OK so what about COLOSSIANS 2:16

[Stan]

COLOSSIANS 2:16

Let no man therefore judge (condemn) you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come.

What does Paul mean by this statement?

I will be giving a follow up question after there are some posts..

[Woody]

COLOSSIANS 2:16

Let no man therefore judge (condemn) you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come.

What does Paul mean by this statement?

I will be giving a follow up question after there are some posts..

We are not judged by our works. We are not judged by who WE are.

We are judged by WHO we know. The Robe is the only thing that saves me. It is the life and death of Jesus that that makes this possible.

PS, And by the way ... No man is to judge.

[Beryl]

Quote:

COLOSSIANS 2:13-16

The answer comes in Col. 2:13,14. Christ nailed to the cross all of the regulations dealing with the tabernacle service, because, when He died, He had fulfilled what they were looking forward to, and therefore they were useless.

By His death, Christ cancelled the written code with its regulations . The only written code with regulations was the instructions dealing with the sanctuary service.

The KJV uses the expression "blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us..", and, if I can be excused for using just one Greek word [shudder!] -- kierographon -- which legally meant "an acknowledgment of debt". The Expositors Greek Testament describes this as "a bond given by the debtor in writing".

The RSV quotes this text as "having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this He set aside, nailing it to the Cross."

The NRSV has this "Erasing the record that stood against us...."

And this is just what Jesus offered us at the Cross, He provided the means for forgiveness of sins to ANYBODY who accepted His life in their stead.

Verse 16 is still referring to the sanctuary service, which, as verse 17 says, "These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality however, is found in Christ."

And for that we can thank God.

Beryl

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

COLOSSIANS 2:16

Let no man therefore judge (condemn) you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come.

What does Paul mean by this statement?

I will be giving a follow up question after there are some posts..

We are not judged by our works. We are not judged by who WE are.

We are judged by WHO we know. The Robe is the only thing that saves me. It is the life and death of Jesus that that makes this possible.

"And the dead were judged according to their works." Rev 20:12 NKJ

"And they were judged, each one according to his works. Rev 20:13. NKJ

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." 2 Cor 5:10 NKJ

"And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct.....but with the precious blood of Christ..." 1 Pet 1:17-19 NKJ.

"I, the LORD, search the heart,

I test the mind,

Even to give every man according to his ways,

According to the fruit of his doings." Jer 17:10 NKJ

Gerry

[Stan]

I was hoping someone would defend the weekly Sabbath :)

[Woody]

Quote:

And the dead were judged according to their works." Rev 20:12 NKJ

Only the wicked are judged by THEIR works. The Righteous are judged by the works of Jesus.

Comemon Gerry

[Gerr]

Quote:

And the dead were judged according to their works." Rev 20:12 NKJ

Only the wicked are judged by THEIR works. The Righteous are judged by the works of Jesus.

Comemon Gerry

"For WE must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that EACH ONE may receive the things done in the body, according to what HE has Done." 2 Cor 5:10 NKJ.

"The LORD will judge His people." Heb 10:30 NKJ.

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? Now

"If the righteous one is scarcely saved,

Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Pe 4:17,18 NKJ.

Saved by grace through faith, but judged by works because, as the Apostle James says, works is the evidence of what sort of faith a believer has. And -

"When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man's best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit. But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him, and yet are disloyal to His father's commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easygoing, accommodating, crossless religion. But Jesus says, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." 1 SM 382

When our hearts are in that condition, THEN, God sees not the imperfections of our works, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus that covers it.

Gerry

[olger]

Excellent points Gerry1. There is a short-circuited version of the gospel out there, robbed of responsibility.

Gerry2

[Woody]

Quote:

God sees not the imperfections of our works, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus that covers it.

Exactly. Good Point Gerry.

[Woody]

Quote:

I was hoping someone would defend the weekly Sabbath

Why does it need defending?

The weekly Sabbath was initiated at Creation as an everlasting covenant. It was written in stone under the heading of Remember. Jesus kept the Sabbath. We are Christians are we not? And .. We are told that we will be keeping Sabbath in heaven. So, it does not need defending.

It is ...

Obvious.

[nuff sed]

Will the Sabbath in Heaven and the New Earth be kept only by us or will the inhabitants of other worlds also observe it...? If it is the memorial of Creation why should They keep it?

[John317]

Quote:

And the dead were judged according to their works." Rev 20:12 NKJ

Only the wicked are judged by THEIR works. The Righteous are judged by the works of Jesus.

Our lives demonstrate if we have genuine, living faith in Christ or if we have a dead faith. The works of faith of the righteous are judged to determine what rewards they receive, and the lives of those who made a false profession of faith in Christ are judged and their names removed from the Book of Life.. This is one of the purposes of the Pre-advent Judgment.

[Robert]

"When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man's best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit." Gerry

You yourself do not even believe this, so please don't quote it!

What a joke!

Rob

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

And the dead were judged according to their works." Rev 20:12 NKJ

Only the wicked are judged by THEIR works. The Righteous are judged by the works of Jesus.

Our lives demonstrate if we have genuine, living faith in Christ or if we have a dead faith. The works of faith of the righteous are judged to determine what rewards they receive, and the lives of those who made a false profession of faith in Christ are judged and their names removed from the Book of Life.. This is one of the purposes of the Pre-advent Judgment.

Glory for me! What an exercise in the flesh we have here John....

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

"When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man's best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit." Gerry

You yourself do not even believe this, so please don't quote it!

What a joke!

Rob

ROFL

Good one Rob.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

"When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man's best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit." Gerry

You yourself do not even believe this, so please don't quote it!

What a joke!

Rob

"When it is in the HEART to OBEY God, when EFFORTS are put forth to this end, JESUS ACCEPTS THIS DISPOSITION AND EFFORT AS MAN'S BEST SERVICE, and HE MAKES UP FOR THE DEFICIENCY WITH HIS OWN DIVINE MERIT. But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him, and yet are DISLOYAL to His Father's COMMANDMENT." 1 SM 382

Gerry

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: John317

Our lives demonstrate if we have genuine' date=' living faith in Christ or if we have a dead faith. The works of faith of the righteous are judged to determine what rewards they receive, and the lives of those who made a false profession of faith in Christ are judged and their names removed from the Book of Life.. This is one of the purposes of the Pre-advent Judgment.

[/quote']

Glory for me! What an exercise in the flesh we have here John....

Shall we go on sinning/living in flesh so that we can show how rotten we are so that we can demonstrate how gracious God is? "God forbid!!!! May it never be!!!" See Rom 6:1,2. But if that is what you want to do, Rob, that is certainly your God-given prerogative.

And why do you think that the good works that believers do is for their own glory when Jesus clearly said, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see you GOOD WORKS and GLORIFY YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN?" Mt 5:16 NKJ

Gerry

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

You yourself do not even believe this, so please don't quote it!

What a joke!

Rob [/quote']

"When it is in the HEART to OBEY God, when EFFORTS are put forth to this end, JESUS ACCEPTS THIS DISPOSITION AND EFFORT AS MAN'S BEST SERVICE, and HE MAKES UP FOR THE DEFICIENCY WITH HIS OWN DIVINE MERIT. But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him, and yet are DISLOYAL to His Father's COMMANDMENT." 1 SM 382

Gerry

As I said you really don't believe this. You believe in perfection. This is clear from your non-stop legalistic view....Who are you kidding? Not me!

[jasd]

QR frame:

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

How does the following compare with the above judgement of the Jerusalem council?

KJV Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

YLT Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,

(an holy day in the above text is also translated as festival, feast day, etc)

Of interest, or not:

Lenski (commentary on Colossians) says: "misleading conceptions are introduced when the word (cheirographon) is thought to mean a debtor's bond." He says the word has been found 13 times, "five were debtor's bonds, two concerned deposits made, two were labor contracts, one gave authority to act, three were business agreements."

[Ron Amnsn]

When interpreting Colossians 2:16 Adventists tend to focus on whether the word "Sabbaths" refers to weekly Sabbaths or annual Sabbaths without looking at the context to determine whether Paul is encouraging the believers to disregard those Sabbaths or encouraging the believers to keep those Sabbaths.

Most people assume that the believers in Colossia wanted to disregard the Sabbaths, but were being judged (condemned) by legalistic Jews who were teaching them to observe the Old Testament law. However, the context of Colosians 2 clearly shows that those who were judging the Colossian believers were not teaching from Scripture at all. Paul says they were teaching "philosophy", "empty deception", "tradition of men", "elementary principals of the world", and "self-made religion". Contrast that with what Paul says about the Old Testament "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (2 Tim 3:16-17)

The context of Colossians 2 shows that the believers were probably coming under the influence of the popular pagan philosophy of asceticism, which taught that in order to be "spiritual" a person had to punish the "physical" body. Ascetics would have viewed God's Sabbaths and Feasts as gluttonous and sensual events and would have judged those who followed the Scriptural Sabbaths as "unspiritual". Paul, on the other hand, was encouraging the believers to continue observing God's Sabbaths because they were powerful object lessons revealing the secrets of the gospel of Christ and the Spiritual realm.

If we try to interpret Colossians 2 as an argument against Old Testament practices, it becomes a disjointed and contradictory treatise. However, if you read the chapter watching for the clever ways that Paul contrasts the words pertaining to the physical ("body", "touch", "flesh", "substance", etc.) with the words pertaining to the spiritual ("faith", "mystery", "spirit", "shadow") the chapter is a powerful discourse against asceticism, showing that both Christ and God's Sabbaths are superior.

[Ron Amnsn]

The answer comes in Col. 2:13,14. Christ nailed to the cross all of the regulations dealing with the tabernacle service, because, when He died, He had fulfilled what they were looking forward to, and therefore they were useless.

By His death, Christ cancelled the written code with its regulations . The only written code with regulations was the instructions dealing with the sanctuary service.

The KJV uses the expression "blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us..", and, if I can be excused for using just one Greek word [shudder!] -- kierographon -- which legally meant "an acknowledgment of debt". The Expositors Greek Testament describes this as "a bond given by the debtor in writing".

The RSV quotes this text as "having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this He set aside, nailing it to the Cross."

The NRSV has this "Erasing the record that stood against us...."

And this is just what Jesus offered us at the Cross, He provided the means for forgiveness of sins to ANYBODY who accepted His life in their stead.

Verse 16 is still referring to the sanctuary service, which, as verse 17 says, "These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality however, is found in Christ."

Beryl,

I hope you don't mind if I disagree a bit with some of what you've written here.

In the first paragraph you seem to be saying that the phrase "handwriting of the ordinances" from Col. 2:14 refers to the "regulations dealing with the tabernacle service". But later you correctly point out that kierographon (handwriting) actually means "an acknowledgment of debt", which the various sources you provided render as:

• a bond given by the debtor in writing (Expositors Greek Testament)

• the bond which stood against us with its legal demands (RSV)

• the record that stood against us (NRSV)

I'm wondering how you can say, "Christ nailed to the cross all of the regulations dealing with the tabernacle service" when the verse doesn't actually refer to God's Old Testament instructions at all.

This becomes really clear when you look up the usage of the word which the KJV translates as "ordinances". In Greek it is dogmasin. In the Greek Old Testament of Paul's day (the Septuagint) the word dogmasin was never used to refer to any of God's laws or instructions. It was used only to refer to man-made decrees, rules and documents. If Paul had intended to say that "the regulations dealing with the tabernacle service" had been nailed to the cross, don't you think he would have used one of the Greek words that was actually used in the existing Greek Old Testament to refer to those specific regulations?

I think the meaning of Col. 2:14 becomes clear when we go back to the Gospels and read about what was actually nailed to the cross. There were only two things nailed to that cross-- Jesus himself and a handwritten placard that specified his "crime". In Col. 2:14 Paul is talking about the placard that belongs on my own cross – the legal certificate that lists my guilt and my debt according to the law. It should have been nailed above my head at my execution. By taking the placard listing my crimes and nailing it to his own cross, Jesus received the just punishment for those crimes under the law. Justice has been served. The law has been satisfied (not abolished). It's awesome!

In Matt. 5:18 Jesus said that no part of the written law would disappear "by any means". If that is true (which it is), then even if the Law had been "nailed to the cross" (which it wasn't), even that would not cause the regulations of the law to disappear. (Did being nailed to the cross cause Jesus to disappear or become irrelevant or useless?)

[jasd]

Is it possible to parse Col 2:14-16 without its corollary Eph 2:14-16 (or even that of Rom 7:4-7)?

Epistle to the Gentiles of Ephesus (Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh,):

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

What did the figurative “the middle wall of partition [between...]” signify? ... “for to make in himself of twain one new man,” (Eph 2:15). Is this not a reflection of there now being ‘neither Jew nor Gentile’? where before, the middle wall of “The Law of Commandments contained/and in ordinances” – separated the circumcised from the uncircumcised.

Note: the “commandments” and the “ordinances” were abolished. Abolished is abolished; and, Sabbath-keeping is a requirement of both the “commandments” and “ordinances”.

[LifeHiscost]

Note: the “commandments” and the “ordinances” were abolished. Abolished is abolished; and, Sabbath-keeping is a requirement of both the “commandments” and “ordinances”.

Alright, let's take this logic into practical every day practice.

I belong to a territorial gang in LA. Someone of different uniform colors is walking belligerently in our gang's territory. He should know the rules of the game but seems to be flaunting his fearlessness in spite of those rules. Seeing him from some blocks away and recognizing the foreign colors, my blood begins to boil at his belligerence. Knowing the law has been abolished, I pick up my high powered rifle with its scope and proceed to

put the crosshairs on his head.

Since the law has been done away, or abolished, what would the moral default be to allow the trespasser the right to continue living?

"The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer,But the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.

" Proverbs 15:28 NASB

Regards!

[jasd]

>>"The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer,But the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.

" Proverbs 15:28 NASB<<

If the above was selected and directed to me, I accept with good grace. If, however,

it was a comment upon your attempt at edification - I do not agree that what you posted was evil per se: mebbe misconstrued but not evil.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man

Given Ephesians 2:15, I note again,

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Note: the “commandments” and the “ordinances” were abolished. Abolished is abolished; and, Sabbath-keeping is a requirement of both the “commandments” and “ordinances”.

Do you not agree that "Abolished" is "abolished"? or do you subscribe to a variant reading? If so,

would you mind proffering that reading from a Biblical viewpoint?

[LifeHiscost]

Do you not agree that "Abolished" is "abolished"? or do you subscribe to a variant reading? If so,

would you mind proffering that reading from a Biblical viewpoint?

I probably see "abolished' with the same understanding as yourself. Therefore being edified with an answer to what the default might be in order to save the man in the crosshairs of my rifle, would help me understand the person looking for solutions to problems that could be far easier solved by just laying down the rifle because they/I believe in "Thou shalt not murder".

As to Ephesians 2:15 including the ten commandments written in stone by the finger of God, in the same light as statutes and ordinances, reveals no in depth logic. If it were we could logically interprete this next text to read 'Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments and not keeping His commandments and not keeping His commandments'.

"Beware that you do not forget the LORD your God by not keeping His commandments and His ordinances and His statutes which I am commanding you today Deut 8:11 NASB

Perhaps it would help if I explained my own perceptions of the Word I understand as given by God.

His commandments are not demandments as most look at commandments. If that were the case, where would free will for humans be"? While consequences are different, depending on whether or if we follow God's instructions, one always has free will to make the decision for themselves, once being delivered from the bondage of the prince of darkness.

The ordinances and statutes were written on paper by Moses, to be affective until Jesus came to release man from them as there was no longer any need for something to point forward to a coming Savior.

"....having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

" Colossians 2:14 NASB

Tell me, which commandment would you consider a decree against us if freedom were allowed by men to keep them as God has instructed, and in what way would they be against us?

Regards!