Theater Experience

[Woody]

While I was growing up ... the theater was considered evil.

I accepted this and thus ... only went to a theater one time ... when I was in a country in which the SDA culture accepted it. The movie was Star Wars. I didn't enjoy myself at all.

I still have not returned to the Theater.

But now ... I wonder ... is this still an Adventist thought. OR ... Do we now consider it OK to attend the theater?

Has the theater changed and become less objectionable? Did Ellen White just refer to the wrong types of entertainment at the theater ... or was ALL theater attendence wrong?

Would love to hear the thoughts of those who do attend the theater. Since I have not been to one in thirty years ... I can't really speak to the issue.

[cricket]

In Pathfinders, we still teach about going to the theater as something that could be objectionable. I've been told that the theaters in EGW's time were a lot different than now. Dirty, dusty dark places with drinking, smoking and lewd behavior. Also, the theaters she spoke of were more of the vaudeville type, not the motion pictures.

Theaters now are much cleaner, safer environments.

The content of the silver screen is still objectionable.

[Woody]

Thanks Cricket.

That helps me.

[Woody]

I think I have figured it out.

The lewd behavior used to be IN the audience. But now it is on the screen.??

Actually I guess that is better because you can now choose which movies you want and avoid the lewdness. Before the lewdness was always there IN the theater?

Am I close?

[Liz]

The lewd behavior used to be IN the audience. But now it is on the screen.??

Actually I guess that is better because you can now choose which movies you want and avoid the lewdness. Before the lewdness was always there IN the theater?

I think you are right. We grew up going to the movies it wasn't that big of a deal. Mom and dad always told us which ones we could and could not see. There were a lot more G and PG rated movies back then too.

Now though, I hate going to the movies. The chairs are so close together that if anyone sits behind you they are constantly kicking your seat; and we have the state of the arts stadium seating in all of our movie theaters. Then, of course, there is the price of the treats, $4.50 for a small popcorn, $4.50 for a small carbonated beverage, $5.00 if you want a small bottled water. Then, of course, the price of the movie itself, $5.00 per person before 6:00p.m. $7.50 per person after. It is quite possible to drop $50 bucks on a show for the four of us, just to sit down and have someone kick the back of your seat for two hours.

Therefore, we rent most of our movies.

[Dr. Shane]

The theaters in Ellen White's day were live theaters. Actors and actress did have a reputation of being of low repute - many still do today - kind of like circus workers. Today, many in the entertainment industry are no more fit to be role models for society than they were in the days of Ellen White.

The movie theater is expensive. It is not a good activity for people to bond. For example, a family that goes fishing, hiking or visiting the zoo together are going to interact with each other. Going to the theater is a passive experience that does not promote bonding. So it may not be the best choice of how to spend leisure time.

Movies themselves are no more objectionable in the theater than they are on the television. Yet, when we go to view a movie in the theater - - - Hollywood knows about it. No one knows what we watch on our TVs, except God and those we tell. There are firms that compile ratings, like Nielson, but these they get from voluntary information. Our TV sets are not interactive (although that may change with IPTV). So the TV does not send messages back to broadcasters. This is important because when we go see a movie in the theater we are casting a vote for that movie. We are sending a message to Hollywood to make more like it. Hollywood doesn't get that message every time we turn on our TV. So if we are going to go to a movie in the theater, we are doing more than just watching a movie. We are encouraging the industry to make more like it.

I attend movies in the theater only when they are the kind I want Hollywood to produce more of. If they are somewhat questionable, I will wait until they come out on DVD.

[Neil D]

While I was growing up ... the theater was considered evil.

[snip]

Has the theater changed and become less objectionable? Did Ellen White just refer to the wrong types of entertainment at the theater ... or was ALL theater attendence wrong?

Would love to hear the thoughts of those who do attend the theater. Since I have not been to one in thirty years ... I can't really speak to the issue.

Are you sure you want ME to tell you what I think, Redwood?

Me having done acting within our church, and directed plays? Me being a person who goes to theater and the movies? [there is a difference, ya know..]

I have looked at EGW comments on theater...IMO, to be honest, there is not one single comment that cant be explained FOR drama/acting/theater. What is telling to me about her comments is found in a historical reference to her granddaughter being in a play...She critises the play...for the purpose of making it better not eliminating it.

So what is she saying with all those negative comments? IMO, she is saying "be careful what you look at!" Let's face it, porno falls into the catagory of theater [an extreme case that we can all agree on, I hope], no matter what some may say. And every one of those comments of EGWs on bad drama would be laid at the user's doorstep and applicable...Get my drift?

But today, most of us SDAs [i don't know, maybe Dave is a closet R rated movie junkie] go to movies and generally look for "g" rated or "pg-13" rated movies. A few of us [me included] go to the "R" rated movies because we have filters in place that filter out the objectionable material...I know that is hard to believe, but it is true...And some don't have that ability. [usually these people can't believe that there are some of us who have filters, and usually point out self-righteously that all of Hollywood is the devil's playground and we all are working actively against Christ-not true]....

Ok, having said that, I also need to say, that all people who choose to go to the movies [even those of us who have filters] need a set of personal standards to go watch. Personally, I abhor horror flicks, and the gory stuff...However, action films are ok with me, but I get a bit bothered with some language. That is why there is those little known things called "ratings"...They HELP me to decide on the film...but I also go to places like http://www.rottentomatoes.com/ or http://us.imdb.com/ and I look at the critics who write on the movie of choice....GOOD good good info there....And usually, when I review thier comments, I have a pretty good idea that I will enjoy the movie....

....or I wait for it to come out on DVD.....

[Neil D]

One more thing....I forgot to tell you about LIVE theater....

You know that I live is Southern Oregon...home of the Shakespearan Festival...There are Caborre Cafes, and other play stages spin offs as well....

This is a totally different experience.

In movies, you are seeing everything thru the directors eyes...No choice there...but live theater allows you to see what YOU want to see.....and sometimes that is really interesting...

It is also more expensive...at $25-75 per ticket it can get rather expensive...And while we have, in live theater, seating similar to the movies, Cabboret [sp] have TABLES and usually involve singing and food....Some theaters are called "dinner theaters" where food is served and you will have the drama....

It is usually well worth going to see a play at least once per year....You learn soo much....

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

A few of us [me included] go to the "R" rated movies because we have filters in place that filter out the objectionable material...I know that is hard to believe, but it is true...

I think most neurologists would disagree with that statement. I think the Bible offers the best advice.

"I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me." (Psalms 101:3)

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things" (Philippians 4:8)

[Dr. Shane]

I really enjoy the live theater. However when I have went to live theater productions and there is swearing and cussing it seems even more offensive to me than when I hear it in the movies. So I am very selective in the live theater productions I go to. Normally those put on by the local high schools are safe.

[Woody]

I really enjoy the live theater. However when I have went to live theater productions and there is swearing and cussing it seems even more offensive to me than when I hear it in the movies. So I am very selective in the live theater productions I go to. Normally those put on by the local high schools are safe.

Good Comments here Shane. I've been to some out-door plays. And it really turned me off to hear some of the language. So much that I just vowed not to return.

I do think that some can have filters for certain things. But I am just not able to get past seeing sexual influences and immoral situations ... and suggestions. Also ... the language sticks in my mind and makes me feel sick for days.

No Thank You.

[Dr. Shane]

Most people in the church that watch objectionable programming believe that the objectionable parts of the programming will not affect them because they know it is wrong. However the more we expose ourselves to evil, the less objectionable it becomes. Neurologically the information we expose to our senses is going to be stored in our minds. In order to block it we would need to have a neurological means to stop the information seen by our eyes or heard by our ears from being transmitted to our brains. I don't know how that can be done in a healthy individual.

[Neil D]

I really enjoy the live theater. However when I have went to live theater productions and there is swearing and cussing it seems even more offensive to me than when I hear it in the movies. So I am very selective in the live theater productions I go to. Normally those put on by the local high schools are safe.

[Woody]

Good point about filters Neil. I think we all filter out some things in our minds. And we are each different so not all may have a good filter system.

But, I can also see Shane's point. I do believe that we need to be careful.

I suspect that you have a good system of "selective hearing". But not all do. When I hear bad language ... I know that my system does not opperate well.

[Dr. Shane]

Men tend to be single-focus orientated. Women tend to be multi-task orientated. Men tend to have "selective hearing" when they are involved in a task and someone speaks to them. For example, a man is fixing a car, reading a book or watching TV and someone says something to him. The man may be so focused on what he is doing that he doesn't hear the other person speaking to him.

That is quite different than the claim that someone can block audio or visual stimuli from reaching the brain and thus not affecting them either consciously or subconsciously.

[Neil D]

Quote:

That is quite different than the claim that someone can block audio or visual stimuli from reaching the brain and thus not affecting them either consciously or subconsciously.

Ok, this is my last example, Shane, as I don't want to hi-jack the thread....

Ever have one of those "Ah-Ha" moments when you were involved in a situation and when reflecting upon it, you said "Oh, THAT's what he meant"? You took it all in, but you filtered it...Or you saw a car accident, but didn't remember the some aspect of the car crash? Same thing...You filter it...

We have lots of information going to our brains all the time. We don't consciously rattle off in our heads, air temperature=86.6 degrees, wind velocity=1.2 knots ,Urine level=adequate, breathing in, sun brightness=too bright, need sunglasses....We don't rattle it off because we filter the information...So, it is not inconceivable to filter out some information that we take in.....

[Pearly]

Hey Redwood. I think it is still a good idea to shun theaters. However I know a lot of Adventists do attend. When I was a young guy in the 30's, and 40's my parents took me to the movies on Saturday nights. The Movies were not so bad as some are now. I liked Westerners... Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, etc. My dad was not a church member and my mother felt that movies was something that we as a family could attend and keep my father from the BARS!

In my opinion I thing the denomination did not always use good realistic reasons for some of these things. Even when I would go to movies by myself in my youth, I went in the theater and kept to myself and was not under the evil influence of anybody if it was there.

Too many times Adventists isolate themselves and only associate and talk to church members. I think we need to associate with the community in which we live and share the good things that we know with one another. Of course the big thing in the church where my membership is.... Is to help those in need in our community and we have loadd of ministries based on that idea. We also feed the homeless people... usually around 125 on Tuesdays. There is several of us who answer the questions of the people when they ask. And at present have several of them attending church. I am friends with a group of them and eat my lunch with them on Tuesdays.

Blessings,

Pearly

[Woody]

Pearly ... you have made some very good points here. Sensible. And common sense is very much appreciated here on CA.

[fccool]

As somebody who does work in film industry I would discourage Christian people from going to movie theaters. I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but I am a purist (not puritan) when it comes to issue of film and I think it would shock many of my adventist friends which films are at the top of the list and which ones are at the bottom. But since we are on the subject I'd like to make a couple of point here which I have struggled with and still struggling constantly.

1) Hollywood exists for one thing alone and it is being money producing entity. Some of the people participating do care about fine art of cinema, but people who pull the strings at the top do not. All they care is about bottom line. There are exceptions such as Robert Redford and likes who have their agendas, but nevertheless... eventually it is all about you paying money for a film and then selling you more than equal amount of product placement. Is it justifiable to spend a 100 million dollars to create an illusion of reality that only lasts 2 hours? It's up for you to decide as some of our military gear cost more for one unit.

2) Movies today are pushing the limits on violence, sex, and injected consumerism propaganda. It is funny to watch some movies as these are 2 hour commercials for products to sell to you and your kids when you walk out of the movie theater. Your children are targeted the most because they are weak when it comes to "filtering" things out.

3) Movies produce artificial class of celebrities which then are used to once again push products, and create environment of useless trivia around them. As the song goes... these are people who never was and never will be. But they are in our minds... smart, beautiful, role models... while their real lives lay in ruin. No matter how hard you work at it, it is hard to filter that out.

4) There's plenty of pornography and violence in the Bible. Some of the Biblical scenes if ever reenacted on film would be rated XXX and snuff. The point is that there is time and place for this stuff, but if you don't know when it is... then don't start picking your films. I though that FightClub and American History X are perfect illustrations of what I am talking about. These are not violence for the sake of violence. And if you can in fact understand what the writer is trying to say, you may walk away learning something about yourself and others around you.

Unfortunately, these kinds of films are very few as most are entertainment for the money spent with no underlined agenda.

5) Most of the Christian films failed miserably at what these are trying to do and end up preaching to the choir, as the choir is the only ones that are watching. And this is what I've struggled the most. I've just finished working on a updated episode of animation project for kids as a producer and a TD ( www.tailsfromtheark.com ), and as Christians we excel in this area (Thank God for that as kids really need it!!!), yet when it comes to grown up reaching secular "entertainment" we have a problem because the things that people are interested seeing are not what we believe should be produced. Our understanding of "clean stuff" really somehow avoids the realities of life that are inseparable part of honest story telling. We use Paul's advice to put our minds on the "clean things" as an excuse to avoid reality. Yet, as I've said... Bible is full of these violent to the point of pornographic realities.

We don't have to go over the top, but as an example you would not expect a secular soldier who has been shot to say "Ouch". You would expect him to swear . Just a small example. So either we make films with no real conflict, or we lie and portray the reality the way it is NOT. Or we can make a great film that will teach people something about human nature and what Christ can do to remedy it. I'm hoping to produce such a film soon if Lord permits... and I think that theatre (or theater... if you are American) is the book media of today. I think we should take advantage of it and make movies the way we want them to be, and not complain about movies that we disapprove of... what do you expect from the unbelievers... to make Godly movies???

Yet until that day comes, my humble advice for you and your children to stay away from movie theater.

[olger]

Excellent post.

I've noticed that television & movies de-sensitize a person. We choose to not have television in our home.

I tell people, "We can't afford one"

og

[Woody]

Excellent post.

I've noticed that television & movies de-sensitize a person. We choose to not have television in our home.

I tell people, "We can't afford one"

og

Have you ever experienced a movie theater Olger?

[olger]

Hi Red. Sure have, in my teenage rebellious years.

After Christ, no.

OG

(Also put a roof on a couple of them, but I don't believe that counts )

[Woody]

Quote:

I think we should take advantage of it and make movies the way we want them to be, and not complain about movies that we disapprove of... what do you expect from the unbelievers... to make Godly movies???

I am excited to hear that you are in the film industry. I agree with what you have said. We do need Christians in this industry.

I first became convinced with this a few years ago when I read the book 'Roaring Lambs' by Bob Briner. Not SDA but good Christian author on this very issue.

Let me quote some snippets ...

Quote:

"Keeping Christ bottled up in the churches is keeping salt in the shakers, and He does not go where we do not take Him. We need to take Him everywhere and show his relevance and the relevance of His Word to every aspect of modern life."

"Christians must penetrate key areas of culture to have a preserving effect." p.38

Quote:

" We who follow Jesus Christ are to be a 'moral disinfectant' stopping the spread of evil".

To do that, we must be in that community. We must be a part of that community. We cannnot be much of a 'moral disinfectant' from afar." p.39

Quote:

"Believe me, I'm dead serious about this business of cleaning up movies by joining rather than fighting the industry". p.89

Praise God ... you are doing just what he is talking about.

Being in the industry ... I do hope you will get this book. It is very inspiring for Christians to get in and DO something rather than just locking ourselves in homes or churches .

[olger]

Who would be 'a person'?

[aldona]

Quote:

Abstaining from eating out of a garbage can will indeed result in more health.

Needs context, many people are kept alive by eating from the garbage. To not eat out of it , means death. I reckon some people might have a problem with that, but everyone gets a choice. Since the above quote does not seem to deal with the content of my post we will now....

So, to extend the analogy...what we should be aiming for is:

1. Those of us who have a choice - to abstain from eating out of a garbage can.

2. To assist those among our neighbors who have no choice, by making available to them better sources of food, so they no longer have to eat out of the garbage can.

aldona