most precious and beautiful religion on the globe today. Presented properly, sharing it is itself a greater act of love than sharing a pie or home-baked cookies. There is a reason Adventism is growing faster than any other religion in Latin America and much of Africa and yet shrinking in the western world. A big part of it is because western Adventists are ashamed of the gospel and afraid to offend others with it.

Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. (Mathew 28:19, 20)

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

We should love for loves sake ... not for religious reasons. Like separation of Church and State ... so should our acts of love be separated from our religious promotions.

What kind of thinking is this? If one doesn't believe their religion is a religion of love, why are they affiliated with it? And if it is a religion of love, than sharing it with others is an act of love.

Should I save a man's life so he can have a few more years but let his soul perish? To do so is hardly an act of love. Why save a man from a burning house so that he can later burn in hell?

[aldona]

As Christians, too many of us have come to believe that an act of love or unselfish service to another person is not a religious act unless it is accompanied by something overtly religious like a tract, Bible study or prayer.

Jesus did not say that the world would know that we are His disciples by the love we have for one another AND the religious literature we distribute.

We can see how Jesus views acts of loving (and dare I say, "disinterested") service by how he commends those who feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those who are sick or in prison, or even give a cup of cold water to someone who is thirsty.

These acts are seen as being performed for Christ Himself. Not once are they accompanied by giving the recipient a Bible study, a lecture on how to be saved, or inviting them to church.

Let us for a moment forget about our perspective and try to put ourselves in the shoes of our neighbor.

We might think that "sharing our religion is an act of love", but to the average non-religious person, having a stranger come up to them and start telling them about their religion is often quite the opposite.

How does it make us feel when someone of a different religion does a good deed for us and at the same time hands us a tract or invites us to a religious event? What would go through your mind if your Buddhist, Muslim, or Jehovah's Witness neighbor did this for you? Does it make you feel that they genuinely care about you? Or would you cynically put it to one side of your mind as a piece of recruiting propaganda?

If we show kindness and hospitality to our neighbors, we will create a genuine bond of friendship, and opportunities to share our faith will follow naturally in great abundance. My husband and I have seen this first-hand, with our neighbors as well as work colleagues. We could never have reached that level of deep discussion if we had started off first with the evangelistic efforts before our neighbors got to know us as people.

No offence to you, Shane, and I hear what you're saying, but I would like to completely turn your statement around and say that I believe that...

"Sharing our LOVE is an act of RELIGION."

aldona

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I agree with Aldona.

[Woody]

Quote:

"Sharing our LOVE is an act of RELIGION."

You hit it on the head. Exactly. And so we don't have to say ... "brought to you by the Seventh day Adventist Church."

[David Koot]

Redwood, I could not agree more about sharing our love. The term I believe is 'disinterested benevolence.' We reach out because we care, because we are interested in them as people. We don't want to slip a mickey in their drink, so to speak. At the same time, if we are doing things in the community, it is important to identify who we are and who the sponsoring organization is. Thus, in the outreach I oversee, we hand out informational sheets that explain what we are doing and the services we are offering. They are VERY well received. But we teach our people to be careful to avoid pressuring or inviting them to church, unless the people ask or express interest--which often does happen.

Dave

[Woody]

Quote:

'disinterested benevolence.'

Thank you. I knew I could count on you for the legal term. That is what I was after and I think Aldona also.

And YES. I agree with all that you have said. Information is fine as to who we are. But we need to have the right motive displayed as to why we do the acts of love. Otherwise it will be clear that we are trying to push an agenda .... like our doctrines and our church.

[Amelia]

Quote:

As Christians, too many of us have come to believe that an act of love or unselfish service to another person is not a religious act unless it is accompanied by something overtly religious like a tract, Bible study or prayer.

Jesus did not say that the world would know that we are His disciples by the love we have for one another AND the religious literature we distribute.

I agree also

[Neil D]

Quote:

We might think that "sharing our religion is an act of love", but to the average non-religious person, having a stranger come up to them and start telling them about their religion is often quite the opposite.

How does it make us feel when someone of a different religion does a good deed for us and at the same time hands us a tract or invites us to a religious event? What would go through your mind if your Buddhist, Muslim, or Jehovah's Witness neighbor did this for you? Does it make you feel that they genuinely care about you? Or would you cynically put it to one side of your mind as a piece of recruiting propaganda?

If we show kindness and hospitality to our neighbors, we will create a genuine bond of friendship,

Shane, I know that you mean well, and in actuality, I truely think you do....but to put in a tract in a good deed is to spoil the good deed. The good deed now becomes a fish hook with bait on it and all the wise fish in the pond know when to avoid that nice looking piece of fruit. I was once told that the 144,000 were people "without fishbait". And I've always known fishbait to have hooks......and if I had my druthers, I would like my church to be known as a church of people without fishbait.....

That means for us to do the hard thing...actually do good deeds to people for the sake of the people...not to get them into church, but because they are someone [ a human being]that needs help. Guess what? if you actually help someone, they become a friend....a geniune friend...And friends listen to friends better than strangers do...

Okay, that's all I wanted to say...Probably made a mess of it...but the potiental is astronomical...Aldona is right...

[Dr. Shane]

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As Christians, too many of us...

Christians are guilty of a whole host of sins. Adventists can quickly point out many of them. So let's not lump Adventists, with our religion of love, in with other Christians religion of everlasting hellfire and condemnation.

Quote:

Jesus did not say that the world would know that we are His disciples by the love we have for one another AND the religious literature we distribute.

In context. Jesus was talking about nonbelievers identifying believers by the love believers have for other believers. This is not talking about our love for nonbelievers.

Quote:

How does it make us feel when someone of a different religion does a good deed for us and at the same time hands us a tract or invites us to a religious event?

Impressed!

Quote:

"Sharing our LOVE is an act of RELIGION."

Let's say a doctor comes across a hungry man that has cancer. It indeed would be a kind deed for the doctor to feed the hungry man. I am sure everyone would agree that feeding the hungry man would be a kind deed. But it would be neglect for the doctor to do nothing about the cancer.

The biggest problem with nonbelievers is that they don't know Christ. Whatever other problems they may be dealing with, those other problems pale in comparison to their need for Christ. To befriend them and not tell them about Christ is to neglect their biggest need of all.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

to put in a tract in a good deed is to spoil the good deed.

This type of attitude is why the church in North America is not growing. In Latin America, the Adventist believers can't stop sharing their faith with their friends, family, co-workers and anyone that will listen to them.

Sharing our faith with others is in and of itself an act of love. If I give a tract or a DVD to someone at the same time I give them a batch of freshly baked cookies I am actually doing TWO acts of love. And guess what. When that person doesn't respond to the tract or video and I continue to give them more pies and cakes and they continue not to respond, they start to figure out that there is no fish hook.

I speak from actual experience. I give baked goods to my neighbors quite often. I also give them religious tracts, books and videos. Guess what? They give me fresh fruit and baked goods too and if they are offended by my faith, they have never told me so. Neither of them have ever come to my church but I keep on giving and giving and giving. I have lived here now for over three years with the same neighbors and I think they have figured out by now that my giving is not dependent on their response to my faith.

[David Koot]

Shane, I must disagree with you. I have made a point, over the last fifteen or more years, of trying different approaches. I have been able to compare the results. Remember the principle: "Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people." Jesus first mingled with people, showed interest and sympathy, won their confidence. THEN He said, 'Follow Me.' The helping ministry is the ENTERING WEDGE. Don't try to mix the two. Your neighbors may be polite, but from my observation, better results can result from simply showing interest and doing kind deeds, without the religious literature. The key is following up on the open door, as they become comfortable with you. That can happen in conversation. DON'T make a tract the first mention of religion. WAIT until the subject comes up somehow in personal interaction. THEN you can mention something you have read which you would be glad to share with them IF THEY LIKE.

Dave

[David Koot]

Incidentally, I have experienced phenomenal results. In communities where pastors and others say evangelism doesn't work, THIS WORKS. Many of the people I use this approach DO respond, do come to church, etc. But I had to separate the religious content and hold off on that until the door opens.

Dave

[Dr. Shane]

Phenomenal results are being seen in Latin America. The members there just can't stop talking about their wonderful Lord Jesus.

Now I am not suggesting that we must share a tract or our religion when we share baked goods with our neighbors. I am suggesting that there is nothing wrong if we do. I did not share religious literature with my neighbors at first, but eventually I did and still do.

A problem in North America is that many Adventists are 1) embarrassed of the Adventist faith and 2) afraid of offending others. In Latin America, the believers do not have a problem with either of these.

In this very thread it was suggested that we go visit men in prison and NOT share our faith with them! And after that point was made others agreed! I have done prison ministry work and don't know a single person doing it that doesn't share their faith. We don't go in there to talk about sports or the weather. The only difference between nonbelievers in prison and nonbelievers on the outside is the bars. These people are going to miss out on the riches of heaven if someone doesn't love them enough to share Christ with them.

If a see a man in the road and know a truck is about to hit him, why should I give him some cookies and not mention that he ought to get out of the street before the truck comes?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

If a see a man in the road and know a truck is about to hit him, why should I give him some cookies and not mention that he ought to get out of the street before the truck comes?

Pull him out of the way and give him a pie

[Neil D]

Quote:

A problem in North America is that many Adventists are 1) embarrassed of the Adventist faith and 2) afraid of offending others. In Latin America, the believers do not have a problem with either of these.

You speak foolishly...or you have lost touch with Americans...

this is UTTER non-sense...

[Woody]

Our life is the best tract and witness.

Quote:

Romans 15:2 " Let every one of us please [his] neighbour for [his] good to edification."

This IS North America. And here ... most are suspicious of the "bait" that Neil was talking about. If you want to reach a North American ... you have to win their confidence and show you genuinely care for then and their lives ... not just trying to promote a certain religion.

Be their friend ... they will then come to you when they are ready to receive the Gospel.

All the tracts that you give them BEFORE they are ready will just be a waste of good trees.

[David Koot]

All the tracts that you give them BEFORE they are ready will just be a waste of good trees.

True, but the damage is far worse than that. Once you spring the tracts on them, barriers go up big-time. You've burned your bridges. They will now be on their guard.

Dave

[Woody]

You got that right.

Once you make friends ... and demonstrate undefiled LOVE ... then they will trust you and come to you when THEY are ready.

That has been MY experience. But I do appreciate Shane and his devotion to God and church. I am sure God can bless either approach. But I am just speaking from my personal experience.